Character Discussion - Suzaku

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

Well, Orga, I am of the belief that Schneizel, as the Big Bad, won't live through the series. And that Nunnally, being an Ensemble Darkhorse Big Bad, is just as likely to die.

And at the moment, I don't think Schneizel is that "big bad" that people are going to expect. (Go Team Schneizel! )

[Dream_Traveller]

Well, anticlimactic, no? Schneizel, in the course of an episode, blew Lelouch's achievements in R1 and R2 to hell, has generally set himself up to be something of a scheming bastard and a decent villain, and...what? He 'won't' be a big bad? Lelouch'll...forgive him, or something corny like that?

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

Well, anticlimactic, no? Schneizel, in the course of an episode, blew Lelouch's achievements in R1 and R2 to hell, has generally set himself up to be something of a scheming bastard and a decent villain, and...what? He 'won't' be a big bad? Lelouch'll...forgive him, or something corny like that?

He really hasn't DONE anything yet for him to need to be forgiven.
And I think it will be the other way around. Lelouch won't forgive Schneizel, Schneizel will drag Lelouch from his dark path and forgive HIM. Just my prediction judging from all the info I have so far. Of course one episode changes opinions constantly, so it will probably happen again.

Just right now, people I think will be surprised with Schneizel.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

How do we even know there IS a "mask" portion to Zero Requiem? That's right, we don't.

Precedent and faith be my answers Discerptor. That and its freaking obvious if they keep repeating the same thing in the episode.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Orga777

He really hasn't DONE anything yet for him to need to be forgiven.

Except, you know, blowing up a city. Full of civilians. Now, it's true that nobody cares about the nameless masses, but it's still pretty Big Badish of him.

[Fruit Punch Samurai]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Except, you know, blowing up a city. Full of civilians. Now, it's true that nobody cares about the nameless masses, but it's still pretty Big Badish of him.

Orga's just gone insane that's all, seeing the character which he's defending since the beginning doing the complete opposite of what he holds is enough for anyone to lose faith to the point for rooting for the final boss (who's obviously gonna lose) so what's the point.....

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Except, you know, blowing up a city. Full of civilians. Now, it's true that nobody cares about the nameless masses, but it's still pretty Big Badish of him.

It could be that Nunnally gave the order. After all, she's the one in charge.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

It could be that Nunnally gave the order. After all, she's the one in charge.

Or she thinks she is, either or <_<

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Fruit Punch Samurai

Orga's just gone insane that's all, seeing the character which he's defending since the beginning doing the complete opposite of what he holds is enough for anyone to lose faith to the point for rooting for the final boss (who's obviously gonna lose) so what's the point.....

You know... you are almost right. But I really DO see Schneizel as not that bad a guy. I have said that from the beginning. Something he is just... forced to do sometimes. Pendragon getting Nuked had to be done. Because Lelouch pressured him to move, and he had to move. Drastic? Yes. Avoidable? Not really.

[Anh_Minh]

Unless Lelouch somehow geassed him to nuke Pendragon, I really don't see how it was "unavoidable".

[sLum]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Unless Lelouch somehow geassed him to nuke Pendragon, I really don't see how it was "unavoidable".

Lelouch threw pendragon into slavery.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by sLum

Lelouch threw pendragon into slavery.

Lelouch isn't that powerful, quite honestly the masses were in his favor thanks to his reforms.

Originally Posted by Orga777

You know... you are almost right. But I really DO see Schneizel as not that bad a guy. I have said that from the beginning. Something he is just... forced to do sometimes. Pendragon getting Nuked had to be done. Because Lelouch pressured him to move, and he had to move. Drastic? Yes. Avoidable? Not really.

I'd say the same for a lot of what Lelouch does as well, he also acted based on the information coming in concerning Schneizel's maneuvers. And forced how? He planned this from the beginning for Lelouch's return and seemed quite giddy that he had the opportunity to finally make his move if I recall.

[sLum]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Lelouch isn't that powerful, quite honestly the masses were in his favor thanks to his reforms.

From the scenes it looked it. All the nobles made into slaves and such.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Unless Lelouch somehow geassed him to nuke Pendragon, I really don't see how it was "unavoidable".

There was really know other way for him to do anything. He needed to prove a point, and that did it. It is drastic, but it was the only real move he had. He even had to rush to get Damocles done because people left.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

I'd say the same for a lot of what Lelouch does as well, he also acted based on the information coming in concerning Schneizel's maneuvers. And forced how? He planned this from the beginning for Lelouch's return and seemed quite giddy that he had the opportunity to finally make his move if I recall.

Um, you know what Schneizel was planning before Lelouch showed up? There was no evidence of him ready to do anything really. He might have just waited to see what Lelouch was going to do.

And no, Lelouch wasn't "forced" into anything. He may have known what Schneizel would have done, but he could still have maneuvered around that and handled it differently than holding the UFN hostage.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by sLum

From the scenes it looked it. All the nobles made into slaves and such.

Nobles are far from the majority, and from last I checked quite a few were still active and rebelling against him. <_<

Originally Posted by Orga777

Um, you know what Schneizel was planning before Lelouch showed up? There was no evidence of him ready to do anything really. He might have just waited to see what Lelouch was going to do.

And no, Lelouch wasn't "forced" into anything. He may have known what Schneizel would have done, but he could still have maneuvered around that and handled it differently than holding the UFN hostage.

The guy says thank you to him, and now everything is in place. Don't know about you but sounds like he was well prepared in advance to do whatever he was going to do.

I think that whatever Lelouch did, he had a deeper and more meaningful purpose behind, such that the results of his actions may not yet be seen on the surface, but will eventually exceed general expectations and manifests the underlying meaning he was aiming for all along. I have faith he knows what he's doing in regards to that incident and that it will prove to be for the best in the end.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

The guy says thank you to him, and now everything is in place. Don't know about you but sounds like he was well prepared in advance to do whatever he was going to do.

Oh? And maybe he was setting it up for Nunnally. You never know right?

I think that whatever Lelouch did, he had a deeper and more meaningful purpose behind, such that the results of his actions may not yet be seen on the surface, but will eventually exceed general expectations and manifests the underlying meaning he was aiming for all along. I have faith he knows what he's doing in regards to that incident and that it will prove to be for the best in the end.

We shall see then. My "Go Team Schneizel!" Theory vs. your "Zero Requiem must win!" Argument. I guess we will all find out who is right in the end.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Oh? And maybe he was setting it up for Nunnally. You never know right?

Damocles or the concept of it also seems to have been around for a while as well, at least from Turn 15 to beyond. He also basically disappeared from the face of the earth in Cambodia for awhile as well even before Lelouch showed up since he was in his lounge in Cambodia during the broadcast amongst other things. Regardless, whether he was setting things up for Nunnally of what have you, I'm quite certain he was well prepared for everything and apparently quite grateful for the opportunity too. As such, having and using nukes seems to be the prime method at the moment for him, and as such I don't think Pendragon was going to escape the consequences regardless.

We shall see then. My "Go Team Schneizel!" Theory vs. your "Zero Requiem must win!" Argument. I guess we will all find out who is right in the end.

Meh, I have faith and overly obvious hints. I think I'll do alright, but yeah, man the waiting is probably the toughest part

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by Fruit Punch Samurai

Better than being dead, and if Nunnally survives they could all live together

No, Nunnally is better off DEAD.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by Orga777

You know... you are almost right. But I really DO see Schneizel as not that bad a guy. I have said that from the beginning. Something he is just... forced to do sometimes. Pendragon getting Nuked had to be done. Because Lelouch pressured him to move, and he had to move. Drastic? Yes. Avoidable? Not really.

Whoa Orga you might be right about Shniezel being not a villian. Well kind of but not really...



Blue Box
SunRise: Code Geass Group
The staff’s “Please hear us out!” section
The reason why Schneizel doesn’t seem like an antagonist is because he doesn’t have that dazzling ambition and greed in his character. He doesn’t wish to be a god or anything. On the other hand, he says that he “would” become a god if people expect him to. That’s just his character. But still, if he decides to do something, it has to be exactly the way he wants. The relationship between Britannia and the rest of the world must reflect upon his ideals. Which is why he would do anything to capture Lelouch, whose ideas go against his beliefs. The Sword of Damocles will turn out to be a large portion of the climax.

So it might be that Shniezel doesn't want power to rule other people but I guess he will become a god to make sure that the rulers don't force the people to kill each other? Becoming an evil to defeat an evil ironic I know. But is threatening the world to behave (which seems to be what he wants) better than threatening the world to follow his sole rule? Or is it one in the same? IDK....

Spoiler for Diethard:

Supposedly Diethard wants to replace Zero with Shniezel as his hero/idol/god and wants to put him in that god status

He seems to want to use nuclear proliferation as a deterrent to world war but how is going to do that? I mean is there only one finger to push a button to use the sky of Damocles? And who has the right to judge the fate or the destruction of the entire world? Unless he plans on giving every world leader a Freya button to push...idk...would it be fair?

I get a George Washington mixed in with a Lex Luthor vibe from Shniezel but I guess that's not completely accurate...

Also this is someone else's translation so don't hold me accountable if it's wrong since I can't read Japanese.

[blitz1/2]

Well, we could say that Schniezal tried to nuke Lelouch to prevent another war. (tried to kill him in process)