(L) Dragon Ball Super

[DragonOsman]

That would be inconsistent. Jiren is stronger than a God of Destruction. It wouldn't make any sense if, even after defeating Jiren, Goku still couldn't beat Beerus. The only way it could fly then would be if Goku can't go into his mastered Ultra Instinct state whenever he wants.

[justavisitor]

But even gods of destruction, in theory, vary in power level. You are stronger than one god of destruction doesn't mean you are stronger than all of them

[vietthai96]

they are just slightly different, not too much

[DragonOsman]

And we aren't actually told one way or the other, either. But for all we know, they all might really equal or at least roughly equal. Like, there could be such a thing as "God of Destruction-level". It might have tiers, or it might not.

But even if their power level is the same, their abilities and such can be different. Like one being faster than another, or maybe one being more physically stronger than another.

[Tong]

According to the manga Beerus, Quitela and Belmod are the strongest GoD.

Whis has explicity stated that Goku has surprassed GoD level, so it's not relevant which one is stronger or weaker anyways.

[DragonOsman]

Ah, so he already surpassed God of Destruction-level. And did Whis say before Goku got Ultra Instinct -Sign-? Or was it after he got that? Either way, it must've been before Goku got mastered Ultra Instinct.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

And we aren't actually told one way or the other, either. But for all we know, they all might really equal or at least roughly equal. Like, there could be such a thing as "God of Destruction-level". It might have tiers, or it might not.

But even if their power level is the same, their abilities and such can be different. Like one being faster than another, or maybe one being more physically stronger than another.

Jiren may be stronger than the Clown GoD. Even if you use the manga version as defense, Beerus has lasted longer than the Clown GoD.

Just because Jiren is stronger than his own universe GoD doesn't mean much at here. Don't forget that Beerus know UI. While it may not perfect version, Beerus still have the raw stat to back it up.

If the idea of Beerus always +30Lv bothering you that much, fine. I just have to replace the Beerus +30Lv in my original post to Whis +30Lv.

Maybe you like the idea of MC towering everyone in the series, but I would always prefer Beerus to be stronger than Goku so that the relationship between both of them would be much more interesting to see than Beerus became another Vegeta/Picollo that will wait for Goku to save his ass.

[DragonOsman]

Um, Beerus is still powerful in his own right so he wouldn't need Goku to "save his ass" anyway. And if Whis said that Goku already surpassed of God of Destruction-level, then he did. The only consolation would be if he can't always get into Mastered Ultra Instinct whenever he wants, which is possible.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

But even gods of destruction, in theory, vary in power level. You are stronger than one god of destruction doesn't mean you are stronger than all of them

It's not even a theory. It's directly stated in the Goku Black arc (might be manga only there, do not recall). Beerus was stated to be the strongest and the only one that Black was afraid of.

Originally Posted by Tong

According to the manga Beerus, Quitela and Belmod are the strongest GoD.

Was that during the pre-ToP sparring match? I don't recall that coming up.

[Tong]

Well, they were the only ones standing up in the end, with Belmod obviously holding back and faking his defeat for some reason.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

Um, Beerus is still powerful in his own right so he wouldn't need Goku to "save his ass" anyway. And if Whis said that Goku already surpassed of God of Destruction-level, then he did. The only consolation would be if he can't always get into Mastered Ultra Instinct whenever he wants, which is possible.

Vegeta and Picollo used to be strong too and you should know well what happened to them the moment Goku surpassed them? They lost their relevancy and became jobber for the main villain of the arc so Goku can save the day.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Sixth

Vegeta and Picollo used to be strong too and you should know well what happened to them the moment Goku surpassed them? They lost their relevancy and became jobber for the main villain of the arc so Goku can save the day.

In all fairness, despite Beerus's strength, Vegeta's remained more relevant than him throughout the major fights and Goku ends up saving the day regardless. Because whether it's due to his own choice or the circumstances, Beerus has stayed on the sidelines throughout most of Super. The only notable exception of him actually doing something (in the anime) to help the good guys was when he hakai'd Zamasu. And he had his own reasons for doing that.

So if Goku should surpass Beerus, I don't think it'll diminish his relevancy a whole lot since he's only ever preferred to watch Goku and co. handle their own affairs.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Tong

Well, they were the only ones standing up in the end, with Belmod obviously holding back and faking his defeat for some reason.

Ah, okay. So at the very least they're the best fighters, but maybe not strongest (other than Beerus, who we know is).

[DragonOsman]

I think I remember Whis saying in the anime that Goku is at Beerus' level when he used SSB+Kaioukenx20 for the first time. I don't remember him saying that Goku had surpassed God of Destruction-level. Manga canon doesn't count towards anime canon in Super. And then Goku probably surpassed Beerus with Mastered Ultra Instinct.

But if Mastered Ultra Instinct also God ki (and we now it's not a Super Saiyan form), then maybe it too can be combined with the Super Saiyan transformation. Ultra Instinct version of SSB.

[Kazu-kun]

The top GoDs are mostly at the same level. If Goku beats Jiren, chances are he will beat Beerus too.

Mind you, Beerus could perfect his own Ultra Instinct and take the lead, but we know he hasn't been able to master it yet. Until then Mastered UI Goku's the top dog.

[DragonOsman]

If I'm not remembering wrong about Whis saying that Goku was already on Beerus' level with SSB+Kaioukenx20, then when they've both mastered Ultra Instinct, they'll be evenly matched.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

If I'm not remembering wrong about Whis saying that Goku was already on Beerus' level with SSB+Kaioukenx20, then when they've both mastered Ultra Instinct, they'll be evenly matched.

Source? Because I don't remember seeing one.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Sixth

Source? Because I don't remember seeing one.

yeah i don't remember either whis saying which goku already on beerus level, the only thing i remember is whis getting surprised at see goku using kayoken x10 or x20 against hito which showed which goku get evern more strong but i don't recall him calling goku on beerus level.

[SilverGlavenus]

Originally Posted by Sixth

Source? Because I don't remember seeing one.

Beerus was surprised to see Goku using Kaioken x20 and wondered why Goku did not use that against him. Whis asked (teased) Beerus if he was afraid he would lose if Goku used that, to which Beerus was like "Hmph, nope". No one said Goku was on Beerus level.

Though this may change with mastered UI. I wonder if we get to see what it's like to attack with pure instinct.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by SilverGlavenus

Beerus was surprised to see Goku using Kaioken x20 and wondered why Goku did not use that against him. Whis asked (teased) Beerus if he was afraid he would lose if Goku used that, to which Beerus was like "Hmph, nope". No one said Goku was on Beerus level.

Though this may change with mastered UI. I wonder if we get to see what it's like to attack with pure instinct.

I am pretty sure that was KKx10 when he first using it at U7 vs U6 arc. Just saying.