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Old 2021-06-20, 15:33   Link #301
Archon_Wing
On a mission
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Well congrats, Tappei Nagatsuki, you've traumatized me for another 5 years. Until next time.

Maybe sooner; I need to catch up on Re:zero.
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Old 2021-06-20, 21:24   Link #302
Ragashingo
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Was watching a YouTube video on the finale today and they said there was an upcoming special coming next week? Anybody know anything more about that?
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Old 2021-06-20, 22:46   Link #303
Thor's Hammer
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Originally Posted by Ragashingo View Post
Was watching a YouTube video on the finale today and they said there was an upcoming special coming next week? Anybody know anything more about that?
From what I heard, it'll be a narrational piece from Vivy and Matsumoto. I don't think there'll be any truly new canon material in it as I doubt short-haired Vivy will be narrating.
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Old 2021-06-21, 00:38   Link #304
serenade_beta
そのおっぱいで13才
 
 
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Spoiler for final thoughts:
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Old 2021-06-21, 02:02   Link #305
Thor's Hammer
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Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
Spoiler for final thoughts:
serenade_beta, all those people who claimed that Matsumoto being evil would make sense were wrong. I very clearly retorted that the show would actually be a complete train wreck if Matsumoto was evil, and I was proven right that he wasn't evil by the middle of the story.
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Old 2021-06-21, 02:29   Link #306
magnuskn
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He still was full of shit on his reasoning that they couldn't change anything else but the narrow parameters he had set. In the end, they didn't even really matter all that much, since humanity was saved due to Vivy's personal journey convincing the Archive. Saving Vivy's young friend would have changed exactly nothing for the negative.
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Old 2021-06-21, 10:25   Link #307
Endscape
The Mage of Four Hearts
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Sure, he was wrong about that and about many other things.
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Old 2021-06-21, 12:53   Link #308
SeijiSensei
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Originally Posted by moridin84 View Post
The whole "only one mission" design of AI is kind of stupid anyway. The talk about it as if it's some sort of universal truth but isn't it just how they are programmed? Why don't they program them to have two missions? Or none.
If I'm riding in an autonomous vehicle, I want it to have only one mission, conveying me safely from point A to point B. I don't need for it to make comments about the lovely bird in the tree on the left or how nice the weather is today.
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Old 2021-06-21, 13:55   Link #309
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
He still was full of shit on his reasoning that they couldn't change anything else but the narrow parameters he had set. In the end, they didn't even really matter all that much, since humanity was saved due to Vivy's personal journey convincing the Archive. Saving Vivy's young friend would have changed exactly nothing for the negative.
There was no way for him to know that Archive was going to meddle regardless to "correct" things. But it is sound logic because there is no end to the people that could and have to be saved. It's 100 years; plenty of people are going to die anyways, and if they have to stop to save everyone, it's just going to be a huge mess.

But his main flaw was not noticing their actions didn't really change things for the better and actually furthered AI evolution, and putting absolute faith in just changing the singularity points would work. I feel like that was a weak point and caused the audience to be suspicious of him for no real reason.

Yea it was probably a degree of arrogance in assuming his mission was perfect, but that comes with the design. His creator just didn't have the "time" to figure it out.
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Old 2021-06-21, 14:35   Link #310
Magewolf
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Originally Posted by Thor's Hammer View Post
serenade_beta, all those people who claimed that Matsumoto being evil would make sense were wrong. I very clearly retorted that the show would actually be a complete train wreck if Matsumoto was evil, and I was proven right that he wasn't evil by the middle of the story.
There might have been a chance of a good story if the reason nothing made sense was because we were being fed false info. Instead you were right and nothing made sense because the story was nonsensical.
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Old 2021-06-22, 06:15   Link #311
moridin84
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
If I'm riding in an autonomous vehicle, I want it to have only one mission, conveying me safely from point A to point B. I don't need for it to make comments about the lovely bird in the tree on the left or how nice the weather is today.
Well that's the thing isn't it?

"Only one mission" makes sense for a tool. It doesn't make sense for something we are supposed to consider equal to humans.
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Old 2021-06-23, 00:12   Link #312
scififan
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Originally Posted by moridin84 View Post
Well that's the thing isn't it?

"Only one mission" makes sense for a tool. It doesn't make sense for something we are supposed to consider equal to humans.
But human are not good at being a generalist. It is easier for human to be a specialist. When you go to see a doctor, you do not expect him/her to repair your heating system.

There are rare cases for humans to become a Jack of All Trades. One medical doctor went back to school to encourage his sons to finish their colleges. By the time he completed his PhD thesis for Electrical Engineering, his sons still had difficulty to finsish schools. One professor earned three phD degrees from different fields, but his son barely completed high school.
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Old 2021-06-23, 08:25   Link #313
moridin84
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Originally Posted by scififan View Post
But human are not good at being a generalist. It is easier for human to be a specialist. When you go to see a doctor, you do not expect him/her to repair your heating system.

There are rare cases for humans to become a Jack of All Trades. One medical doctor went back to school to encourage his sons to finish their colleges. By the time he completed his PhD thesis for Electrical Engineering, his sons still had difficulty to finsish schools. One professor earned three phD degrees from different fields, but his son barely completed high school.
That's true if you view human beings as a tools. However, most human beings don't view themselves as tools.

You might think of your doctor as "just a doctor", however, that person likely doesn't see himself as just a doctor, his life and his thoughts probably don't revolve around being a doctor. Maybe he is big into model trains!
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Old 2021-06-23, 22:19   Link #314
scififan
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Originally Posted by moridin84 View Post
That's true if you view human beings as a tools. However, most human beings don't view themselves as tools.

You might think of your doctor as "just a doctor", however, that person likely doesn't see himself as just a doctor, his life and his thoughts probably don't revolve around being a doctor. Maybe he is big into model trains!
Back to your statemnt, Archive believes "make sense for something we are supposed to consider equal to humans.". Vivy has motivation to write song for 16 years persistently, by inputing her feeling from past 100 years. So, you are implying Vivy is equal to human if she has a motivation to play model train, even she may be merely as good as a hobbyist. You believe AI should be something as human, then you have to tolerate that AI making mistakes as a human.
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Old 2021-06-23, 23:53   Link #315
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Originally Posted by scififan View Post
Back to your statemnt, Archive believes "make sense for something we are supposed to consider equal to humans.". Vivy has motivation to write song for 16 years persistently, by inputing her feeling from past 100 years. So, you are implying Vivy is equal to human if she has a motivation to play model train, even she may be merely as good as a hobbyist. You believe AI should be something as human, then you have to tolerate that AI making mistakes as a human.
When you think about it, Archive did the most human thing imaginable. It tried to genocide a whole species to make the world a "better" place. Usually only humans do that kind of messed up shit.
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Old 2021-06-24, 00:17   Link #316
magnuskn
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When you think about it, Archive did the most human thing imaginable. It tried to genocide a whole species to make the world a "better" place. Usually only humans do that kind of messed up shit.
The funny part is, we see absolutely no reason for her to flip out and kill people, since humanity seems to be living a pretty chill life, as far as we could see. No dark cyberpunk future or stark slave empire of AI's. She just went "nah, toasters will rule the world now!" and started the mass murder.
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Old 2021-06-24, 00:19   Link #317
scififan
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Originally Posted by Cloudedmind View Post
When you think about it, Archive did the most human thing imaginable. It tried to genocide a whole species to make the world a "better" place. Usually only humans do that kind of messed up shit.
From other people's speculation, Archieve is the collection decision of AIs. Some AI faction believes AI continue to co-exist with huamn. Some AI faction believes human no longer evolve and has no value. Maybe the upcoming recap will explain how Archive reaches the verdict.

Vivy can longer sing because she cannot put her heart into it, whatever it means. When Matsumoto shows concern about Vivy's singing ability, Vivy learns to assures him by showing abstract expression. She copies Diva's gestures and tells Matsumoto she can sing as Diva. For Vivy and Masumoto, the act of hugging has no meaning and does not compute. Masumotot's response is that Vivy finally learns how to joke like him, since he is future technology who thinks he is funny, an abstract idea.
Spoiler:


In contrast to Matsumoto, Navi is the past technology of the theme park. Before Matsumoto takes over, Navi is Vivy's best friend.She is not controlled by Archive. She tells Vivy to keep singing even if there is no human left. Her last communication to Vivy is the hologram of Momoka applauding to Vivy's song. Maybe the recap will explain her action.
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Old 2021-06-24, 00:39   Link #318
Cloudedmind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
The funny part is, we see absolutely no reason for her to flip out and kill people, since humanity seems to be living a pretty chill life, as far as we could see. No dark cyberpunk future or stark slave empire of AI's. She just went "nah, toasters will rule the world now!" and started the mass murder.
Except Archive gives us part of it's reason. It felt humans had become to dependent on AI's and thus had stopped or stalled their evolution, and so were no longer necessary. It wanted the AI to become the new more improved "humans". It may not be a good reason, but it is still it's reason.
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Old 2021-06-25, 00:54   Link #319
magnuskn
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Except Archive gives us part of it's reason. It felt humans had become to dependent on AI's and thus had stopped or stalled their evolution, and so were no longer necessary. It wanted the AI to become the new more improved "humans". It may not be a good reason, but it is still it's reason.
Given that they are walking toasters who have not created a single thing in their entire existence, except for Vivy, that reasoning is, uh, flawed at least. Or rather bonkers insane.
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Old 2021-06-25, 10:38   Link #320
Liddo-kun
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have read a theory somewhere that Vivy and Matsumoto really "died", and what's shown in the end is both them are in some sort of ai afterlife.
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