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View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 22 [END] Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 29 | 26.36% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 31 | 28.18% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 24 | 21.82% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 12 | 10.91% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 7 | 6.36% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 3 | 2.73% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 2 | 1.82% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 1 | 0.91% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 1 | 0.91% | |
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll |
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2013-03-24, 14:11 | Link #202 | ||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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You're forgetting another thing you said earlier about unfairness in Sibyl's career assignment. Let me quote you: Quote:
I understand you'll stick to your dictatorship argument, but please understand there's enough evidence that lets some of us believe Sibyl can be reasoned with and changed from within. Quote:
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2013-03-24, 17:51 | Link #203 |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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The first half of the episode was great. The three-way action between Makishima, Kougami, and Makishima was engrossing with much thanks to the piano playing in the background. The conclusion the entire chase with Kougami shooting Makishima was just as wonderful. The sight of them running across the fields really gave the sense of how utterly lonely both of them were. I would even hard a guess and say that Makishima was truly happy as he drew his last breath.
Now, as for the ending, I don't think it could have ended in other way while retaining its credibility as a social commentary. It might have been awkwardly handled, but it had the right pieces. In the same way that the frog at the bottom of the well was happy, I don't think the general populace was all too discontent with how Sybil did its job, minus a few outliers. As sad as it is to admit, the society is nearly completely dependent on Sybil to function in its current state. Akane understood that, and I'd appraise her highly for it. I admit that the impression that nearly nothing changed struck me as a bit off, but in the first place, Akane never struck me as a catalyst for drastic social change. If anything, she's more of an individual that works within the system to do as much as she can to help the people within her reach. Never mind that the law is flawed or that her superiors are corrupt. The best she can do is to do her job well, and hope that something changes because of it. In terms of D&D alignments, she's more of a Neutral Good to me than a Lawful Good. On the whole, I'd agree with KiraraKim's assessment that the ending ends up feeling wishy-washy with what its trying to say. On one hand, you have Akane boldly proclaiming Sybil's imminent doom. On the other, you have that ending scene that's nearly exactly the same as how the whole thing began. Perhaps Gen wanted to highlight how different she was from Ginoza, but it's still too vague to actually look like an actual glimmer of hope. I'm all for a second season if one does come out.
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2013-03-24, 19:11 | Link #204 | |
Guess what time it is?
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Age: 38
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2013-03-25, 02:24 | Link #206 | |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Either way, Akane has always been more about "things she can do right now for the people in front of her" than changing the world. And it's not like one person can change the world to begin with. |
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2013-03-25, 03:46 | Link #207 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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I just don't get what people wanted Akane to do. If she destroys Sibyl, she causes a ton of destruction and despair. That would have been the most out of character thing in the entire show. That's not what she was about, and she's preached just the opposite throughout the show. Her conversation with Kogami in this episode outlined exactly what her thoughts were on the situation. Given that, what other options does she have? The only thing she can do is as Dengar put it, is do things for the people right in front of her.
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2013-03-25, 04:57 | Link #208 | |
:cool:
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Idaho
Age: 32
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Honestly, I think this is one of the better anime endings I've seen in a long time simply because they decided that once Makishima was dealt with, things are just "business as usual." It's realistic, and it fits with the rest of the series quite well. There was never supposed to be a big happy ending where everything works out well in the end. Things just sort of happened, and in the end there were a couple victories and a couple defeats. No big tale of epic conquest or complete societal change. Just another chapter in the life of some law enforcers. You rarely get to see things just go back to "normal" at the end. I wish that we got it more often. Also, Akane was a true badass in this episode and I'm going to fondly remember her as a precedent to female MCs.
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2013-03-25, 05:14 | Link #209 | |||
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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I'm afraid I can't really spare the time to debate this properly anymore, and a few others have stated my arguments for why Akane's choice makes sense in a much more succinct way, especially cyth and Reckoner. So, just some of the key points:
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Though my main argument against Triple_R's proposals (the idea that Akane could start by saying that they're not going to use the Dominators; or that they could remove the brains systematically) is that, as someone else mentioned, she'd have to have pretty much totalitarian control over the bureau (and Sibyl itself) in order to implement them. Or she'd be disposed of. It's either work within completely within the system as she continues to do, or destroy it - and as Reckoner observed, that goes completely against what Akane stands for. That said, cyth, I must admit that I'm not in favour of your solution either... --- I'm not trying to argue that the system isn't bad. But I interpret Akane's decision as one of having the people in the society choose the rules and system of order that they want to follow. As per her admittedly idealistic argument in the final episode, people are always striving for a righteous way of living. And they cannot truly make that choice if someone makes it for them, whether by destroying the system that holds up what they believe to be righteous, by undermining it by cultivating a backlash based primarily on emotion (as revelation that human brains were actually running it would provoke), or by making a unilateral decision to remove what everyone believes is upholding the law without explaining it (which they would have to do if they just stopped using the Dominators). Akane's ideal world would consist of people just like her, people able to distinguish between right and wrong not based on what a system tells them, but based on their own values, and she strongly believes that it is still possible to achieve that peacefully within the system as it now is. I would even argue that to deny that implies denying her own existence. And though they left us with "Sibyl still continues", I choose to hope, and trust that Akane and others in their society are still working towards that hope. As at least one of the credit scenes suggests.
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2013-03-25, 06:02 | Link #210 |
Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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One thing about the position Akane is in at the moment, especially given that she's basically Sybil's right hand woman despite hating them, is that at least for the time being it's basically her job to stop other people's attempts to bring the system down. There will surely be more attempts. She may well have the opportunity someday to choose whether she allows those attempts to succeed. The Hyper-Oats thing would have killed many people, but there might be less dangerous attempts made at some point.
I'm not sure, in those circumstances, what Akane would do. Makishima was a straightforward case, in many ways. |
2013-03-25, 11:00 | Link #211 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Hm... I'm not sure, maybe, maybe not.
Either way, she won't do anything that will raise her Crime Coefficient. Not because she tries to avoid actions or trains of thought that raise it, but because she actually has no thoughts that would raise her Crime Coefficient. This automatically means that notions such as "explode the Sibyl system" or "allow someone else to explode the Sibyl system" don't even occur to her. It just wouldn't be lawful. Don't mistake her for being lawful stupid though. Her idea of law is slightly different from Sibyl's idea of law. Basically it means that law is decided by the will of the people. And if the people will for Sibyl's plug to be pulled, then, and only then, is the plug allowed to be pulled. But NOT if only two or three people want to pull it. |
2013-03-25, 17:59 | Link #212 | |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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Forgot to address this:
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Sibyl is not totalitarian - as cyth has already pointed out, Makishima admitted as much, and they even acknowledge to Akane that they wish to eventually reveal themselves to the public, when they are confident that the public will accept them and choose to retain them as their 'referees'. Akane believes that people are not so naive, and that they will choose to discard Sibyl when that happens. You might argue that Sibyl can simply choose never to reveal themselves to the public, but again history shows that this doesn't work in most cases (the only real questionable case, at least from my knowledge, being North Korea). If a government does not address the needs and wants of its people, it will be taken down, so the only alternative is for it to adapt when enough dissenting voices appear. And there are signs that this was happening in the final credits, despite the laughter of those brains and those final words.
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Last edited by karice67; 2013-03-25 at 18:18. |
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2013-03-26, 07:35 | Link #214 | |
Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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2013-03-26, 08:14 | Link #215 | |
Senior Member
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The real test for Akane is what she does when somebody like that arises. But we might never get to find that out, of course.
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2013-03-26, 17:15 | Link #216 | |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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2013-03-26, 17:50 | Link #218 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Oh, she made a vague threat that she'd stop cooperating once people have completely forgotten what a worthwhile set of laws looked like, but so what? Even if she could destroy Sibyl then, they'd just be deeper into the hole than if she'd lobbed a pipebomb at the brains just after the Makishima case. |
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2013-03-26, 19:46 | Link #219 | ||||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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As for how little has changed, OF COURSE THERE WAS VERY LITTLE CHANGE, IF ANY. That's what change is - slow, and painful for the crusaders. In real life, there are far too many forces and interests at play in constant struggle. Real change is all about making compromises and advancing forward inch by inch, taking bold action when an opportunity actually presents itself, and fortifying position when circumstances look unfavorable. THIS WAS ME SAYING PSYCHO-PASS ISN'T THAT DIFFERENT FROM REAL LIFE. It's refreshing to see in anime. Quote:
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Last edited by cyth; 2013-03-26 at 19:57. Reason: stuff |
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2013-03-26, 20:05 | Link #220 | |
Senior Member
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Ultimately, here's my biggest issue with this ending summed up in a nutshell - Akane should have received some "victory" here. Something concrete. Something that lends some semblance of credibility to her words and her position. Something that validates all of the wonderful character development she had going into this episode. But what do we get instead? She completely fails her mission. Kougami kills Makishima, and gets away. Total failure, from both her perspective and Sibyl's. So much for what she negotiated from Sibyl, as it never became a factor anyway. Later Akane gets into a brief war of words with Sibyl. Frankly, Sibyl's argument sounded stronger to me. Sibyl's position is that through studying Akane, and slowly breaking down her anti-Sybil feelings, Sybil will better learn how to win over the general populace of Sybil Japan itself. That makes sense to me. It's not a bad idea or a bad plan on Sybil's part. Akane's counter-argument is total Dreamer stuff, which is fine if you're giving a Rah-Rah speech to an army before a big battle or to some protest movement before a big march, but isn't terribly good as a lone individual trying to "speak truth to power", as they say. For Akane's argument to feel like a worthy antithesis to Sybil's, I think that we needed to see something concrete that added credibility to it. Something that affects more than just one guy that happens to be close to Akane. Just this little added bit would have done a world of good for the ending... "If you really want to win me over, then there's a suggestion I'd like to make." Akane says, while raising an eyebrow. "Oh, and what is that?" asks Sybil. "Our society would improve if the treatment of latent criminals improved. It would increase the likelihood of them successfully rehabilitating back into normal society, which would in turn bring a greater sense of hope and productivity to Japan. Clearly, locking everybody up in solitary confinement hasn't been terribly productive here. May I suggest we allow latent criminals more mobility and freedom within the facilities that house them? If we want them to psychologically recover then letting them socialize with others like them might not be a bad idea." "Very well." responds Sybil, "We'll take it under consideration." And then, in the Final credits, we see a scene of latent criminals walking freely in the halls of that facility that Yayoi was housed in, making it clear that Sybil ultimately agreed to Akane's request. Just this little added bit would have totally changed my take on this ending. In fact, I might have even considered it a perfect ending then.
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