What's with all this Orihime hate?

[Langus]

Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE

easy easy, we Orihime fans got a lot of hope, you know? Then the Bleach setting itself is a hostile environment to her character, fanboy excuses huh? I put all my hopes into Ichigo-vs-Ulqiorra Kubo even sent Stark to get this perfectly set up and do whatever he has in mind. I have no idea what will happen in the tower, I'm even in for UlqixHime action although I wouldn't bet even one cent on it(Amirali once beautifully wrote down why this shouldn't happen, but ok).

Then the story itself cripples the character development just like it did with Rukia when she has been imprisoned and Kubo sent her into emo-mode with all her "ah no problem, I deserve to die anyways..". But that was twice as hard to endure because of Rukia's usually strong willed character.

Btw, as hc Nell fan I would be seriously pissed off with her turning into a kid again(Geta named it the worst moment in 2008 or something?), but I assume your hopes are as strong as mine

I maintain ardent hope that this reversion to child form is a temporary and fixable problem. Otherwise... I don't want to think about the alternatives...

[Kakashi]

@Wondermike: Good post, nice to hear from someone who likes Orihime for a change.

Originally Posted by Langus

As readers/viewers we SHOULD expect more from her character, but I think a lot of people who are Orihime fans brush those defects in how her character has been written till now off to the side because she's the sweet "nice girl" and doesn't she just look beautiful when she's crying? Hmm, it seems good art can solve any number of character flaws...

I expect a lot from Orihime in the near future, but at the same time my tolerance for her has consistently been high. As of late, Bleach as a whole has become stale so I don't plan to push all of its problems under one rug. I remember reading over some posts on Bleach Asylum and noticed that the majority of memebers claimed to have lost all hope for a plot to return to Bleach. And that 'canon moments' where the only reason they were still reading it. So yeah the manga is in that kind of place. I don't think she's perfect and it frustrates me that she has so much scope and complexity but only fulfills a fraction of it. Yet, for some reason you guys view Orihime as an individual who has all these problems but in reality everything in Bleach originates from one source. I can understand hating her from conception, thinking that what she stands for is completely absurd and sticking with that belief, but otherwise you should be blaming the mangaka for slipping up somewhere along the way.

[WONDERMIKE]

Originally Posted by Hari Michiru

You make the rest of the cast sound like mindless fighting zombies...which Rukia isn't

No, more like soldiers, they have to do their job as professional as possible and end up as tools sometimes. And talking about Rukia she's a good example, she spent most of her time for her career in the army while others had something like a real life... so yes, she's pretty much occupied with fighting/getting stronger/.., to a point where she discarded poor Renji when she got adopted. So yes, Rukia is a professional who puts aside feelings/emotions to do her duty -> definitely not the girly side I was talking about

[Langus]

Originally Posted by Kakashi

otherwise you should be blaming the mangaka for slipping up somewhere along the way.

I thought that's what I was doing...

[Utsukushii Hono'o]

Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE

so yes, she's pretty much occupied with fighting/getting stronger/.., to a point where she discarded poor Renji when she got adopted. So yes, Rukia is a professional who puts aside feelings/emotions to do her duty -> definitely not the girly side I was talking about

Are you serious?

Rukia did not discard Renji. She actually wanted him to protest her adoption. He didn't instead told her to do it. He made friends easily while Rukia did not. That and his being convinced it was better to stay away from her. Is the reason they drifted apart. It was Renji who pulled away from Rukia and not the other way around

Rukia does not put her feelings aside and duty first. To quote Ichigo "Were you thinking about your duty when you saved me last night". Rukia also put aside her duty to go to HM.




Orihime is much the same as Rukia Except...Orihime is just emotionally weak. Her decision to go to HM was a stupid one.


like Langus said..."completely useless and borderline pathetic. "

[Mr. DJ]

*avoids Orihime going to HM argument like the plague, get tired of going in a damn circle*

Rukia does not put her feelings aside and duty first. To quote Ichigo "Were you thinking about your duty when you saved me last night". Rukia also put aside her duty to go to HM.

roles were reversed when the team had to split up in HM (Chapter 248, Page 14)

Renji: Worrying about a warrior's life on the battlefield is only a insult.

Rukia: Moving together huh? No doubt this is because you're worried about me...that isn't really like you Ichigo. I didn't come here, just to be protected by you!

what started off as some sort of "rebelling" by not listening, ended up being a mission set up by Genryusai/Urahara when the Captains showed up. Duty was hardly put aside.

[WONDERMIKE]

Of course Renji wouldn't, he likes her too much to interfere with her adoption, but only because he had no self esteem regarding his social status. She accepted the Kuchiki's offer, so it's also her turn to settle things with her social environment and make sure they don't misunderstand what happens. How can she accept losing Renji over such a stupid reason..

What I meant about her emotions can be seen in the parting scene when they entered Las Noches. Ichigo was worried about her(and the rest) and she just had a "don't waste your care on me, don't protect me, bla" for him, well knowing she couldn't compete with her enemies, but doing her duty as a soldier by entering the battleground no matter what lies ahead. I don't want to put it in an ugly way like useless or pathetic, but that decision was not her brightest while in Orihime's case it indeed was the only choice left, and you certainly have to be either mentally ill or very strong to give in and sacrifice yourself for your friends without hesitation. Orihime saw how Ichigo failed to keep up with stupid Yammy and how Ulqiorra deflected Urahara's attack, Yoruichi ended up injured with just kicking Yammy around - then she had to heal Hitsugaya, a captain, with a freaked out Rangiku next to her, she also had to save Rukia with a hole in her chest -> the situation indeed seemed futile to her

In battle both of them are most of the time useless, but they never give up or try to run away! Orihime even saved Maki Maki from Mayuri's bombs when she was still a noob and tried her everything with Sado/Tatsuki half dead on the ground and Yammy/Ulqiorra in front of her. And she slapped Ulqiorra when he toyed with her.. you remember what happend to oh-so-strong Rukia when Gin payed her a visit? ;p Rukia also accompanied her brother with Ichigo half dead unable to do anything, nobody would call that a stupid move as it was the only appropriate decision to make, again.

You aren't emotionally weak just because you let your feelings out and shed a tear from time to time and you certainly aren't emotionally strong just because you wave around your sword. Or is it the black kimono that gives everyone a boost in emotional strength?

[Utsukushii Hono'o]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

*



roles were reversed when the team had to split up in HM (Chapter 248, Page 14)

Renji: Worrying about a warrior's life on the battlefield is only a insult.

Rukia: Moving together huh? No doubt this is because you're worried about me...that isn't really like you Ichigo. I didn't come here, just to be protected by you!

That wasn't duty, that was pragmatism...

To further answer would go into shipping territory.

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

what started off as some sort of "rebelling" by not listening, ended up being a mission set up by Genryusai/Urahara when the Captains showed up. Duty was hardly put aside.

Actually you could say it was set up by Byakuya. I believe he helped Rukia escape so he would be ordered or volunteer to go save her. Since they were there Genryusai/ Urahara exploited the opening created by Ichigo.( & co) If it was a real plan he could have just sent team SS in along with Ichigo and achieved the same results.

[WONDERMIKE]

Byakuya surely knew about Urahara working on stabilizing the Garuganta, I don't think he would let Rukia go to HM without the option of following her later on, even without Yama's assigned mission.

[cloak_and_dagger]

Originally Posted by Langus

It's not enough to just show her crying all the time and repeating Ichigo's name over and over again.

To be fair, Kubo does not have absolute jurisdiction over the anime...the manga wasn't like that.

Originally Posted by Langus

It's really a shame. I don't know why you Orihime fans aren't up in arms over this. I know I would be if Nel suddenly became a generic moe...

I was upset, since there was absolutely no dramatic effect gained by that repitition..

[Hari Michiru]

Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE

No, more like soldiers, they have to do their job as professional as possible and end up as tools sometimes. And talking about Rukia she's a good example, she spent most of her time for her career in the army while others had something like a real life... so yes, she's pretty much occupied with fighting/getting stronger/.., to a point where she discarded poor Renji when she got adopted. So yes, Rukia is a professional who puts aside feelings/emotions to do her duty -> definitely not the girly side I was talking about

Rukia has shown that she does have...well, you know...a life. Also, she does have emotions too, like the time she 'ran away' from Ichigo (beginning of Bleach), so Byakuya wouldn't kill Ichigo. She wanted Renji to say no too; it was heavily implied in the manga and anime.

If Orihime stands for all the girliness in the world...I would not be considered a girl...

[WONDERMIKE]

Originally Posted by Hari Michiru

She wanted Renji to say no too; it was heavily implied in the manga and anime.

Good for her, but Renji's an idiot and unable to imagine how she feels(just like Ichigo). The outcome was a tear and years of separation. She's always able to hold her "get-yourself-together"-speech for Ichigo whenever he struggles, but in Renji's case she stays silent instead of giving him a kick in the ass :/ I just can't understand why, she never hesitates to expose Ichigo's lame ass no matter what so he pulls himself together. If it is for rules of society we are at duty>heart again, theoretically speaking.

Originally Posted by Hari Michiru

If Orihime stands for all the girliness in the world...I would not be considered a girl...

I'm just talking about bleachverse and I can't find the right word or phrase, so I call it girly, of course I mean the more cheesy and dramatic aspect, kind of Kubo put a Shojo character in his Shonen. Of course it won't work out with everyone from the XX-chromosome-gang being able to relate herself with this character(btw Bleach offers the icequeen-cliché in case it suits you better j/k) what I was trying to say is that Orihime represents a untypical facet in bleach and that's why her fans celebrate something blatant like her being on the SJ Cover. She's the overall underdog whether it is thanks to her lack of offensive powers, the fact she threatens the most popular pairing, her being the only one so far to confess her love, or whatever reason that makes her unique/a shonen-mismatch.

I guess her only classic part would be the damsel in distress, but people hate her because it's Ichigo who has to save her, and this interferes with IchixRuki, so it's teh evil -> even the standard routine won't work out thanks to shipping(my vain wish: Ichigo turns out to be gay and marries Sado!).

But I bet a lot of usually non-Shonen-ppl read Bleach because of her while Rukia(tomboy), Yoruichi(fapulous), Rangiku(same) or Hiyori(tsundere) got an even huger fanbase at Bleach's main target audience.

[Royal_Devil]

Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE

She's always able to hold her "get-yourself-together"-speech for Ichigo whenever he struggles, but in Renji's case she stays silent instead of giving him a kick in the ass :/ I just can't understand why, she never hesitates to expose Ichigo's lame ass no matter what so he pulls himself together. If it is for rules of society we are at duty>heart again, theoretically speaking.

It's called character development. Back then, she didn't have the right attitude to give that support to Renji. Meeting Ichigo and becoming his friend changed that, that's why she's able to give such speeches NOW. With all the "how shounen goes" talk I'm surprised you forgot that the main character often bring positive changes to those he meets.

Or maybe she just likes Ichigo more than Renji

[Hari Michiru]

Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE

I guess her only classic part would be the damsel in distress, but people hate her because it's Ichigo who has to save her, and this interferes with IchixRuki, so it's teh evil -> even the standard routine won't work out thanks to shipping(my vain wish: Ichigo turns out to be gay and marries Sado!).

If it wasn't Ichigo, who would it be? xD That would violate Shounen law #102:

The main character must be the one who makes all of the heroic rescues.

I'm sorry I can't support your pairing...'cuz I want Ichigo dead .

Originally Posted by Royal_Devil

It's called character development. Back then, she didn't have the right attitude to give that support to Renji. Meeting Ichigo and becoming his friend changed that, that's why she's able to give such speeches NOW. With all the "how shounen goes" talk I'm surprised you forgot that the main character often bring positive changes to those he meets.

Yet another Shounen law xD. There should be a book on that .

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by Royal_Devil

It's called character development. Back then, she didn't have the right attitude to give that support to Renji. Meeting Ichigo and becoming his friend changed that, that's why she's able to give such speeches NOW. With all the "how shounen goes" talk I'm surprised you forgot that the main character often bring positive changes to those he meets.

Or maybe she just likes Ichigo more than Renji

I just find it funny that after several decades, it takes meeting one person and knowing him for not even a year to change everything

[cloak_and_dagger]

Originally Posted by Hari Michiru

Yet another Shounen law xD. There should be a book on that .

..There is. It's on Amazon...

[Hellychan]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

I just find it funny that after several decades, it takes meeting one person and knowing him for not even a year to change everything

That probably means that person must a special one

[Utsukushii Hono'o]

Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger

..There is. It's on Amazon...

Is it Shounen Law for Dummies?



Those repetitious Kurosaki-kun's drove me up the wall. But I know it didn't really happen that way. So I want to choke-out the directors not Orihime (For once)


@Helly Chan. Yep, that's what I think.

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by Hellychan

That probably means that person must a special one

...Neo?

[cloak_and_dagger]

Originally Posted by djtrizz

...neo?

rofl!!!!!!!!!!