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Old 2008-03-09, 00:33   Link #801
ganbaru
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The volune 9 of the novel might be more about introduce Sasaki and the so call anti-SOS-Brigade . Am I the only one thinking than with the Anti-SOS-Brigade, all the stuff that Kyon had said belived in ( or at lease hoped for) in the begining of the first novel ( alien, time traverler, monster ghost esper and evil organisation) did appear in some way
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Old 2008-03-09, 00:35   Link #802
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
The volune 9 of the novel might be more about introduce Sasaki and the so call anti-SOS-Brigade . Am I the only one thinking than with the Anti-SOS-Brigade, all the stuff that Kyon had said belived in ( or at lease hoped for) in the begining of the first novel ( alien, time traverler, monster ghost esper and evil organisation) did appear in some way
No, the Kyon Theory is stupid and has many, many holes.

So does the idea that Haruhi's controlling everything, but...
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Old 2008-03-11, 07:07   Link #803
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
No, the Kyon Theory is stupid and has many, many holes.

So does the idea that Haruhi's controlling everything, but...
Perhaps.

It does seem quite a coincidence though that Kyon would have ended meeting both the quasi divine super girls. although their could be another explanation.
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Old 2008-03-11, 07:30   Link #804
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Perhaps.

It does seem quite a coincidence though that Kyon would have ended meeting both the quasi divine super girls. although their could be another explanation.
The greatest fact against the Kyonist view, is that the Author spilled the beans that he originally wanted Kyon to be an ESPer, but eventually decided to make him completely normal. Yes, it's a downer to use the author as killer of theories, but there you go.
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Old 2008-03-11, 07:32   Link #805
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I think it is fine to use Tanegawa to kill theories, since there are too many soliloquies of Kyon that to me, really are words straight out of the author's mouth.
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Old 2008-03-11, 09:37   Link #806
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Kyon has been both used as a mouthpiece or just left to wander around, but you'll notice that the mood he portrays when he's alone is much different than the one when he;s with the SOS-dan. Those soliloquies are important to see how Tanegawa views the world, which may or may not be how Kyon feels too. The thing is that we know so little about Kyon really, we don't even know his name, he's more mysterious than anything else in the story really. Because often enough, we're not sure who or what Kyon really is. He may be just a normal high schooler, but there's obviously something special about him.
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Old 2008-03-11, 09:57   Link #807
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by ClockWorkAngel View Post
He may be just a normal high schooler, but there's obviously something special about him.
We might know what Kyon is only at the end of the story , but we have room for speculation. Haruhiste might see kyon as the ''chosen one and kyoniste might see him as ''god''
One thing I want to know is what Sasaki and Kyon (middle school) were doing
when Haruhi and Kyon (high school) where writing ''I am here'' at the school field at the tanabata matsuri 3 or 4 year before the ''present''.
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Old 2008-03-14, 05:38   Link #808
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If anyone has the manga (by Gaku Tsugano), in volume 3's "Knowing Me Knowing You", what exactly is Mikuru saying regarding her motives for asking Kyon out? My Chinese is not very good, so I only got that she apologized for lying to him, and then a torrent of jargon overwhelmed me.

Also, in volume 4, I'm trying to figure out what the chapter involving Kyon's family is about, what with the horror-story glasses or something. Any help?
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Old 2008-03-14, 20:51   Link #809
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Japanese, not Chinese. And yes, when Mikuru talks to Kyon she uses a lot of time traveler's jargon.

As for what she is doing, Mikuru says that she is worried about fitting in with the present day (I assume it's the 2000's in the series, as both Haruhi and Koizumi refer to it being the 21st century). Time travelers supposedly train extensively to blend in with the era and place that they will be working in, but it's like learning a language in the classroom--it's never as complete as the real thing. Anyway, she wants Kyon to help her with it, and to do things with her that "normal" 2000's teenagers do. She also would like to be able to forget her mission for a little while and just be Mikuru Asahina, and not a time-traveling agent.

As for the Kyon's family chapter, it is an additional part to the cave cricket story--it seems that Kyon's grandmother is one of the people who was exposed to the data creature, and so Yuki has given Kyon special glasses that will allow him to see the creature. The reason that he sees Haruhi briefly is because some of Haruhi's dandruff had gotten stuck to the lenses (thus having her DNA i.e. her physical data), and so Kyon had to wipe it off to use the glasses properly.

The data creature takes the form of whatever its victim fears the most--for the computer club president it was GIANT BUGS, but for Kyon's grandmother it was . . . himself in a WWII army uniform? No, it was his grandfather, at the age where she first met him, rejecting her love. Anyway, the creature decides to infect Kyon, since Kyon has seen the "perfect" version of Haruhi's SOS-dan emblem, as opposed to the lower resolution online version, and attacks him. This is when the booby trap built into the glasses is triggered, and the data creature is trapped in what resembles an inkblot or a broken liquid crystal layer in the lens.
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Old 2008-03-15, 01:25   Link #810
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Thanks. And I said "Chinese" because I bought the Chinese-translated manga, and my brain farted and didn't clarify.
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Old 2008-03-16, 07:11   Link #811
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Originally Posted by ijuinkun View Post
Japanese, not Chinese. And yes, when Mikuru talks to Kyon she uses a lot of time traveler's jargon.

As for what she is doing, Mikuru says that she is worried about fitting in with the present day (I assume it's the 2000's in the series, as both Haruhi and Koizumi refer to it being the 21st century). Time travelers supposedly train extensively to blend in with the era and place that they will be working in, but it's like learning a language in the classroom--it's never as complete as the real thing. Anyway, she wants Kyon to help her with it, and to do things with her that "normal" 2000's teenagers do. She also would like to be able to forget her mission for a little while and just be Mikuru Asahina, and not a time-traveling agent.

As for the Kyon's family chapter, it is an additional part to the cave cricket story--it seems that Kyon's grandmother is one of the people who was exposed to the data creature, and so Yuki has given Kyon special glasses that will allow him to see the creature. The reason that he sees Haruhi briefly is because some of Haruhi's dandruff had gotten stuck to the lenses (thus having her DNA i.e. her physical data), and so Kyon had to wipe it off to use the glasses properly.

The data creature takes the form of whatever its victim fears the most--for the computer club president it was GIANT BUGS, but for Kyon's grandmother it was . . . himself in a WWII army uniform? No, it was his grandfather, at the age where she first met him, rejecting her love. Anyway, the creature decides to infect Kyon, since Kyon has seen the "perfect" version of Haruhi's SOS-dan emblem, as opposed to the lower resolution online version, and attacks him. This is when the booby trap built into the glasses is triggered, and the data creature is trapped in what resembles an inkblot or a broken liquid crystal layer in the lens.
I don't remember ever reading that chapter on Baka Tsuki, could you give me a link?
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Old 2008-03-16, 07:58   Link #812
ganbaru
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I don't remember ever reading that chapter on Baka Tsuki, could you give me a link?
They were talking about the manga, not the novel. The manga seem to get sone original story
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Old 2008-03-16, 16:24   Link #813
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Yes, these are extra "filler" stories from the manga that were not in the novels.
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Old 2008-03-16, 16:28   Link #814
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Yes, these are extra "filler" stories from the manga that were not in the novels.
Wish they'd animate them, though.
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Old 2008-03-16, 16:48   Link #815
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The manga is intended for a different audience base than that of the novels. Novels afford more opportunity for Tanigawa to come forth and essentially achieve what Koji Kumeta (of Zetsubou Sensei fame) does in his manga, whereas the manga version of Suzumiya Haruhi has to convey the plot through its visuals and less on words.

Animation of manga plot though would be secondary to getting the novel plots done, given just how far the Haruhi storyline in itself has advanced. With the canon material, 2 full-season production might be warranted to cover all the novel elements. Assuming if the plan for KyoAni is to 'fill the gap' for the awaited Haruhi release, padding novel1-4 might constitute a full 2x episode run in itself, leaving everything else out for later on.
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Old 2008-03-18, 14:40   Link #816
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The greatest fact against the Kyonist view, is that the Author spilled the beans that he originally wanted Kyon to be an ESPer, but eventually decided to make him completely normal. Yes, it's a downer to use the author as killer of theories, but there you go.
Acutaly the author didn't kill the theories. In fact it is stress that while he does look like he is an "ordinary boy" he realy isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interview translation
Q: Haruhi hates boredom most of all and seeks "extraordinariness" in school life. And the one who is always at her beck and call is the narrator of this story, Kyon. He is an ordinary boy with no outstanding features, whose name is not even revealed. What do you think about him?

Nagaru: Though I could give him a decent name, I thought it feels stupid and funny that he is called by that queer nickname from beginning to end. As for his featurelessness, I originally planned he would be an esper, but while writing the Prologue, I had subconsciously turned him into a common person. And you said he is an ordinary boy, but I think, in a sense, he is not an ordinary boy, such as his way of thinking.


Q: What is an example of his thinking being unusual?

Nagaru: In a sense he reasons philosophically although he is a first-year student of high school. And while he quibbles and complains, his actions aren't consistent with the mind. Perhaps he may be more incompliant than Haruhi. After all, he is an opposite person.
It's just very intresting that the whole prologue for book one seems to describe pretty much everything that goes on through out the books.
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Old 2008-03-18, 15:14   Link #817
panzerfan
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At times, Kyon seems to rebel against the rebels, which still is not a true double negation, thus not making him actually a member of the norm.

For a high school student, Kyon talks more like a collage student majoring Humanities with specialization in Japanese studies. (Nagato and Koizumi should allow Kyon to write an ontological thesis) . Although I was deem as overly underestimating the typical Japanese youth, I see Kyon as having a very unusual understanding in literature, history (both medieval and contemporary), politics and even the economy. This is arguably 'relatively normal' I guess.

The issue on Kyon being one with godly power, my only conclusion so far is that he already, by the virtue of being the one 'with the last word'. has an unsurpassed kind of power at his disposal. Kyon can single handedly select what he wishes to disclose and he has the advantage of being the primary view/account that all viewer observations are to be made from.

EDIT: And fortunately, Kyon is no Leon Trotsky I suppose...
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Last edited by panzerfan; 2008-03-18 at 15:26.
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Old 2008-03-18, 16:02   Link #818
ganbaru
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For the sake of this argumnent, why not finding all the pro and con about Kyonism and Haruhiism?
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Old 2008-03-18, 16:06   Link #819
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For the sake of this argumnent, why not finding all the pro and con about Kyonism and Haruhiism?
hmmm...you might s well start a new thread for that.
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Old 2008-03-19, 07:53   Link #820
ganbaru
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hmmm...you might s well start a new thread for that.
The tread The Ontology of Susumiya Haruhi might be appropriate is we go on a other tread for this argument.
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