Re:Zero - Character Discussion - Rem

[Joachim]

I guess people especially anime viewer cant help but to adore his blue haired maid.

I mean how can you not adore this character given all of the development and air time that was given to her.

It was pretty interesting seeing people react to her during arc 2 (people calling her with all sort of bad names after killing subaru) and then turn head over heel for her after episode 10/11 and basically raised her status as best girl (heck best girl of all time for me, sorry sheryl) in Arc 3..

And ARC 3 has not concluded yet!, god is there even any contender this year or previous year for best girl? Yes that is how good rem as a character is in my opinion, step away other show girls, this is how you wrote a female character.



And yes I still think nagatsuki tappei is such a savage for doing this, He wrote this character into the story, develop her soo much also get her to play one of the most important character to get the MC out of depression/lowest of his low and just for her not to be the main heroine..

I am salty, but still good job i guess tappei san?

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Joachim

I guess people especially anime viewer cant help but to adore his blue haired maid.

I mean how can you not adore this character given all of the development and air time that was given to her.

It was pretty interesting seeing people react to her during arc 2 (people calling her with all sort of bad names after killing subaru) and then turn head over heel for her after episode 10/11 and basically raised her status as best girl (heck best girl of all time for me, sorry sheryl) in Arc 3..

And ARC 3 has not concluded yet!, god is there even any contender this year or previous year for best girl? Yes that is how good rem as a character is in my opinion, step away other show girls, this is how you wrote a female character.

And yes I still think nagatsuki tappei is such a savage for doing this, He wrote this character into the story, develop her soo much also get her to play one of the most important character to get the MC out of depression/lowest of his low and just for her not to be the main heroine..

I am salty, but still good job i guess tappei san?

I wouldn't give up just yet.

Consider that when Subaru asked Rem to run away with him, he actually asked her to marry him. He didn't ask her to just run away with him, to live with him or "become his family". He said marriage.

I've seen a lot of these kinds of doomed anime relationships. Normally the MC is only interested in the main heroine and sees any other love interest as an "important friend/comrade" or "like family". However, Subaru clearly sees Rem as a romantic love interest. It's just that he likes Emilia better.

Anyway, despite the rejection Rem and Subaru have a closer relationship than ever. So they are probably going to continue with there pseudo-romantic relationship.

[Brother Coa]

Hands down best character in the entire series.

Deserve a spin off of her own.

[Ricadan]

Rem's a lovely and supportive girl, but my problem with her is that she's far too servile to be an interesting character (and hence best girl). I mean, she's only known Subaru for less than a month(?) and she's already idolizing him to the point where she doesn't even bother questioning any of his decisions. So far the only time Subaru has been right on a serious issue was saving the villagers, and that just seems too short of a track record to start having 100% faith in him.

All in all, she makes a perfect maid, but a not-so-great heroine/love interest.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Ricadan

Rem's a lovely and supportive girl, but my problem with her is that she's far too servile to be an interesting character (and hence best girl). I mean, she's only known Subaru for less than a month(?) and she's already idolizing him to the point where she doesn't even bother questioning any of his decisions. So far the only time Subaru has been right on a serious issue was saving the villagers, and that just seems too short of a track record to start having 100% faith in him.

All in all, she makes a perfect maid, but a not-so-great heroine/love interest.

It's true that Rem is actually a bit too much of a perfect waifu at the moment; hopefully that will change. However, you also have to consider a few things.

Firstly, Rem's role in this arc is the same as Emilia's role last arc. She provides unconditional trust and acceptance to counter the lack of trust and acceptance from everyone else. She provides romcom moments to lighten the mood. She's the waifu that makes Subaru feel better after the constant suffering and deaths.

Secondly, Rem's hatred and loathing towards the witch's cult is a rather ugly thing. Even if you ignore arc 2, it was really apparent when Rem was trying to save Subaru from the witch's cult. It's true she was there to rescue Subaru but the hatred she expressed was little to do with them capturing Subaru.

Thirdly, Rem's unconditional trust and servile behavior towards Subaru is less to do with her "pure love" of him and more to do with her making Subaru her "reason to die". She trusts him not because she believes he right but because she decided to trust him. Not that she doesn't love him mind you.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Ricadan

Rem's a lovely and supportive girl, but my problem with her is that she's far too servile

If she was servile, and never questioned his decisions, she would have just ran away with him in Episode 18, as he requested.

Instead, she stood up to him, and said "No, you're wrong about yourself, and here's why". Rem showed considerable courage and strength in Episode 18.

Sorry, Ricadan, but your criticisms of Rem aren't accurate or fair.

All in all, she makes a perfect maid, but a not-so-great heroine/love interest.

She's an excellent heroine and love interest.

[Ricadan]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Instead, she stood up to him, and said "No, you're wrong about yourself, and here's why". Rem showed considerable courage and strength in Episode 18.

Like I said, she's very supportive and that makes her very lovely. Refusing Subaru was definitely the right move, but I'd hardly call that standing up to him as it was just comforting him. I mean, it's not like Subaru wanted to do something Rem didn't want to do; he just wanted it for the wrong reasons, which is why she said no. If anything, that entire scene just reinforces the idea that she has zero doubt in him, which to me seems very servile given Subaru's short track record of being right on important issues.

And perhaps Moridin's right in that she has faith in him for the sake of needing someone to believe in, but that still doesn't change my opinion that her faith is far too strong to let her be interesting.

I'm not saying she can't become interesting or that she inherently can't stand up for herself, just that as it stands now (in relation to the protagonist), she's too faithful to be anything more than a support character.

[Applehell]

While I agree that she certainly idolizes Subaru quite a bit, Rem has never so much denied any of his faults, but rather felt his positives outwayed his negatives in her mind. For all his weaknesses and false bravado Subaru's usually had good intentions and often put his all in whatever he was doing even if their weren't always channeled in the best way due to his internal demons. I think beyond her love for him Rem ulitmately wants serve as exmaple, symbol and reminder to him that it was his effort that she is here today, so he is better than he think he is moreso because few would go as far and beyond inspite of such faults.

[Joachim]

now that you have said it.. Rem and Subaru kinda mirrors each other with their "blind" devotion to their love interest, i would question Subaru's devotion more than Rem's though

[Applehell]

Yep they're pretty similar, though I don't really see why Subaru's is more questionable. Emilia is pretty much been the only person who has support him thoughout the story thus far without obligations. She's even put aside her more important/urgent interests help to him and others almost to her detriment. For him that is rare kind of person and is that trait that basically saved him. Like how Rem fell Subaru's heroic side, Subaru fell for Emilia's highly empathic nature. He's someone who has directly benefited from that trait multiple times and continues to do so even now. She is a hero to him.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Ricadan

Like I said, she's very supportive and that makes her very lovely. Refusing Subaru was definitely the right move, but I'd hardly call that standing up to him as it was just comforting him. I mean, it's not like Subaru wanted to do something Rem didn't want to do; he just wanted it for the wrong reasons, which is why she said no. If anything, that entire scene just reinforces the idea that she has zero doubt in him, which to me seems very servile given Subaru's short track record of being right on important issues.

.

Why does she need to stand up to him? She has faith in his decision making abilities when no one else does. She understands that there is something about him that allows him to predict/know things that other people can't. Where other people still doubt him despite his good track record, Rem does not. I'd hate to think that being doubtful of, and suspicious of ones intentions is a requirement for true love...because it sounds like the opposite to me. And Rem isn't hesitant to state Subarus flaws, she just loves those things about him too. Rem knows Subaru better than he knows himself.

[Applehell]

Subaru's problems with others has less to do with track record (with isn't much) than the sudden irrationally of his behaviors from a outsider's perspective, since nobody but the audience understands why he goes as far as he does due to time shenanigans. Rem is pretty smitten with him now, so she less likely question what he does, but doesn't hold true for everyone else for different reasons. However he has come learn to understand this problem and is no longer trying to make everything all about him.

[Demi.]

His track record consists of risking his life to save multiple peoples lives he hardly even knows on multiple occasions from events that only he seemed to know would happen. If he told me shit was going to go down, I'd believe him. Better safe then sorry, and he hasn't given me a reason to doubt him. Understanding his rationale is less important then knowing he has good intentions and that regardless where his sources come from, they are likely to be true. Rem believes in him because she loves him and he saved her in the past, but the other characters should also trust him because he continues to risk his life for their sake.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Demi.

His track record consists of risking his life to save multiple peoples lives he hardly even knows on multiple occasions from events that only he seemed to know would happen. If he told me shit was going to go down, I'd believe him. Better safe then sorry, and he hasn't given me a reason to doubt him. Understanding his rationale is less important then knowing he has good intentions and that regardless where his sources come from, they are likely to be true. Rem believes in him because she loves him and he saved her in the past, but the other characters should also trust him because he continues to risk his life for their sake.

You have the benefit of being an outside viewer that has seen all of Subaru's actions. Other characters in the series though don't see everything Subaru goes through and just see someone ordering them around and telling them to trust him without any tangible proof to back up what he says. No one is going to risk any of their troops, money, etc on a guy like that.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

You have the benefit of being an outside viewer that has seen all of Subaru's actions. Other characters in the series though don't see everything Subaru goes through and just see someone ordering them around and telling them to trust him without any tangible proof to back up what he says. No one is going to risk any of their troops, money, etc on a guy like that.

I'm talking about the people inside the manor, not the other queen representatives who turned him down. Their tangible proof is that he's saved them in the past from something none of them saw coming. Emilia in particular has plenty of reason to trust Subaru and make a choice based on his character.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Demi.

His track record consists of risking his life to save multiple peoples lives he hardly even knows on multiple occasions from events that only he seemed to know would happen. If he told me shit was going to go down, I'd believe him. Better safe then sorry, and he hasn't given me a reason to doubt him. Understanding his rationale is less important then knowing he has good intentions and that regardless where his sources come from, they are likely to be true. Rem believes in him because she loves him and he saved her in the past, but the other characters should also trust him because he continues to risk his life for their sake.

He doesn't have multiple records unless you take in timelines. Ironically look what happened in first half Arc 2, even though he helped saved Emilia's life, Rem and others still mistrusted him for multiple reasons without even bring up the Witch's scent. Emilia was the only one to defend and put her faith in him at all even though she admitted she was curious about his motives. People defintely care about his rationale something, that Rem, Ram and Betty have all questioned him one point to understand why he's acting so familiar and bringing up things that never happen. Emilia at least had Puck to ascertain that his intentions weren't bad, even if they were a mystery. Subaru wasn't turned away thanks to Emilia, but hard for anyone to accept him easily brcause how erratic his behavior from in one loop to next.

Originally Posted by Demi.

I'm talking about the people inside the manor, not the other queen representatives who turned him down. Their tangible proof is that he's saved them in the past from something none of them saw coming. Emilia in particular has plenty of reason to trust Subaru and make a choice based on his character.

Emilia didn't partways with him because she distrusted him nor was it due not acknowledging his deeds, she did it because worried about him and was hurt by his actions. What possessed Subaru break her promise to stay away from the palace and rest his still lingering wounds from the Mabeast incident? Why did he get into a fight with Julilus considering that? Why did he use magic despite danger it put his life? On top of this there fact he and Emilia had only met in loot house in this timeline, yet fought like had known her. She could overlook everything up til now out of good faith until he broke their vow (something that is considered a sin to a Spirit User if you remember) without any explanitian. Unlike Rem, Emilia wants to understand what is driving him because she is tried of seeing him pushing himself on her behalf to the point where he nearly dies without a so much as why.

The only reason Rem stopped doing it is because she was so broken up till now that she come to cherishes anyone who has acknowledged her existance. She admits she knows nothing about him, but beacuse of what he had done had personally impacted he, Subaru has become someone she doesn't want do without even if it means just staying by his side.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Ricadan

Like I said, she's very supportive and that makes her very lovely. Refusing Subaru was definitely the right move, but I'd hardly call that standing up to him as it was just comforting him.

I think that's severely understating what she did here. It's not like Subaru's mind changed easily. They took almost a full episode on this, and there was lots of shouting and back-and-forth dialogue. Rem had to go to considerable lengths in countering Subaru's words and opinions in order to change his mind here.

If anything, that entire scene just reinforces the idea that she has zero doubt in him, which to me seems very servile given Subaru's short track record of being right on important issues.

Having strong faith in someone is not the same as being servile towards them. I have strong faith in my parents, but I'm not servile towards them.

Your "servile" word choice here is not accurate, and so it's not fair.

And perhaps Moridin's right in that she has faith in him for the sake of needing someone to believe in, but that still doesn't change my opinion that her faith is far too strong to let her be interesting.

I have to be honest - I find your approach to characters here a little strange and kinda cold. Some of the most emotionally compelling anime characters I know are ones that have very strong faith in another character.

You don't find anything the least bit touching or beautiful about this?

I'm not saying she can't become interesting or that she inherently can't stand up for herself, just that as it stands now (in relation to the protagonist), she's too faithful to be anything more than a support character.

Whether or not someone is a "support character" doesn't depend on whether you like them or not.

Rem is clearly a major character in this anime. At this juncture, she might even have more total screen-time than Emilia does. Rem has become crucially important to the plot and story of Re:Zero. Right now, she is a core character. She is not merely a support character.

[~Yami~]

Rem is clearly strong candidate for Female Support Character Award in Animesuki Award 2016

hands down.. during painful times in current arc, we only watched Rem-Zero just for her and not for anyone else

[Ulin]

Candidate? I don't think she's going to have competition...

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

Rem is clearly strong candidate for Female Support Character Award in Animesuki Award 2016

hands down.. during painful times in current arc, we only watched Rem-Zero just for her and not for anyone else

Originally Posted by Ulin

Candidate? I don't think she's going to have competition...

Yeah, I think it's gonna be quite the landslide, personally. Let's try to make it so, eh?