Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[The American Average]

I know my question is out of left field but i going to say it anyways, how old is Rey Za Burrel? is it ever really specified? wiki says he's 17 but i don't know

[monster]

Originally Posted by The American Average

I know my question is out of left field but i going to say it anyways, how old is Rey Za Burrel? is it ever really specified? wiki says he's 17 but i don't know

It depends on what improvement was made in his cloning process compared to Rau.

Rau was 5 years younger than Mu, but they looked about the same age before Mu became a teenager (from what I can see of their first meeting), and Rau seemed to be about 5-10 years older before Mu reached the age of 30.

So Rau definitely aged noticeably faster than Mu, but not that much faster. Assuming Rey went through a better cloning process, he's probably no younger than 10 years old at the extreme, but he could also be around the same age as Shinn and Lunamaria.

[Destined_Fate]

Not really as Lacus has her own plans that are nothing like Durandals.

Though you could at least argue that Durandal was able to show how hypocritical Kira and Lacus are.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Though you could at least argue that Durandal was able to show how hypocritical Kira and Lacus are.

In what way were they hypocritical?

[I Fail at Life]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Not really as Lacus has her own plans that are nothing like Durandals.

Though you could at least argue that Durandal was able to show how hypocritical Kira and Lacus are.

Who are you responding to? This is just random...wait... Are you trying to stir up something?

[S.Freedom]

I think Destined_Fate is responding to Washu-chan's post on the last page.

But his reply was added in such a way that it looks odd. Either because Kaito-kid, TAA, and monster type faster than him and where thus able to reply faster. Or because he didn't refresh the page and didn't realize the conversation had moved on thus requiring him to quote who he was responding to.

[Destined_Fate]

I cannot see all posts posted because of forum features I've enabled.

So yes, I was responding to Washu about Durandal's Destiny Plan.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

I cannot see all posts posted because of forum features I've enabled.

So yes, I was responding to Washu about Durandal's Destiny Plan.

No good deed goes unpunished.

Durandal's "victory" was a Pyrrhical one.

Destiny was supposed to be CE's version of Zeta, minus the mindraping part.

Going off-topic, I've been theorizing that, what if the HD Remaster of Seed was an in-universe example of "history being written by the winners" (i.e., the post-Destiny TSA), with an example being the retconning of Nicol's death?

[monster]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Going off-topic, I've been theorizing that, what if the HD Remaster of Seed was an in-universe example of "history being written by the winners" (i.e., the post-Destiny TSA), with an example being the retconning of Nicol's death?

Putting aside for a moment the fact that it's not:

The practical effect of Nichol's death remained the same in both the original series and in the remaster. Therefore, there was no point in actually "rewriting history" from an in-universe point of view. With either version, it served as a catalyst for the final fight between the Strike and the Aegis, and both Athrun and Kira have gotten over it.

[The American Average]

Nicol's death? why would they need recton that? out of all the stuff that went wrong in the CE thats pretty low on the list. The only person who might benefit from that getting changed would be Kira and Nicols parent (are they still alive i think his dads dead but other family?). I know that was your example, it is an interesting theory though "history being written by the winners" but then that wouldn't that mean that the TSA could be turned into a villain, you know using their powers as they saw fit. I doubt bandai would make one of their most popular characters and make them "evil" in in a improbable next series, would be cool but doubtful.

[I Fail at Life]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Destiny was supposed to be CE's version of Zeta, minus the mindraping part.

That's bull and they know it. The same people who complained that the first half of Seed followed 0079's storyline want Destiny to completely follow Zeta's? That's hypocritical. Only when they didn't like the finished product did they want it to completely follow Zeta's story line, hypocrites.

[monster]

Originally Posted by The American Average

Nicol's death? why would they need recton that? out of all the stuff that went wrong in the CE thats pretty low on the list.

I doubt bandai would make one of their most popular characters and make them "evil" in in a improbable next series, would be cool but doubtful.

To be fair, if we're talking about something in-universe, then none of that matters. As far as in-universe in concerned, there is no fictional CE timeline/show (only their "real" Cosmic Era calendar) and no Bandai.

[Aquaman OS]

First of all the Nichol's death thing wasn't even a retcon. Kira still aknowledges he killed him, so it's not like they changed it to "Not Kira's fault guys really."

Second of all people need to seriously get over the "Bu...but.....it was supposed to be like Zeta whaaaaaaaa!" crap. No. It never was. And the reason people got so pissed at it was they wanted Shinn to be Kamille MK2 and Athrun to be his mentor, and for everyone to fight the Titans analogue and Kira and Lacus to only show up briefly to shill about how awesome Shinn is and then leave.

And that was never in the cards. They outright said Shinn was based on Anikin Skywalker. He was never gonna be Kamille, and always going to be what he became. Kira was always gonna come back and be important, you can see that as clearly as OP1 and the eye catch.

I laugh at the guys when it first came out who were all "Nah Kira's not showing up. Char and Amuro were in ZZ's OP and they weren't in the show proper. It's just for symbolism." or "Kira and Shinn fighting in the OP is just a show of how different their ideals are. Look Kira's even shown in Freedom and that was obviously destroyed at the end of Seed."

I think people were expecting Destiny to be alot deeper than it actually was.

Seriously if people could just enjoy Destiny on its own merits and not hate it because it wasn't the UCish remade Zeta they wanted it to be (Because of course all Gundam's are supposed to be like UC guys am I right?) it wouldn't be as hated as it is.

[Destined_Fate]

Well history is written by the winners. I'm sure the Nicol thing was changed to go by Kira's PoV when what really happened was that he killed Nicol and not Nicol just suiciding on him randomly.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Well history is written by the winners. I'm sure the Nicol thing was changed to go by Kira's PoV when what really happened was that he killed Nicol and not Nicol just suiciding on him randomly.

From now on I'm going to use gif's to respond to Destined Fate's posts.
It's ok, he won't be reading this! He got half the people on this forum on his ignore list.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Kira's PoV ... was that he killed Nicol.

I fixed that for you.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

Is it? Because I keep seeing it deal with the Minerva more than any sort of "global" anything.

Because beside Shinn and Minerva co, the story also focusing itself on the Archangel co, the ORB government, LOGOS, ZAFT, Earth Alliance, the Terminal, and to some extend PLANT and Patrick Zala loyalists. Don’t tell me you can’t see how many factions and the clash between them Destiny is focusing on. It’s pretty much a global conflict, I tell you. On the other hand, Hamlet is more focusing on characters on personal level. Yes, there’s war in it, but IMO it’s pretty much used only as a background

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

What makes you think the TRUE story is the shooting going on that we don't see instead of the moral turmoil we actually DO see?

I never said such a thing must be exclusive. A story can have both a global-conflicts focus and moral turmoil depiction. What makes you think the two must be separated?


I think this will be my last response regarding your comparing Hamlet & Destiny. Like I said in my previous posts (and many members here seem to said/implied the same thing during my absense): this is such an ill-comparison. Hamlet is one of the best literary work out there while Destiny is such a clusterfuck of a story which influenced by many outside marketing factors. Since when Shakespeare’s best works are marred by model kit merchandising, rabid fans’ requests (Kira ftw!), and meeting the TV deadlines? Not to mention the rumored internal conflict between the director and some VAs that also influence the story.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

And that was never in the cards. They outright said Shinn was based on Anikin Skywalker. He was never gonna be Kamille, and always going to be what he became. Kira was always gonna come back and be important, you can see that as clearly as OP1 and the eye catch.

Speaking of Star Wars, I'm guessing that these are supposed to be the analogues:

• Kira = Luke
• Athrun = Obi-Wan
• Cagalli = Leia
• Shinn = Anakin
• Durandal = Palpatine
• Mayu = Shmi (?)
• Stella = Padme (?)

Problem with the Shinn-Anakin connection is that Anakin HAD to become Darth Vader to set him up for the Original Trilogy.

I can't imagine Shinn saying this:

Shinn: No. I am your father.
Kira: NOOOOOO~!

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Well history is written by the winners. I'm sure the Nicol thing was changed to go by Kira's PoV when what really happened was that he killed Nicol and not Nicol just suiciding on him randomly.

You DO know that Kira admitted to killing Nicol in both versions right??? The only thing they changed was the depiction of the scene, which is nothing more than that as Kira did admit to the killing later (which should have changed if the writers really did want to change things)

Bottom line is the change did NOTHING aside from updated graphics, the outcome is still the same

[monster]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Hamlet is one of the best literary work out there while Destiny is such a clusterfuck of a story which influenced by many outside marketing factors. Since when Shakespeare’s best works are marred by model kit merchandising, rabid fans’ requests (Kira ftw!), and meeting the TV deadlines? Not to mention the rumored internal conflict between the director and some VAs that also influence the story.

The details of your discussion aside, I don't see how the point of comparison being made between the two works has anything to do with their relative values.

I don't believe anyone is saying that the story/production in Destiny is as good as in Hamlet, or vice versa.