Code Geass R2 - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[Crusader]

Bismark defeated... inconcievable! Impossible... not unexpected though. He served his purpose i suppose, and Suzaku was destined to defeat him. Sort of reminds me of gundam wing, when Trieze beat wufei in a sword duel and towards the end wufei killed Trieze in mobile suit combat. (even thought mr Kushrenada allowed it.)

Where the fudge is Nonette? With the way the others were handled i kind of hope that she don't show up to get killed.

What does interest me now, is Nunally's role. To all who said she was dead, looks like they were wrong. Now thats funny to me! so funny i can't stop laughing har har har! What amuses me more, is what Lelouch will do now, since his actions were for his dear sister. Could it be she found out he killed thier mother dearest and daddy dearest? Who knows, but it will be interesting indeed.

[prototype_sky]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Screw that. Lelouch has NO more traits that I can really look at that can be written off now. He totally went into "Stalin Mode" on us. He wants to be a dictator, and you know, that is nonsense. What he has isn't democracy, it is SOCIALISM. That doesn't change problems, that causes MORE problems.

Well technically it still is he just brainwashed or forced the majority which is what all democracies do anyway. He's just has a fool proof brainwashing method

It would be so awesome if Lulu had actually geass all of the key BK before hand to obey him once they heard a key phrase or hand sign like he did with gilford

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Well quite obviously I think there is much more to his motives then just this, and as for manipulation if what he's trying to do is what most of us suspect he's trying to do then you might as well do it to its full extent am I right? It isn't something that can just be half-assed if you actually want to see such a goal accomplished

I don't CARE what more he has planned. I don't CARE about the end result. The fact is, he is going to be worse than Britannia before him. He wants the world, and he is causing A LOT of pain to get that. Results be DAMNED. Results aren't everything and Lelouch has gone crazy officially now. I guess the truth about his mother and father may have pushed him a little TOO far over the edge... "Stalouch" is in serious shit now.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Uhh, the point where we're actually near the end and it all comes to fruition at last if I may interject?

Yeah when they finally went **** it, get that sledgehammer and pound it in.

[LiteraryFlux]

In regards to Dorothea and Monica, I was under the assumption that they were inside their own custom frames. Each Knight was supposed to be accompanied by their own personal troops, thus the shot of Bismarck being surrounded by Sutherlands that were likely his escort.
It can't be assumed that the pilots flanking him were the Rounds pilots just because they were there. After all, the Tristan was nowhere in that shot.

When Dorothea and Monica were killed, the shots were almost exclusively cockpit centered. Any footage of the Knightmares they were piloting merely showed unrecognizeable shrapnel. They could've been incredibly powerful Knightmares going along with the King Arthur mythos like the other Rounds members, but they were going to be just like everyone else against the Albion.

Dorothea? From a logical standpoint, it would've made zero sense for the Albion to target her specifically for his first shot prior to his Energy Wing volley if she were in some random Sutherland. It is more reasonable that she was in a custom frame that was easily identified and she was eliminated by Suzaku first. In her defense, she had no idea she was up against the Albion when it was a solitary unit and she was caught unprepared.

Monica? She was able to survive the Energy Wing volley. From what can be gathered from the footage, all of the escorts were destroyed and Suzaku had to fly the Albion point blank to take her out. If she survived all those blasts inside a Sutherland, she deserves her elite pilot status. After she was taken out, only two Knightmares remained in the skies and they could be argued as having advantages that Monica and Dorothea didn't have.

Tristan? The only reason Gino wasn't immediately destroyed like the rest is likely because out of all the Rounds, he seemed to have an honest friendship with Suzaku. That didn't stop him from being Spinzaku kicked into the ground and doing little but causing Suzaku to drop his rifles. Ace pilot or fodder?

Galahad? It has the Knight of One inside. He's supposed to be the superior to the rest and he has a Geass that can see into the future. All he manages to do is tie Suzaku up and fling him once. He's in the Galahad with the Excalibur and he can look into the future and he doesn't even scratch Albion's paint job. Ace pilot or fodder?

Don't say things are sexist just because two barely visible characters got killed in the blink of an eye against the debut of the upgraded version of one of the show's primary mecha. Even the Valkyrie argument seems flimsy considering Kallen killed them and last I checked, she was female. The last of the Todou's Holy Swords that's still alive? Chiba. If Anya had fought the Albion in her Mordred, she'd have put up a fight and then jobbed for the Albion just like everyone else.

[ScudFace]

What are u people talking about?? This show has nothing to do with communism/socialism. As far as I can tell Lelouch is running under the totalitarian system with no real ideology except absolute power.

[Bloodseeker]

Monica.

She and Bismark shouldn't have gotten the fodder treatment.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Orga777

I don't CARE what more he has planned. I don't CARE about the end result. The fact is, he is going to be worse than Britannia before him. He wants the world, and he is causing A LOT of pain to get that. Results be DAMNED. Results aren't everything and Lelouch has gone crazy officially now. I guess the truth about his mother and father may have pushed him a little TOO far over the edge... "Stalouch" is in serious shit now.

Well, the thing I always try to remember is, Lelouch is the hero of this story and as such I have faith in the ends he is trying to achieve. You can't say the results aren't worth it until the results actually occur am I right? That's just being too judgmental and as for his methods, I think so far I haven't seen him do anything too bad to warrant dismissing what he is aiming for just yet, but that's just me I guess

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Yeah when they finally went **** it, get that sledgehammer and pound it in.

About god damn time too, we only have a couple episodes left as is you know?

Originally Posted by ScudFace

What are u people talking about?? This show has nothing to do with communism/socialism. As far as I can tell Lelouch is running under the totalitarian system with no real ideology except absolute power.

Absolute power isn't necessarily bad, at least according to Yang Wenli if you watch Legends of Galactic heroes and he was one of the staunchest advocates for democracy and freedom as well

[El_Lazy_Mexican]

Fascism anyone?

btw @ Orga, just a correction but Mussolini was a FASCIST not a socialist

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by El_Lazy_Mexican

Fascism anyone?

btw @ Orga, just a correction but Mussolini was a FASCIST not a socialist

Legends of Galactic Heroes people, go watch and be amazed. Go Reinhar- I mean Lelouch!! And Sieg-Suzaku as well I guess

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by El_Lazy_Mexican

Fascism anyone?

btw @ Orga, just a correction but Mussolini was a FASCIST not a socialist

Indeed you are right. Good catch.

[Vito]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Okay "Comrade." Why don't we ask the Soviet Union how well THAT went over? Lets see, we have Stalin mass-murdering his own people, had mass oppression all over the country, and so on. Oh, and guess what? HITLER considered himself a Socialist. So, you fail.

No, you fail for invoking Godwin's law, bringing a misguided political theory into a thread about an episode of anime with giant robots.
Simply saying: socialism = Stalin & Hitler is .... well retarded to say the least.

[gsx r]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Really now? You are very, very wrong. Socialism is more than just Communism. Just ask, you know, Hiter. He hated Communism, but he was most definitely a Socialist. Same with Mussolini, and most other Dictators.

In a few posts, you've shown that you have little understanding of what communism and socialism really are. Not just in principle and real-world use from history but also the idealogy behind both.

Not trying to be mean here, but just don't go around calling someone else wrong when you yourself are also out of the know.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by LiteraryFlux

In regards to Dorothea and Monica, I was under the assumption that they were inside their own custom frames. Each Knight was supposed to be accompanied by their own personal troops, thus the shot of Bismarck being surrounded by Sutherlands that were likely his escort.
It can't be assumed that the pilots flanking him were the Rounds pilots just because they were there. After all, the Tristan was nowhere in that shot.

When Dorothea and Monica were killed, the shots were almost exclusively cockpit centered. Any footage of the Knightmares they were piloting merely showed unrecognizeable shrapnel. They could've been incredibly powerful Knightmares going along with the King Arthur mythos like the other Rounds members, but they were going to be just like everyone else against the Albion.

They couldn't have been in their own Frames. Dorothea, when killed, is right next to Bismarck. He was flanked by Sutherlands, and similarly every unit in sight was a Sutherland. Gino came out from way behind the pack to attack Suzaku.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Still how is holding all the UFN leaders hostage ideal for rallying everyone to beat them? If it's not tyranny then what is it?

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Still how is holding all the UFN leaders hostage ideal for rallying everyone to beat them? If it's not tyranny then what is it?

Uhh, how was it not? Most people don't like it when their leaders are being held hostage if I recall

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Vito

No, you fail for invoking Godwin's law, bringing a misguided political theory into a thread about an episode of anime with giant robots.
Simply saying: socialism = Stalin & Hitler is .... well retarded to say the least.

Meh. That is your view. But I know Socialism (same with Fascism) doesn't work. History has taught us this time and time again. And how Lelouch is going about things, will not work. He went from trying to install a world Democracy as Zero, to a world Dictatorship as Emperor. Hell... maybe that title "Emperor of Britannia" just does that to people or something...

That is how I see things. Since, you know, I am most definitely pro-democracy.

[El_Lazy_Mexican]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Still how is holding all the UFN leaders hostage ideal for rallying everyone to beat them? If it's not tyranny then what is it?

*Refers to Turn9*

Lelouch: GIVE ME WHAT I WANT OR THE LOLI GETS IT!
*points gun to loli*

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Uhh, how was it not? Most people don't like it when their leaders are being held hostage if I recall

But they can't make a move against them because they have all the leaders hostage. Also if he wanted to piss everyone off he'd just kill the leaders right then and there. Not only that, he asked to be leader of the UFN.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Still how is holding all the UFN leaders hostage ideal for rallying everyone to beat them? If it's not tyranny then what is it?

Efficiency

Also if he wanted to piss everyone off he'd just kill the leaders right then and there.

Impossible, he needs them for the voting process and to run their countries.

If he kills them then someone else takes their place and he'll have to start over again.