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Revolutionist · 2012-07-08, 13:09

How can you justify a guy that says he doesn't want peace because his intention has always been the extermination of the other side?

Meltyred · 2012-07-08, 13:10

If the ZZ references weren't enough, there's another one coming.
Veigan infighting, split into 2 factions.
The newer one is beaten down, but the Ezelcant's plan is thwarted.
Ezelcant requests a duel with Kio.
Kio eventually makes Ezelcant realize his folly.
But Ezelcant suicides anyway.
The end.

kk2extreme · 2012-07-08, 13:12

We have yet to see Flit doing genocide...

SoldierOfDarkness · 2012-07-08, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

How can you justify a guy that says he doesn't want peace because his intention has always been the extermination of the other side?

Completely ignoring the fact that it's been stated that the Federation has been offering peace to the Vagans (And the PM was pro-vagan so there's no way in hell it could've failed) we now know why they failed.

It was simply because peace was not in Ezcelant's plans. He wants to wage war to weed out the weak and having peace is bad for that.

And that was when Flit was the Supreme commander of the Federation and he never made any attempts to stop those peace talks. He just continued planning on beefing up the Earth's defenses for the inevitable counter-attacks.

Quote:

We have yet to see Flit doing genocide...

According to some saying that you will destroy another person is a war crime that makes you a horrible person. But if you say it's to test people for survival of the strongest it's not that bad.

Quote:

being genocidal doesn't necessarily mean you have to actually achieve the goal or even start with the plans. genocide is a policy and if you support that policy you are genocidal.

look at it this way, racism is the subjugation of another race because you think yours is superior. you don't actually have to go out and beat some other guy, simply believing your people are better than other ethnicities makes you a racist.

That would mean all of us here on the board are genocidal because we all want to destroy something. The actual definition of Genocidal means the systematic killing or planning the destruction of a specific group of people.

Flit has yet to go anywhere near that field. As a kid he spent all of his energy to build something that would allow him to protect his loved ones and that's what his plan has always been. Hell he even held a helpless Vagan at gunpoint and the Vagan challenged him if he could actually shoot a human being. Guess what? He couldn't pull the damn trigger when it actually came down to it.

Where Ezcelant built a sword to go and stab people, Flit built a shield to protect the ones he loved. How the hell is that genocidal?

And the Vagans (And Ezcelant's) actions haven't exactly been sympathetic nor do their motivations make it any better.

Justin_Brett · 2012-07-08, 13:57

If only they could bring in Charles Darwin, put him in the AGE-FX, and have him slap Ezelcant upside the head for not knowing how biology works.

Revolutionist · 2012-07-08, 15:13

Let's see soldier, just because Flit had his hands tied behind his back as a Federation commander, doesn't mean that he didn't oppose the peace talks. In fact, when the corrupt prime minister tells him there won't be peace, Flit says that's fine because his intention was always the extermination of Vagan. He started out on a noble cause, but Yurin's death sent him over the edge and he was consumed by it. He went as far as to train and groom his grandson into a weapon with which to carry out his genocide. He has no moral high ground.

DevilHighDxD · 2012-07-08, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Let's see soldier, just because Flit had his hands tied behind his back as a Federation commander, doesn't mean that he didn't oppose the peace talks. In fact, when the corrupt prime minister tells him there won't be peace, Flit says that's fine because his intention was always the extermination of Vagan. He started out on a noble cause, but Yurin's death sent him over the edge and he was consumed by it. He went as far as to train and groom his grandson into a weapon with which to carry out his genocide. He has no moral high ground.

And did Kio go and say that he will genocide all vegan? Also did Flit brainwashed Kio as like Ezelcant did to his people? While Flit want to wipe out Vegan for the good of earthling, Ezelcant other hand busy killing innocent people both sides. He prepare kio in cases of the vegan's attack, I see nothing wrong with that, it like a parent train their childrens at young age in self defense to prepare if he/she gonna get pick on or bully in the future. Recent episode still failed for me to gain sympathy for the vegan....

GN0010 Nosferatu · 2012-07-08, 17:34

Finally we return to good old action. Gundam Legilis was so freaking awesome. AGE-3 and the Darkhound didn't stand a chance. Can't wait for the next episode.

faceroll · 2012-07-08, 18:32

this episode has ezelcant going from sane to insane already. In the last few episodes, we get the impression ezelcant was decent person, then he stoop into madness by confronting kio. does anyone wonder that his son's death falls into conflict with his belief of social darwinism and its almost a textbook example? Not saying hes automatically a straight up hyprocrite, but his actions in next episodes would likely demonstrate this.

Well cant wait see the AGE-FX in action. hopefully asemu can also get any upgrade after his lance does nothing against the Legillis.

Dr. Casey · 2012-07-08, 18:45

Flit's become somewhat twisted over the years and he's certainly not perfect (Training Kio to be the perfect weapon since toddlerhood is extremely screwed up and contemptible), but he's a far cry from Ezelcant. I can't imagine him ever murdering an innocent civilian Vagan, unlike Ezelcant who's spent the better part of a century mowing down innocent people by the thousands. Flit might be a grumpy old man now rather than a sweet and innocent shota, but he's remained an overall good person throughout the whole story.

j0x · 2012-07-08, 18:48

Elzelcant is looking at the wrong problem, to solve the thirst for violence of humans over decreasing/limited resources (like food/shelter/etc) then he should solve overpopulation, give all humans a better contraceptive and the birthrate will decline so that resources will be divided enough for everyone

guess the EXA-DB only knows how to develop war technologies and cannot do other useful technologies

the AGE-FX looks mighty cool

Vena · 2012-07-08, 18:54

This episode felt a bit sluggish, probably because the fights scenes were awkwardly choreographed. Asemu seems to have not been able to head-shot Ezelcant on the mere fact that his much more outdated and inferior gundam no longer has any firepower at all... for some reason (its not like carrying around the old DODS would have slowed him down or anything, I just don't understand the point of the lance when its done nothing at all and can just as easily be replaced by a beam sword + a gun that shoots more than peas). He was otherwise running circles around both enemies but doing nothing all the same, though I enjoyed the many varied uses of his hooks. It wasn't helped that the fights were broken up (timing wise) by a lot of Darwinist jargon and "But... but... but...!", leading to long stints of talk, Kio getting decimated by Ezelcant, Asemu flying circles around the big guy (who was doing nothing but standing there), and almost nothing happening.

Nvis · 2012-07-08, 21:47

Good to see Kio evolved beyond AGE-3's abilities. You can see the AGE-3 couldn't keep up with Kio's reaction time.

FlareKnight · 2012-07-08, 23:34

No offense to Ezelcant, but the line "even if it costs me my life" rings kind of hollow from a man who's going to be dead in a few months. How moving, he'll cut his life short by a couple weeks for the sake of his ambition.

I'll give a few moments of silence for AGE-3 Orbital. A useless piece of junk that never accomplished anything.

So instead of Ezelcant being evil, he's just insane. Go ahead and commit indirect genocide as he decides which humans are fit to live and which aren't. I'm sure a generation born out of a terrible slaughter of those 'inferior' will be pretty happy. I swear some historical comparables are kind of coming to mind here. Certainly the loss of his son just messed him up. I swear that I was expecting him to call his idea the 'Destiny Plan' by the end

. Either his plan will make for a peaceful future or just people who can kill each other better because they are smarter...

Ezelcant certainly has to be stopped and they can't wait for him to expire naturally. This guy has ruined the lives of everyone in the damn solar system. Killed people to create a situation for war on both sides. Nice attempt to humanize him, but certainly a dangerous war criminal who needs to be brought down. Good job giving him that Gundam by the way Kio...

Asemu seriously needs an upgrade. Even just going back to AGE-2 Double Bullet would be enough. Besides the flash that unit doesn't even come close to having the same firepower that his old one did. No matter how skilled he is can't bring down tough units with that lance. Kind of funny that the only one left for him to fight is Zeheart. At least both are using agile units that don't have overwhelming firepower.

And oh great, now Kio is turning Zeheart on us with the "this unit can't keep up with me." Damn it guys make use of what you have.

Also a nod to Gundam Age being nothing if not predictable. Who would have guessed that Deen would join the Vagan army...

Oh well, welcome to the series Kio Yamato

.

casval cehack · 2012-07-08, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Finally we return to good old action. Gundam Legilis was so freaking awesome. AGE-3 and the Darkhound didn't stand a chance. Can't wait for the next episode.

Yeah, finally a satisfying MS episode after the Kio vegan experience. A Dark Hound episode I might say, even the center point of the battle was the knockoff gundam Legilis. The shield bits light show was nothing to the super pirate.

IMO, Legilis is wasted on a hypocrite, dying vegan who convinced himself that the best way to end conflict is to create super-humans through wars. Because dear Romy died, it's necessary to create even more sacrificial ones in noble tests (destroying civilian colonies and involving his own people in "accidents").

But it all pales in comparison to Flit, the "soon-to-be" walking bastion of genocide.

Atleast he seems to be busy offscreen, with the Age-FX ready by the next episode.

Looking forward to the sailor Ash X Romary "reunion".

Makaijin · 2012-07-08, 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vena

This episode felt a bit sluggish, probably because the fights scenes were awkwardly choreographed. Asemu seems to have not been able to head-shot Ezelcant on the mere fact that his much more outdated and inferior gundam no longer has any firepower at all... for some reason (its not like carrying around the old DODS would have slowed him down or anything, I just don't understand the point of the lance when its done nothing at all and can just as easily be replaced by a beam sword + a gun that shoots more than peas). He was otherwise running circles around both enemies but doing nothing all the same, though I enjoyed the many varied uses of his hooks. It wasn't helped that the fights were broken up (timing wise) by a lot of Darwinist jargon and "But... but... but...!", leading to long stints of talk, Kio getting decimated by Ezelcant, Asemu flying circles around the big guy (who was doing nothing but standing there), and almost nothing happening.

Aside from the cool looking factor, I always thought his choice of weaponry (Lance and wired hooks) is more to do with limited resources that's available as a pirate. It has been stated they have to resort to salvaging debris as well as the act of pirating itself. The Bisidian isn't exactly a Dai-Gurren with mech manufacturing capabilities, nor does the Dark Hound run off spiral energy. As pirates stuck in space chances are they have to go on extended voyages without being able to resupply, so weaponry that doesn't consume much ammo/energy would be a godsend in these situations.

justsomeguy · 2012-07-09, 00:46

Ezelcant is one crazy jackass. He wants to end the supposed cycle of war and peace, by personally starting a war and killing civilians to leave a "superior" race. Too bad Kio doesn't have any recorders in his cockpit, because the Vagan population really needs to find out what their leader is really like.

Dark Hound needs stronger weapons. Based solely on his skill, Asemu was in position multiple times to destroy Legilis and Zamdrag, but his shotlancer completely fails to do the job.

AGE-3 got wrecked. It lasted only 11 episodes, and didn't accomplish much. Orbital in particular was less than impressive, getting captured on its first sortie and getting destroyed during the escape. It supposedly has more speed and agility, but based on what we see it's not much more than any other contemporary MS. The whole time, I was thinking "That's it?"

As for Deen, what the hell is he thinking? Who knows if he's signing up to fight Earth and Kio, or if he's going to be instrumental to peace at the end.

Maybe there will be new OP animation next episode, since it's time for AGE-FX.

monster · 2012-07-09, 03:29

I am so confused, how did an anti-war ideal become the driving force of the conflict in this series? Prior to AGE, the worst battles we've seen were people doing stupid daily battles in Fardain. The Vagans didn't even suffer from war as far as I know. So why is creating a world without war suddenly become the motivation for the antagonist?

Maybe I'm just missing some facts about the world of AGE, probably from the sidestories. But as of now, this development is just very disappointing. Hopefully future episodes will make it better.

(And yeah, I know about the huge war that ended with the Silver Chalice Treaty, but that history doesn't even factor that much into the plot.)

Anyway, the rest of the episode just doesn't matter anymore to me. Kio escapes, whatever.

ReddyRedWolf · 2012-07-09, 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

I am so confused, how did an anti-war ideal become the driving force of the conflict in this series? Prior to AGE, the worst battle we've seen were people doing stupid daily battles in Fardain. The Vagans didn't even suffer from war as far as I know. So why is creating a world without war suddenly become the motivation for the antagonist?

It isn't. Like Mao Zedong and Pol Pot Ezelcant's revolution requires a lot of dead bodies for utopia. Ezelcant became insane because of his son's death.

He did really think Kio was Romy reincarnated. This isn't Aquarion!

Believing his son would be reincarnated on Earth resulted to his self made religion that he is sucking the Vegan's with. That their souls would return to Earth.

With a 20% death rate among Vegans, it was probably less when Ezelcant was not in charge, Ezelcant beliveid that is the natural order of things that the strong survive and the weak die.

The partial EXA-DB in his view validated his belief as humans always had cycles of war and peace. He wanted to make a war so terrible that humanity wont consider it.

Just on thing... It already happened! He wasn't paying attention the powers in Earth Sphere namely the Federation, Colony Alliances Euba and Zalam and other independent colony nations implemented a major disarmament a policy of Technos Taboo which resulted to Lost Technologies so humanity wont face extinction again.

Now Ezelcant started it all over again because he believes in Social Darwinism.

The Silver Chalice Treaty though not Luddite in nature seems to be working. With some like the Asuno family and Mardona skirting the law.

Om Nerabdator · 2012-07-09, 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by kk2extreme

We have yet to see Flit doing genocide...

true i cant wait to see his end game ^^

im hoping he will be the big bad at the end, that would be epic!!!

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2012-07-08, 13:09	Link #41
Revolutionist Puppet Master Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Behind You	How can you justify a guy that says he doesn't want peace because his intention has always been the extermination of the other side? __________________ I cannot give you back your homes, or restore your dead to life, but perhaps I can give you justice, in the name of our King. ~ Ned Stark

2012-07-08, 15:13	Link #46
Revolutionist Puppet Master Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Behind You	Let's see soldier, just because Flit had his hands tied behind his back as a Federation commander, doesn't mean that he didn't oppose the peace talks. In fact, when the corrupt prime minister tells him there won't be peace, Flit says that's fine because his intention was always the extermination of Vagan. He started out on a noble cause, but Yurin's death sent him over the edge and he was consumed by it. He went as far as to train and groom his grandson into a weapon with which to carry out his genocide. He has no moral high ground. __________________ I cannot give you back your homes, or restore your dead to life, but perhaps I can give you justice, in the name of our King. ~ Ned Stark

2012-07-08, 18:54	Link #52
Vena Carpe Diem Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: \|\|At the edge of finality.\|\| Age: 34	This episode felt a bit sluggish, probably because the fights scenes were awkwardly choreographed. Asemu seems to have not been able to head-shot Ezelcant on the mere fact that his much more outdated and inferior gundam no longer has any firepower at all... for some reason (its not like carrying around the old DODS would have slowed him down or anything, I just don't understand the point of the lance when its done nothing at all and can just as easily be replaced by a beam sword + a gun that shoots more than peas). He was otherwise running circles around both enemies but doing nothing all the same, though I enjoyed the many varied uses of his hooks. It wasn't helped that the fights were broken up (timing wise) by a lot of Darwinist jargon and "But... but... but...!", leading to long stints of talk, Kio getting decimated by Ezelcant, Asemu flying circles around the big guy (who was doing nothing but standing there), and almost nothing happening. __________________

2012-07-08, 23:34	Link #54
FlareKnight User of the "Fast Draw" Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada	No offense to Ezelcant, but the line "even if it costs me my life" rings kind of hollow from a man who's going to be dead in a few months. How moving, he'll cut his life short by a couple weeks for the sake of his ambition. I'll give a few moments of silence for AGE-3 Orbital. A useless piece of junk that never accomplished anything. So instead of Ezelcant being evil, he's just insane. Go ahead and commit indirect genocide as he decides which humans are fit to live and which aren't. I'm sure a generation born out of a terrible slaughter of those 'inferior' will be pretty happy. I swear some historical comparables are kind of coming to mind here. Certainly the loss of his son just messed him up. I swear that I was expecting him to call his idea the 'Destiny Plan' by the end . Either his plan will make for a peaceful future or just people who can kill each other better because they are smarter... Ezelcant certainly has to be stopped and they can't wait for him to expire naturally. This guy has ruined the lives of everyone in the damn solar system. Killed people to create a situation for war on both sides. Nice attempt to humanize him, but certainly a dangerous war criminal who needs to be brought down. Good job giving him that Gundam by the way Kio... Asemu seriously needs an upgrade. Even just going back to AGE-2 Double Bullet would be enough. Besides the flash that unit doesn't even come close to having the same firepower that his old one did. No matter how skilled he is can't bring down tough units with that lance. Kind of funny that the only one left for him to fight is Zeheart. At least both are using agile units that don't have overwhelming firepower. And oh great, now Kio is turning Zeheart on us with the "this unit can't keep up with me." Damn it guys make use of what you have. Also a nod to Gundam Age being nothing if not predictable. Who would have guessed that Deen would join the Vagan army... Oh well, welcome to the series Kio Yamato . __________________ Anime-Evo

2012-07-08, 13:10	Link #42
Meltyred Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011	If the ZZ references weren't enough, there's another one coming. Veigan infighting, split into 2 factions. The newer one is beaten down, but the Ezelcant's plan is thwarted. Ezelcant requests a duel with Kio. Kio eventually makes Ezelcant realize his folly. But Ezelcant suicides anyway. The end.

2012-07-08, 13:12	Link #43
kk2extreme Your wife is hot... Join Date: May 2008 Location: At your house fixing A/C	We have yet to see Flit doing genocide...

2012-07-08, 13:57	Link #45
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	If only they could bring in Charles Darwin, put him in the AGE-FX, and have him slap Ezelcant upside the head for not knowing how biology works.

2012-07-08, 17:34	Link #48
GN0010 Nosferatu Where's the monoeye? Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hargenteen Age: 35	Finally we return to good old action. Gundam Legilis was so freaking awesome. AGE-3 and the Darkhound didn't stand a chance. Can't wait for the next episode.

2012-07-08, 18:32	Link #49
faceroll Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Calipornia Age: 30	this episode has ezelcant going from sane to insane already. In the last few episodes, we get the impression ezelcant was decent person, then he stoop into madness by confronting kio. does anyone wonder that his son's death falls into conflict with his belief of social darwinism and its almost a textbook example? Not saying hes automatically a straight up hyprocrite, but his actions in next episodes would likely demonstrate this. Well cant wait see the AGE-FX in action. hopefully asemu can also get any upgrade after his lance does nothing against the Legillis.

2012-07-08, 18:45	Link #50
Dr. Casey Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tennessee Age: 36	Flit's become somewhat twisted over the years and he's certainly not perfect (Training Kio to be the perfect weapon since toddlerhood is extremely screwed up and contemptible), but he's a far cry from Ezelcant. I can't imagine him ever murdering an innocent civilian Vagan, unlike Ezelcant who's spent the better part of a century mowing down innocent people by the thousands. Flit might be a grumpy old man now rather than a sweet and innocent shota, but he's remained an overall good person throughout the whole story.

2012-07-08, 18:48	Link #51
j0x Giga Drill Breaker Join Date: Jan 2009	Elzelcant is looking at the wrong problem, to solve the thirst for violence of humans over decreasing/limited resources (like food/shelter/etc) then he should solve overpopulation, give all humans a better contraceptive and the birthrate will decline so that resources will be divided enough for everyone guess the EXA-DB only knows how to develop war technologies and cannot do other useful technologies the AGE-FX looks mighty cool

2012-07-08, 21:47	Link #53
Nvis Where are the good animes Join Date: Dec 2003	Good to see Kio evolved beyond AGE-3's abilities. You can see the AGE-3 couldn't keep up with Kio's reaction time.

2012-07-09, 00:46	Link #57
justsomeguy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004	Ezelcant is one crazy jackass. He wants to end the supposed cycle of war and peace, by personally starting a war and killing civilians to leave a "superior" race. Too bad Kio doesn't have any recorders in his cockpit, because the Vagan population really needs to find out what their leader is really like. Dark Hound needs stronger weapons. Based solely on his skill, Asemu was in position multiple times to destroy Legilis and Zamdrag, but his shotlancer completely fails to do the job. AGE-3 got wrecked. It lasted only 11 episodes, and didn't accomplish much. Orbital in particular was less than impressive, getting captured on its first sortie and getting destroyed during the escape. It supposedly has more speed and agility, but based on what we see it's not much more than any other contemporary MS. The whole time, I was thinking "That's it?" As for Deen, what the hell is he thinking? Who knows if he's signing up to fight Earth and Kio, or if he's going to be instrumental to peace at the end. Maybe there will be new OP animation next episode, since it's time for AGE-FX. __________________ Currently watching: Arrow, The Flash, Gundam IBO, Euphonium, Occultic;Nine, Girlish Number Currently playing: LoH Trails in the Sky SC

2012-07-09, 03:29	Link #58
monster Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	I am so confused, how did an anti-war ideal become the driving force of the conflict in this series? Prior to AGE, the worst battles we've seen were people doing stupid daily battles in Fardain. The Vagans didn't even suffer from war as far as I know. So why is creating a world without war suddenly become the motivation for the antagonist? Maybe I'm just missing some facts about the world of AGE, probably from the sidestories. But as of now, this development is just very disappointing. Hopefully future episodes will make it better. (And yeah, I know about the huge war that ended with the Silver Chalice Treaty, but that history doesn't even factor that much into the plot.) Anyway, the rest of the episode just doesn't matter anymore to me. Kio escapes, whatever.