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Tenzen12 · 2014-03-11, 04:53

It wouldn't be incestious as they:
a)Aren't related
b)Were relatively old when they first met.

Jerseykid · 2014-03-11, 05:03

This Karl kid has like nothing going for him, he's the most boring character ever, he can't even throw a punch! At least Claus from Last exile had expert flying skill.

Arya · 2014-03-11, 05:05

eheheh, for that reason I said grey zone, I used incestuous just to make it clear what I meant. Even if given the way they presented Ariel/Ka-el family in the first episode, and later, it would have felt more incestuous than your average incestuous-long-imouto-title series.

AC-Phoenix · 2014-03-11, 05:11

Well that question never occured to me in my studies until now, but I don't think it would work from a legal PoV until the adoption is declared void.(No warrant) - So I think you are both right.

Panzerklein · 2014-03-11, 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

That's wrong. Ignacio is Nina bodyguard, he is on Island because she is.

They hire Ignacio as Nina's bodyguard to toss him too.

Tenzen12 · 2014-03-11, 06:25

I was pretty sure he became her bodyguard long time before voyage, though because I can't remember where I heard that I might be wrong (but I am quite sure I am not).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya

eheheh, for that reason I said grey zone, I used incestuous just to make it clear what I meant. Even if given the way they presented Ariel/Ka-el family in the first episode, and later, it would have felt more incestuous than your average incestuous-long-imouto-title series.

Well they are very even compared to real sibings, that much is truth. But that's also why I shiped them from ep 1 as they are that close WITHOUT any incest implication that would make it creepy. In comparison to clair, where I can't see more than cliche crush I am glad I can consider Ari to be alternative.

PS: When I learned about Oreimo ending I was squicked so much that I never watched second season.

Kazu-kun · 2014-03-11, 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya

On a side note, I have this feeling that if only this show had more time they would have indulged a lot more on the Ariel/Karl relationship. Crossing definitely the brother / sister harmless white line invading the incestuous grey zone. But it's just a hunch.

Unlikely. After all, it is an adaptation, and I don't think there's anything like that in the novels either.

Arya · 2014-03-11, 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Well they are very even compared to real sibings, that much is truth. But that's also why I shiped them from ep 1 as they are that close WITHOUT any incest implication that would make it creepy. In comparison to clair, where I can't see more than cliche crush I am glad I can consider Ari to be alternative.

PS: When I learned about Oreimo ending I was squicked so much that I never watched second season.

On my part I usually have nothing against it. It's just that I prefer Claire in this show. (Oh, and I didn't like Ariel in the earlier episodes).
About oreimo I don't remember if I dropped it during the first season, but I don't like that loli tsundere in general. I don't even know how it ended. I only know that it disappointed a lot of fans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Unlikely. After all, it is an adaptation, and I don't think there's anything like that in the novels either.

Ah, ok. Maybe it's just me. And the fact that nowadays it is more a standard having (full/half/step/late/whatever)sisters in love with their brothers.

Triple_R · 2014-03-11, 09:04

Kal and Ari have more or less the sort of relationship that I'd expect same-age siblings to have (so I give huge kudos to this anime when it comes to that). The same-age factor is pretty significant - It means that in addition to being close relatives, they're also peers. It creates two tight bonds that naturally results in a certain degree of co-dependency and mutual attachment. Same-age siblings tend to be default best friends, very close to each other, and highly protective of one another. However, having somebody that naturally close to you can chafe sometimes, causing squabbles. Ari and Kal arguing over who the older sibling is reminds me a lot of the sort of fights my own younger sisters (twins to each other) would sometimes have when they were teenagers.

So that's one of the two reasons I never really saw any incestuous overtones here.

The other reason is that Ari is quite clearly pushing hard for KalClaire. Once Ari knew that Kal was interested in Claire, Ari went out of her way to befriend Claire, and do whatever she could to push forward the KalClaire relationship. The contrast here between Ari and Ore no Imouto's Kirino could hardly be starker.

Ari loves her brother as a brother and the closest person in her life. But that doesn't mean it's romantic/sexual. It just means that for Ari and Kal each other's well-being is extremely important, and they feel a need to look out for each other. They're BFFs, by virtue of being siblings and the same age.

KiraYamatoFan · 2014-03-13, 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerseykid

This Karl kid has like nothing going for him, he's the most boring character ever, he can't even throw a punch!

I was quite angry with that too. What's up with the people creating those male protagonists who are wusses? I would have paid money to see Karl take it all out on Ignacio if that might help vent something out of his system.

Gundamx · 2014-03-13, 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

I was quite angry with that too. What's up with the people creating those male protagonists who are wusses? I would have paid money to see Karl take it all out on Ignacio if that might help vent something out of his system.

one never train martial art while the other already have black belt = total loss unless you are in battle shounen manga

kyp275 · 2014-03-13, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

I was quite angry with that too. What's up with the people creating those male protagonists who are wusses? I would have paid money to see Karl take it all out on Ignacio if that might help vent something out of his system.

While we’re on that train of thought, I also find it somewhat meh (but entirely expected) that almost none of the characters in the show behaves remotely like they are in a military. I mean, really? desertion is the only thing that Sonia thought of, when she as a supposed ace pilot herself should’ve taken charge of the cadets.

KiraYamatoFan · 2014-03-13, 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gundamx

one never train martial art while the other already have black belt = total loss unless you are in battle shounen manga

The point I wanted to make was that if Karl was angry, it would have been expected to see his character take his shirt off, get his knuckles out, have a scrap and get on with it (you see the meaning of the metaphor). We saw Ignacio's anger towards Karl, but it was also the perfect moment for Karl to ventd his own frustration at someone or something too since there's no way he was about to take it on Claire/Nina at that point. With that regard, it was a completely missed opportunity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyp275

While we’re on that train of thought, I also find it somewhat meh (but entirely expected) that almost none of the characters in the show behaves remotely like they are in a military. I mean, really? desertion is the only thing that Sonia thought of, when she as a supposed ace pilot herself should’ve taken charge of the cadets.

I agree. Nothing makes sense here at all... even less when there are no dark forces behind the curtains. If there was a dark force, it would justify desertion a little more to the viewer.

About the pilots who left for battle here, I must admit I expected Chiharu to fly out there since she has more or less nothing left since episode 8. It's strange to see the girls being singled out like that regardless of the reasons.

JustThisOne · 2014-03-13, 18:04

Did no one comment on the fact that Ignacio had the brains to bring an AA gun?

Darthtabby · 2014-03-13, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyp275

While we’re on that train of thought, I also find it somewhat meh (but entirely expected) that almost none of the characters in the show behaves remotely like they are in a military. I mean, really? desertion is the only thing that Sonia thought of, when she as a supposed ace pilot herself should’ve taken charge of the cadets.

Sonia may be a good pilot, but she's also only one person. She can't protect a large group of cadets on her own. I have some issues with this episode but Sonia's decision to resign rather than let her cadets be treated as cannon fodder isn't one of them.

VTHokiePride · 2014-03-17, 12:09

I knew Benji and Norippi wouldn't die. If Banderas saved them, what happened to the female officer? What happened to all of their escorts? Did all of them die? In Claire's few seconds, she destroyed over 5 planes and became an ace. She made it look so easy.

greensoulreaper · 2014-03-17, 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Your "King's bastard son, forced out in order to hide the mistress/adultery" speculation is an interesting one on its own. It never occurred to me during the episode, but it can probably fit. It's not why Ignacio is still there - Nina is the main reason for that - But you could still be right in your speculation.

In fact, I hope you are. It would make Karl and Ignacio half-brothers, a neat twist to be sure.

That's what I'm guessing too. They never stated anything about Ignacio having a father. He also has the same eye color as Kalel which doesn't say much as anyone can have blue eyes but still....

JustThisOne · 2014-03-17, 17:08

I have a strange feeling Claire is going to die next episode. I hope i'm wrong.

ellessarr · 2014-03-17, 17:42

wow one of the few rare animes with a "imoto or onechan(sama) and no "incest and we have peoples complain over it, omg the japanese incest idea really start to become soo to commmon who now peoples gonna complain when we dont have

why is so hard have a "normal sibilins" relationship, with a strong bound without mans "romance", omg really the world is changing.

Kanon · 2014-03-17, 17:45

That was a pretty good episode. As expected, Karl decided to heed his mother's words and forgive Claire, which is all she ever wanted. Her guilt probably acted as a mental block that prevented her from using her powers, now that she's been forgiven and has a found a new purpose (protect her friends and her love; I was surprised the love song was actually hers), she can manipulate the wind freely again. I have to say, her powers are really impressive. I wonder how the new government of Basteros is going to feel about this development... unfortunately, with only one episode left, we'll most likely never get to see it. We'll have to see how it goes next week, but I'm bracing for disappointment. There is so much more to be done.

2014-03-11, 05:05	Link #443
Arya Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	eheheh, for that reason I said grey zone, I used incestuous just to make it clear what I meant. Even if given the way they presented Ariel/Ka-el family in the first episode, and later, it would have felt more incestuous than your average incestuous-long-imouto-title series. __________________ *The meaning of things lies not in the things themselves, but in our attitude towards them.*

2014-03-11, 05:11	Link #444
AC-Phoenix Detective Join Date: Aug 2010 Age: 36	Well that question never occured to me in my studies until now, but I don't think it would work from a legal PoV until the adoption is declared void.(No warrant) - So I think you are both right. __________________ Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.

2014-03-11, 09:04	Link #449
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	Kal and Ari have more or less the sort of relationship that I'd expect same-age siblings to have (so I give huge kudos to this anime when it comes to that). The same-age factor is pretty significant - It means that in addition to being close relatives, they're also peers. It creates two tight bonds that naturally results in a certain degree of co-dependency and mutual attachment. Same-age siblings tend to be default best friends, very close to each other, and highly protective of one another. However, having somebody that naturally close to you can chafe sometimes, causing squabbles. Ari and Kal arguing over who the older sibling is reminds me a lot of the sort of fights my own younger sisters (twins to each other) would sometimes have when they were teenagers. So that's one of the two reasons I never really saw any incestuous overtones here. The other reason is that Ari is quite clearly pushing hard for KalClaire. Once Ari knew that Kal was interested in Claire, Ari went out of her way to befriend Claire, and do whatever she could to push forward the KalClaire relationship. The contrast here between Ari and Ore no Imouto's Kirino could hardly be starker. Ari loves her brother as a brother and the closest person in her life. But that doesn't mean it's romantic/sexual. It just means that for Ari and Kal each other's well-being is extremely important, and they feel a need to look out for each other. They're BFFs, by virtue of being siblings and the same age. __________________

2014-03-17, 12:09	Link #456
VTHokiePride Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Washington DC Age: 29	I knew Benji and Norippi wouldn't die. If Banderas saved them, what happened to the female officer? What happened to all of their escorts? Did all of them die? In Claire's few seconds, she destroyed over 5 planes and became an ace. She made it look so easy. __________________

2014-03-17, 17:45	Link #460
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	That was a pretty good episode. As expected, Karl decided to heed his mother's words and forgive Claire, which is all she ever wanted. Her guilt probably acted as a mental block that prevented her from using her powers, now that she's been forgiven and has a found a new purpose (protect her friends and her love; I was surprised the love song was actually hers), she can manipulate the wind freely again. I have to say, her powers are really impressive. I wonder how the new government of Basteros is going to feel about this development... unfortunately, with only one episode left, we'll most likely never get to see it. We'll have to see how it goes next week, but I'm bracing for disappointment. There is so much more to be done. __________________

2014-03-11, 04:53	Link #441
Tenzen12 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012	It wouldn't be incestious as they: a)Aren't related b)Were relatively old when they first met.

2014-03-11, 05:03	Link #442
Jerseykid Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006	This Karl kid has like nothing going for him, he's the most boring character ever, he can't even throw a punch! At least Claus from Last exile had expert flying skill.

2014-03-13, 18:04	Link #454
JustThisOne Eternally Ignored Join Date: Mar 2014	Did no one comment on the fact that Ignacio had the brains to bring an AA gun?

2014-03-17, 17:08	Link #458
JustThisOne Eternally Ignored Join Date: Mar 2014	I have a strange feeling Claire is going to die next episode. I hope i'm wrong.

2014-03-17, 17:42	Link #459
ellessarr Banned Join Date: May 2012 Age: 46	wow one of the few rare animes with a "imoto or onechan(sama) and no "incest and we have peoples complain over it, omg the japanese incest idea really start to become soo to commmon who now peoples gonna complain when we dont have why is so hard have a "normal sibilins" relationship, with a strong bound without mans "romance", omg really the world is changing.