Eden of the East - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[BlackDove]

Makes sense in the end.

NEET's and everyone he tried to help, even Saki, wanted bigger and BADDER things to happen to the country, just as the emo #10 did. Even in his attempt to save everyone, things still gravitate towards chaos, because the country is ultimately obviously flawed, as we've been given examples of throughout these past episodes (Saki and her interviews, etc.)

We still don't have the pertinent information to deal with all this, but yeah, sucks to be Akizawa. He's pretty much alone in his saviour corner, while everyone else wants change, through carnage if possible.

Key things are still missing though, his apartment full of guns, his being in Washington with a gun, etc. Presumably to kill Saki for some reason.

Eden has something to do with all of this, but what exactly...

Also as expected, #12 connects to no one, because he's the Supporter, and Juiz is the gigantic machine they were standing on, but then most of us already knew she was an A.I.

Final note: This anime pretty much explores the key themes in Ghost in the Shell as expected. The Laughing Man's complex of the Catcher in the Rye, and Solid State Society's system for the elderly and the missing children.

[Alive]

Wonderful episode, it explained a lot but it also introduced some new secrets. It will be interesting to see if Ato Saizou is really Mr.Outside (who is supposedly dead), if he is Selecao #12, or if he is a character that hasn't been mentioned yet. In addition, it kind of sucks to be Akizawa if why he erased his memory was true

[vaden]

Only ¥5k to move Juiz to an undisclosed location?

[Jan-Poo]

Very interesting episode. Many things have been explained, but only a few sounds surpirsing XD

- Juiz was actually an AI (as predicted)
- The Seleçao name is based on the brazilian soccer team (as speculated)
- Number12 is the supporter or otusider himself (as speculated)

The real news is about the identiy of Mr Outside, however it's something that couldn't really imagined since it's a completely new character.
Apparently the Ato Harima company that developed the memory wipe technique is behind everything.

I can't really say that the reason behind Akira's memory wipe has been disclosed. Beside the fact we have only been told he's been betrayed, the details have been concealed to us. Plus I don't think that's the real reason. If Mononobe is actually the one who erased his memory then he's lying, if Akira did, then he most certainly has a valid reason, whom Mononobe ignores.

This last theory maybe is supported by the 20.000 NEETs returning to Tokyo. Why would they be shipped directly to the place they started from? It doesn't make sense if they returned by their own (why still naked?). No I don't believe so, I think this is all going according to Akira's plan. I really have no idea what's going on, but Akira might turn out to be even more twisted than Yagami Light.

About Saki I don't think we can say for sure that she knew already about the seleçao, in this episode she only says what she found out after listening to Akira and Diana through the phone. Also I still find very improbable that Akira wanted to kill Saki. This isn't "total recall" it doesn't look like Akira was a "sob" before erasing his memory, if he kept the same personality as it seems then he definitely wouldn't kill anyone, no matter what.

The last mystery is that woman at the end. She's got the same voice as Juiz. Who the hell is she? Do you suppose she's an android? I already knew that the ATO harima company has some sci-fi technology, but wow... what's next? teleportation devices and warp engines?

[Scarlet Letter]

Wait a moment. Juiz iz defintiely that system they were standing on, but Juiz was also that woman, I mean she had the same voice?

Or was she just the lady who answered the phone and put the orders into that system.



Ahh, I'm so confused. I wouldn't think that lady was Juiz if it wasn't for the fact they started freaking out when they heard her voice.

This last theory maybe is supported by the 20.000 NEETs returning to Tokyo. Why would they be shipped directly to the place they started from? It doesn't make sense if they returned by their own (why still naked?). No I don't believe so, I think this is all going according to Akira's plan. I really have no idea what's going on, but Akira might turn out to be even more twisted than Yagami Light.

Actually, you know how X said the missiles were to be launched in 8 hours? And in the same day the NEETS come back? I think X arranged it for them to come back so he could bomb them like he planned to before except that time Akira stopped him by shipping them out.

[Jan-Poo]

Several hypothesis:

- She's the woman who gave the voice to the system
- She's the lady that answers to the seleçao (improbable)
- She is an android remotely controlled by Juiz

[Dextro]

It's funny that #10 managed to understand that the name "Seleção" came from the Brasilian Soccer team but didn't manage to take note that there are only 11 people in a soccer team and there are 12 Seleção...

This anime is turning out to be very very good and if it wasn't for the small episode count it could reach a level very close to death note imho... It's such a shame it feels like the story is being rushed now :?

[paradox13]

Selecao means 'selection' in Portuguese and is often used to refer to the Brazilian football team.

Several hypothesis:

- She's the woman who gave the voice to the system
- She's the lady that answers to the seleçao (improbable)
- She is an android remotely controlled by Juiz

Isn't she Mr Outside's secretary?

[Jan-Poo]

that might be but that alone doesn't answer why she's got Juiz's voice.

[vaden]

Originally Posted by Dextro

It's funny that #10 managed to understand that the name "Seleção" came from the Brasilian Soccer team but didn't manage to take note that there are only 11 people in a soccer team and there are 12 Seleção...

XII hadn't done anything until relocating Juiz... maybe a substitution?

[taco]

That Android you see is most likely a remote device that is being controlled by Juiz (which is the system). Since machines can't get up and walk to get champagne, Mr Outside most likely built an Android for her (it).

The ending really confuses me. Where the hell is Juiz? XII moved Juiz...but how is that possible when Mononobe's gang was standing right next to it. This isn't just AI we're dealing with, we're dealing with some real sick techniques in the sense that Juiz can teleport, make in real life illusions, and have the ability to kill someone at will; whenever, where ever.

Hopefully we'll get a flashback from Akira in the next episode showing us what he did that made everyone betray him.

[izmosmolnar]

I'm really pleased to see my speculations becoming the truth. The soccer reference was evident, Juiz being an AI was also quite likely, and of course #12 being either Outside or the real Supporter also seems true at the moment (albeit the last episode or the movie can change that later).
It's quite funny how many clues they hinted in the OP. Obviously I have to make a correction and state that the connections found in the OP aren't happening chronologically and not all of them are included on that, however the selecao deaths seems true so far. Which means that I wouldn't be surprised if #10 gets betrayed next episode and killed by #1, or #10 dieing somehow for different reason (maybe killed by his own missile).

Anyway, was it just me who greatly adored the music throughout the episode? I found myself completely speechless how harmonizing the music was to the emotional level. The train-scene with Saki confronting Akira, the Juiz voiced Lady coming in etc.

I'm puzzled by #1 though. Why did he kill Pantsu last episode? All the information he collected to help Akira he precisely revealed it now, including the next missile attack. Then why he had to kill him then? My vague answer would be that he's indeed trying to become Outside (or tries to be another Supporter), and because a civilian like Pantsu found out so many stuff about the system he thought it's harmful for them to let him live.
The problem with that is that he knows #11 too, which means he probably knows Diana doesn't conceal anything from her subordinates, not even the game she plays. Ergo her subordinates know almost as much about the game as Pantsu did. Then how come #1 is not interested in killing them?
The reason #1 approached Akira now, is that he wanted to find out how much stuff he found out. That's OK, but then 5 minutes later he tells him everything he knows! WTH?

The other thing I'm surprised is that Juiz disobeys an order so openly. I mean #1 says: "Juiz, I'd like you to pick a bottle of celebratory champagne for me". Then at the end a lady (I'd say she gave AI Juiz her voice, or a remote controlled android) brings in an empty bottle on her own initiative. I mean, hang on a second. #1 Doesn't specify it that "OK, I'm the winner of the selecao game bring me a bottle of champagne to celebrate the end of it". He could have other reasons to celebrate too. Like celebrating the "friendly reunion" ( ) with Akira, or celebrating for some entirely unrelated reason.
I'm surprised Juiz could assume that she (or maybe I should start calling her "it" if it's/she's really an AI) is "being toyed with" by them, and tease #1 and co by presenting an empty bottle. Or #12 also ordered to change the champagne for an empty bottle? Unlikely.

I think #2 is a pretty cool guy, eh spits on Juiz, and doesn't afraid of anything. Seriously speaking it's strange that according to him he doesn't spend anything of the money. I mean even if he doesn't use the money he'll still going to get killed when one of the other selecaos solves the game. Then what's the point of being completely oblivious about the vast fortune in one's possession, when one don't cares about winning? I also found it funny how his first line was a huge chunk of slimey spit on the "Juiz machine" .

I wonder what's up with the NEETs, and how the hell they survived naked for 2 whole months in the arabian dessert. And obviously how did they return back to Japan. Additionally what about the lad several episodes ago, how come he is already here in Japan? Did his fiancee's family supported him to come home earlier?

Anyway really great episode, and finally some vital answers to the mystery (although it's not impossible #1 is just trolling us, and he lies about some stuff). I'm still expecting plot twists later though. I mean there's still a final episode and a movie coming, there has to be some other twisted revelations happening there.
Speaking of which, I wish they wouldn't bother making a movie and they could have made the series as a ~20-22 episodes long series. The movie is probably at least 90 minutes which is about 4,5 episodes. I'm sure they could have thought about some other events, which could fill 5-6 additional episodes. At least the story wouldn't feel so rushed as it is now.
A bit sarcastically, I know that they probably going to sell the 11 episode long series on one DVD/BD and the movie on a different one, so they can milk the franchise a bit better than a reasonable box set, if it'd be a 2 cour long series. Well, I can't blame them though.

edit: Oh and there was absolutely no Johnny reference this episode! Horray!

[taco]

One last mention; could is be possible that Selecao #3, 6, 7, 8, and possibly 12 have their own Alliance? Are they the good, or the bad guys?

[Kazu-kun]

The credits for this episode listed the voice on the phone as "Juiz" and the woman who appears at the end as "Juiz?".

So, the credits hint that whoever this woman is, she's called Juiz.

[MeoTwister5]

Major revelatory mindfucks.

Much of my initial speculation was somehow correct. I was right that one of the undisclosed Selecao is either Ato Saizo or the Supporter. Based on the event of relocating Juiz it seems more probably that Ato Saizo is still actually alive as number XII rather than the Supporter though. The 5k used to relocate Juiz sounds more like the money needed to transport her AI program to a different supercomputer mainframe than a physical relocation, so I still believe Juiz really is an AI.

After watching this episode I think I've figured out what the Psalm-like words in the OP mean: it could either symbolize the ideal Messiah that Ato Saizo is trying to find for Japan, or a symbolic retelling of the activities of Akira Takizawa himself.

I'll be out of the house for the rest of the afternoon but I'm running the Psalm in my head while I'm out. Can someone repost the entire OP words again for me? I'll be posting my interpretation of the wrods when I work on it when I get back home.

[WanderingKnight]

Beautiful episode.

This series is being everything I hoped for during the first few episodes. The critique against the society built by the seriously fucked up Toyotism of the post-war is building up to levels I've rarely seen in Japanese anime. I'm strongly reminded of Paranoia Agent, but that was an outstanding series by an outstanding director--it wasn't so strange at the time.

Of course, the development as we're presented is leading towards a conciliatory ending (the fucked up people being the "bad guys"), but there is enough evidence of the "evil" Selecao being the crystallization of a rotten society that it's really worth the tradeoff. The guy who launched the missiles in particular--that is the final product of the post-war society.

If they don't go with the conciliatory ending, coupled with the fact that this series is rating particularly high in Japan, it might just become a revolution in the genre, much as NGE was (wishful thinking much?).

Truly fantastic stuff.

[Nobodyman9]

Ah, now this is what I'm talkin' about. Damn fine episode right here. Some more secrets are revealed, we get some info on more Selecao, some nice Akira/Saki development, and a good amount of plot progression. Oh, and I had a feeling that Juiz would be some kind of computer system.

Still, there's so many more mysteries left. I'm very interested in XII and what he/she is going to bring to the table now. Also, I'm wondering what the specifics are of I, II and X's missile attack. I had mentioned the uselessness of the slackers and the elderly, so I'm thinking they may concentrate the missile attacks on those NEETs that ran off the boat.

*sigh* can't believe there's only one more episode left, and then the movie.

[taco]

Yeah, this movie better be at least 2 and a half hours long so we can get every bit of last detail and not have a rushed ending.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

The last mystery is that woman at the end. She's got the same voice as Juiz. Who the hell is she? Do you suppose she's an android? I already knew that the ATO harima company has some sci-fi technology, but wow... what's next? teleportation devices and warp engines?

yeah, i was surprised that she had the same voice as juiz. Still, even juiz being a AI, thet probably used a lot of words from a real person to make her speech more human. I still wonder how is that juiz has the different tones of voices and different personalities depending on the person. she seemed cold to kando and warmer to akira.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Several hypothesis:

- She's the woman who gave the voice to the system
- She's the lady that answers to the seleçao (improbable)
- She is an android remotely controlled by Juiz

- She's a Vocaloid.