Why is Gundam Seed Destiny so controversial?

[Lolipopo]

What caused GSD to fail ?

-Shinn
-Stellar
-Shinn
-Lacus
-Shinn...

Ok more seriously, I'll say the fact that Kira was God-Like, that Athrun did the same mistakes that before (Seriously Athrun...seriously !), that even though Cagalli's way to be was understable (18, the girl is only 18.) she could have wake up kinda early (Though for Episode 40, I forgive her that), that Shinn was douche for the whole serie, that it was a failed remake of Seed and all the others gundam, That the Archangel is the ship of the truth and when people come here, everything is fabulous, that Lunamaria was finally there for nothing while she was firstly interesting, the whole Shinn/Luna fiasco (WTF ?), the fact that Lacus became Darth Vader at the end, the fact that Cagalli take off her ring (AZERTYUIJHGHJK !), the fact that Athrun is leaving with Meyrin at the end (Ok I know Asucaga is still the truth but still !) the fact that Stellar didn't know more than 5 words, the fact that Auel was there for nothing, the fact that the masked man was...., the fact that I loved Seed and was thinking GSD would be fabulous...and so on.

Anyway, thanks to the fabulous OST, I'm still thankful for the serie (Yeah yeah, the OST was fabulous)Oh and I'm an Akatsuki fangirl thus, Episode 40 FUCK YES !

[FruitsPunchSamurai]

Things SEED did right: Reintroduce people to the Gundam franchise after it's "derailment" in the 90s (don't get me wrong, I love G, X, Turn A, and Victory, but the 90s was kind of a lost decade for Gundam, cause only G and Wing really caught on, espically with Turn A not being apprciated at all during the time it came out). Attracting a new, younger audience to Gundam, which it needed, cause seriously, as much as UC fanboys want to complain, they are a niche group and Bandai can't make all their money by pumping out more One Year War sidestories and whatnot. SEED also used a lot of mainstream music which was a first for the franchise and has stayed with it ever since (also started the whole change the op every 13 episodes thing you see in shows like FMA, Blood+, 00, any show that was in that Timeslot basically).

The focus on character relationship drama also got a lot of people (girls in particular) who normally wouldn't be interested in a mech show into it, and despite what the purists will say, that was a smart move. Unfortunatly though, Cosmic Era has kind of painted itself into a corner with Destiny and it will most likely never really get out of that, despite how good Stargazer was, the main appeal of Cosmic Era gundam is the characters and if they were to do a timejump or something and try to wash their hands of Kira and friends, it probably wouldn't go down as well. But yeah, that's my 2 cents.

[StratoSpear]

Originally Posted by FruitsPunchSamurai

Things SEED did right: Reintroduce people to the Gundam franchise after it's "derailment" in the 90s (don't get me wrong, I love G, X, Turn A, and Victory, but the 90s was kind of a lost decade for Gundam, cause only G and Wing really caught on, espically with Turn A not being apprciated at all during the time it came out). Attracting a new, younger audience to Gundam, which it needed, cause seriously, as much as UC fanboys want to complain, they are a niche group and Bandai can't make all their money by pumping out more One Year War sidestories and whatnot. SEED also used a lot of mainstream music which was a first for the franchise and has stayed with it ever since (also started the whole change the op every 13 episodes thing you see in shows like FMA, Blood+, 00, any show that was in that Timeslot basically).

The focus on character relationship drama also got a lot of people (girls in particular) who normally wouldn't be interested in a mech show into it, and despite what the purists will say, that was a smart move. Unfortunatly though, Cosmic Era has kind of painted itself into a corner with Destiny and it will most likely never really get out of that, despite how good Stargazer was, the main appeal of Cosmic Era gundam is the characters and if they were to do a timejump or something and try to wash their hands of Kira and friends, it probably wouldn't go down as well. But yeah, that's my 2 cents.

For once, your 2 cents is somewhat sensible.

But people like me, it's kindda hard for us to understand character development since the only thing I crave for in Gundam shows are 10-foot mechas flying around my 20" screen, whacking and blasting the crap out of each other... At least I'm being honest.


Perhaps 00 can make a diff in that sector... Since I'm starting to dig the character's development.

[setsunafseiei]

well for me i think it failed because they bring back jesus yamato back and his gay friend athrun , they totally need to make them dead or something at least this way make them legend or something. Instead by making them alive make the suppose to be main character ended up being a side character ...2nd too much emo stuff wtf is up with emo crying scene makes me wanna puke , its okay if its like 1 or 2 episode but wtf drag on too the ending ..3rd omg wtf bbq u gotta stop with the gattai design power rangers combine thing ...totally bullshit for me, 4th they should at least tell about the gundam origin whos the inventor and the history why is it been built and why is it own by two factions

[KaiDamien]

Guess i'm one of those people who find GSD okay, 50/50 .

Originally Posted by setsunafseiei

4th they should at least tell about the gundam origin whos the inventor and the history why is it been built and why is it own by two factions

You must have hated 90% of the gundam series. They did explain part of it.

[StratoSpear]

I have to agree with a few of setsunafseiei's points

Kira was initially planned to die by the end of SEED. Had they done so, then the term "Legendary Freedom" would have a greater impact on the series.

The way I see it, it's safe to assume that half the casts in GSD sees the "Legendary Freedom" as the "Annoying Freedom" instead. Kira should have only appeared for the last few episodes GSD instead of stealing the show halfway thru.

Instead of being a baddie, Shinn should have at least come to his senses earlier instead of wrecking his 49-episode development... He would have fared better as a good guy. Though i'm still glad that Shinn realised his mistakes during the end of Final Plus.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by FruitsPunchSamurai

The focus on character relationship drama also got a lot of people (girls in particular) who normally wouldn't be interested in a mech show into it, and despite what the purists will say, that was a smart move.

This was definitely one of the big draws for me as well. I do hope though that the creators can make more of the Cosmic Era universe than just leaving it as Lacus and friends' playground. There's too much potential to just waste like that.

Originally Posted by setsunafseiei

3rd omg wtf bbq u gotta stop with the gattai design power rangers combine thing ...totally bullshit for me

What are you talking about - Impulse? I'm not all that fond of Impulse myself, but they've been doing something similar in something like half the Gundam shows. I can't see how that can detract from a show to any great degree.

Originally Posted by setsunafseiei

4th they should at least tell about the gundam origin whos the inventor and the history why is it been built and why is it own by two factions

Why? In universe, "Gundam" is just a nickname, with no significance attached to it. The word itself is spoken only perhaps ten times over the course of 100 episodes.

Originally Posted by StratoSpear

Instead of being a baddie, Shinn should have at least come to his senses earlier instead of wrecking his 49-episode development... He would have fared better as a good guy. Though i'm still glad that Shinn realised his mistakes during the end of Final Plus.

Even if Shinn's character was portrayed more positively, he would still have ended up at the same spot. I've heard that the very first thing that the creators thought up when planning the series was that scene of Shinn crying in Lunamaria's arms. It's a very plausible detail, so I'll go with it until I hear otherwise.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Even if Shinn's character was portrayed more positively, he would still have ended up at the same spot. I've heard that the very first thing that the creators thought up when planning the series was that scene of Shinn crying in Lunamaria's arms. It's a very plausible detail, so I'll go with it until I hear otherwise.

Is that a problem though? If Shinn's character had been more likeable and his reasons for supporting Dullindal more compelling, it would have at least made his confrontations with Kira/Athrun that much more powerful. Instead it basically became a "root-for-the-good-guys" thing for most people who watch the show.

But then again, had Shinn's character been more likeable that would have created much more hate for Kira & co., so I understand the creators not wanting to go that direction...

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by brightman

Is that a problem though? If Shinn's character had been more likeable and his reasons for supporting Dullindal more compelling, it would have at least made his confrontations with Kira/Athrun that much more powerful. Instead it basically became a "root-for-the-good-guys" thing for most people who watch the show.

But then again, had Shinn's character been more likeable that would have created much more hate for Kira & co., so I understand the creators not wanting to go that direction...

I think that what happened was that the creators wanted to stick to their guns with the ending despite how very difficult it was to pull off, and that the key to all of this was to have Shinn fight for the losing side. Since this is Gundam, the losing side had to be the bad guys, and so Shinn had to help them unwittingly. The other side of the coin is that what they were trying to do with his character was to start off with a somewhat hostile mindset that grows to become more compassionate. Where they failed was that they tried to do so by using his relationship with Stellar to pull that off.

When that didn't work, I see most of the rest of the work being to salvage his character as much as they could. This was probably one of the main causes for creative differences on the show. And even here, I give the creative staff props for working with what they had wrought rather than just arbitrarily change him to what they had in mind (the Lunamaria relationship notwithstanding ).

There's no doubt that Shinn is nowhere nearly as effective as the creators wanted him to be. But I do see a lot of good intention in doing what they could with him. I mostly disliked his character because I didn't know where the creators were trying to go with him. I find that I like him quite a bit more on a rewatch.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

There's no doubt that Shinn is nowhere nearly as effective as the creators wanted him to be. But I do see a lot of good intention in doing what they could with him. I mostly disliked his character because I didn't know where the creators were trying to go with him. I find that I like him quite a bit more on a rewatch.

When done right, Shinn could have been a likeable character (and I mean to most people, even the Kira fanboys) He has some good qualities. Its just that the way the creative staff depicted him kind of emphasized his poor qualities and rarely showed his good ones.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by brightman

When done right, Shinn could have been a likeable character (and I mean to most people, even the Kira fanboys) He has some good qualities. Its just that the way the creative staff depicted him kind of emphasized his poor qualities and rarely showed his good ones.

Can you elaborate on this?

[brightman]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Can you elaborate on this?

If you watch his interactions with Rey & Luna throughout the show you'd notice what I'm talking about.

[4Tran]

I'm more talking about where you think this greater likeability can be put into the show itself; especially in the sense of cutting down on the less likeable parts.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I'm more talking about where you think this greater likeability can be put into the show itself; especially in the sense of cutting down on the less likeable parts.

By placing greater emphasis on Shinn himself rather than split time amongst three protagonists. The reason why Shinn was "unlikeable" early on was because they mostly focused on his relationship with Athrun, which was by no means a lovey-dovey one (though it got much better with time--but was destroyed again by the time the Stellar arc hit). More time spent characterizing Shinn and showing his interactions with fellow crew members that he was friendly with would have done wonders.

[Daigo]

GSD sucked because of Kira and his cronies. The goodie little two shoes brigade was incredibly annoying, and their character shields made them unlikeable. They were all invincible. Not a single character from GS died in GSD. Only new GSD chars died. Kira, Asuran, and everyone on the Archangel were invincible. You couldn't suspend your disbelief. Someone once made a ranking of grunt units. The giant gundams essentially became grunt units and even the super weapons were just fodder for the Kira brigade. I couldn't suspend my disbelief. It was just too stupid.

The bubblegum pop politics made me sick. The anime was written by teeny boppers and not by a single person who knows anything about war or even politics for that matter. The message Kira and his fudgepacker friends seemed to espouse was that war was wrong, and bad, but we're the good guys and we'll always make things right. Sorry, but that's childish and suitable for an afterschool special. But not Gundam. Anime in general is usually said not to have "good guys" and "bad guys", but Kira and his fanboy club were made out to be the "good guys" who could never be questioned. And the unbalanced power of their weapons ensured that they were ALWAYS right.

Lastly the character of Shin was unlikeable by a lot of people. I personally didn't mind him, but his character was too whiny and annoying to a lot. Basically Setsuna's attitude should have been was Shin's was.

[Lugia_Tsuyu]

I think it was because of Athran's harem.

[setsunafseiei]

Originally Posted by Daigo

GSD sucked because of Kira and his cronies. The goodie little two shoes brigade was incredibly annoying, and their character shields made them unlikeable. They were all invincible. Not a single character from GS died in GSD. Only new GSD chars died. Kira, Asuran, and everyone on the Archangel were invincible. You couldn't suspend your disbelief. Someone once made a ranking of grunt units. The giant gundams essentially became grunt units and even the super weapons were just fodder for the Kira brigade. I couldn't suspend my disbelief. It was just too stupid.

The bubblegum pop politics made me sick. The anime was written by teeny boppers and not by a single person who knows anything about war or even politics for that matter. The message Kira and his fudgepacker friends seemed to espouse was that war was wrong, and bad, but we're the good guys and we'll always make things right. Sorry, but that's childish and suitable for an afterschool special. But not Gundam. Anime in general is usually said not to have "good guys" and "bad guys", but Kira and his fanboy club were made out to be the "good guys" who could never be questioned. And the unbalanced power of their weapons ensured that they were ALWAYS right.

Lastly the character of Shin was unlikeable by a lot of people. I personally didn't mind him, but his character was too whiny and annoying to a lot. Basically Setsuna's attitude should have been was Shin's was.

wow totally agreed man couldnt even put it better ...damn straight .Its a battlefield out there of course people die but instead the jesus yamato became a martyr or something completely making a mockery to the people who fought and died in what they believe in .Disabling them instead of killing .The problem with gsd most of the character there dont have resolve to kill people making them a saint or dancing clown with robot

[Kenshin3]

I liked gsd, I think people just fall into the hype of hearing other people say it sucks. Thats what I was told, but I liked seed so much I decided to check destiny anyway, and I was not disapointed. The only thing that annoyed me was the extremely large # of flashbacks..other than that, I liked it.

I think it went over people's head too, most people don't see the symbolism of the destiny characters to real life. If you understood that, you'd like it much more.

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by Daigo

GSD sucked because of Kira and his cronies. The goodie little two shoes brigade was incredibly annoying, and their character shields made them unlikeable. They were all invincible. Not a single character from GS died in GSD. Only new GSD chars died. Kira, Asuran, and everyone on the Archangel were invincible. You couldn't suspend your disbelief. Someone once made a ranking of grunt units. The giant gundams essentially became grunt units and even the super weapons were just fodder for the Kira brigade. I couldn't suspend my disbelief. It was just too stupid.

The bubblegum pop politics made me sick. The anime was written by teeny boppers and not by a single person who knows anything about war or even politics for that matter. The message Kira and his fudgepacker friends seemed to espouse was that war was wrong, and bad, but we're the good guys and we'll always make things right. Sorry, but that's childish and suitable for an afterschool special. But not Gundam. Anime in general is usually said not to have "good guys" and "bad guys", but Kira and his fanboy club were made out to be the "good guys" who could never be questioned. And the unbalanced power of their weapons ensured that they were ALWAYS right.

Lastly the character of Shin was unlikeable by a lot of people. I personally didn't mind him, but his character was too whiny and annoying to a lot. Basically Setsuna's attitude should have been was Shin's was.

At bolded part: right, none of the GS chars died in GSD because...all the GS deaths happened...you know...in GS? You know...Tolle, Niccol, Fllay, the druggies, Natale, Aisha, the Astray girls, etc. etc. etc...?

And who says they were invincible? Athrun's Saviour MS got wasted and he nearly got killed by Shinn in ep 39, Cagalli got her .hackatsuki's arm whacked off (and probably would have gotten royally pwnt had her brother not saved her), Eternal was having quite a bit of trouble till Kira came in and saved it, and of course, even Kira ate a massive plot device in GSD 34 (since he had the Godmode Freedom coming up)

And the destroys were never grunts for Kira's gang. They were grunts for SHINN'S gang. Hell, even LUNA soloed a destroy in the IMPULSE.

As for Lacus and Kira always being right...that's not necessarily true. They always WON, yes, and thus, Lacus got to give her little speeches. But in the end, they were right because they won. They didn't win because they were right.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

At bolded part: right, none of the GS chars died in GSD because...all the GS deaths happened...you know...in GS? You know...Tolle, Niccol, Fllay, the druggies, Natale, Aisha, the Astray girls, etc. etc. etc...?

It doesn't mean that they should get plot shields after they survive a series. Characters from the original MSG didn't stop dying after that series was over, they continued to be mortal afterwards in Z, ZZ and Char's Counterattack. It adds a whole different layer of believability when they don't just go around being invincible, especially since these guys basically represent one side of the conflict.