Character discussion - Alicia

[Unknown Soldier]

She has the twintails in the game.

[Velsy]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

That exactly what makes her tsundere archetype you know. There are original tsundere's and neo tsundere's. Original development is linear - the go from angry/not friendly to friendly/nice one's and do not return to being mean again, while a neo tsundere's are developing in spiral - they slowly move to being nicer, but they usually always switch between mean and nice.

Alicia lacks personality strength to be a good tsundere, yet she still has quite some of tsundere qualities that are more visible when you compare her arguably more plain game version with anime one.

What because she treats him hostile as a possible spy, Alicia being a town guard, a protector of the City. You expect her to serve him tea, cookies and bake bread for him?. That just goes to show she was taking her *town guard position* seriously. His suspicous behavour is what confused her imo to act hostile and detain him. She didnt understand the way he thought. Then when shes put into the same squad as him and made as his non-commission officer, shes like "ack, why am I being put with that wierdo" as she doesnt know much about him.

Her hostility towards him was not because she is tsunder. This makes logical sence.

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Prongs

hmm twin pony tail, brown hair.............i'm really sure she is a tsundere

Twin tails do not a Tsundere make.

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

That exactly what makes her tsundere archetype you know. There are original tsundere's and neo tsundere's. Original development is linear - the go from angry/not friendly to friendly/nice one's and do not return to being mean again, while a neo tsundere's are developing in spiral - they slowly move to being nicer, but they usually always switch between mean and nice.

Alicia lacks personality strength to be a good tsundere, yet she still has quite some of tsundere qualities that are more visible when you compare her arguably more plain game version with anime one.

Perhaps, but I'm stuck comparing her game version to Edy, the true Tsundere of this series, who has had, if I recall correctly, one line in the anime so far. Alicia has never, even in her anime incarnation, come close to the Tsundere....ness... that Edy has.

What I think is actually happening is that they (A-1) are Flanderizing her.
Disclaimer: I am not responsible for time lost while following a TVTropes link

[kalbron]

Compared with her game incarnation, for the first 7 episodes Alicia was a tsundere. Now they seem to have imported the real Alicia from the game. Maybe they got told that Edy filled the tsundere quota and Alicia was liked for her original personality?

[Velsy]

*throws hands in the air*

I give up lol, some people will only read what they want to read. Ima save my effort if people are seriously not going to read.

[justinstrife]

Just starting the 2nd mission of the game and I LOVE Alicia in the game already.

WTF did the Anime do to her?

[Darknemo2000]

Followed the trend.

Tsundere is being modern these days, as tsundere characters are so popular.

They want money, and yes, tsundere's make more money than normal girl characters. As they are simply more popular. Making a crappy love triangle is also supposed to do that (though I am not sure if it's effective. It doesnt seem like many girls watch it, and this triangle was made mostly for them).

The weirdest part is that for 7 episodes Alicia was a tsundere but now they import her real personality. I know some of you say that it just shows her depth and that the real Alicia post 7 episodes was there from a beginning, but for me it shows a crappy character development and presentation if that part of Alicia was not even visible for seven episodes and becomes dominant after. This is not a development, simply because it was not properly hinted before, thus feels like a totally different personality.

If you want the change look natural, change gradually and show bits of it before. now however it looks like completely different personality was imported after 7 epsiodes because of crappy build up of her character.

PS. Twintail's is most characteristic tsundere feature. While many tsundere's have different style this style is the most dominant one. Thats why having a twintails make you a great suspect of being tsundere even if your personality was not even showed yet.

Though right now, the most tsun-dere of all tsunderes is not the one with twin-tails. She has long pink and straight hair, is a mage, has a whip and is called Louise, but it still doesn't change the fact that twin-tails is the style that has been associated with tsunderes most of the time.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Velsy

I give up lol, some people will only read what they want to read. Ima save my effort if people are seriously not going to read.

Yeah i just gave up on this discussion weeks ago. Believe me, people only read what they want to read, and there's no room for a discussion regarding this topic.

At least it looks like you have the same thoughts as me, so that's something.

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

The weirdest part is that for 7 episodes Alicia was a tsundere but now they import her real personality. I know some of you say that it just shows her depth and that the real Alicia post 7 episodes was there from a beginning, but for me it shows a crappy character development and presentation if that part of Alicia was not even visible for seven episodes and becomes dominant after. This is not a development, simply because it was not properly hinted before, thus feels like a totally different personality.

If you want the change look natural, change gradually and show bits of it before. now however it looks like completely different personality was imported after 7 epsiodes because of crappy build up of her character.

I do not think they handled her growth well. Her change out from border-Tsun to a more balanced and complex character was sloppy. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that your threshold for tsundere is lower than it should be.

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

PS. Twintail's is most characteristic tsundere feature. While many tsundere's have different style this style is the most dominant one. Thats why having a twintails make you a great suspect of being tsundere even if your personality was not even showed yet.

Though right now, the most tsun-dere of all tsunderes is not the one with twin-tails. She has long pink and straight hair, is a mage, has a whip and is called Louise, but it still doesn't change the fact that twin-tails is the style that has been associated with tsunderes most of the time.

Or Taiga? Or Shana?

[Swine Flu]

Alicia's character completely changed after ep 6. Compare Alicia frm ep 6 to ep 7. 2 different characters. Although, you could say Welkin saving her brought this change. Anyway, im not complaining. Tsundere Alicia was getting a bit annoying

[Unknown Soldier]

Her faces aren't nearly as interesting now.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

Or Taiga? Or Shana?

Taiga and Shana are tsundere-moes without a doubt but when I think of the character that is the most tsund-tsun and the same time dere-dere it is Louise. Shana gets weak in her tsun mode later on, Taiga is more misunderstood than really mean, Nagi is also lacking more of tsun side. Louise (though through character growth in the novel mellows a little and becomes much less annoying, but in the anime it never happens she is basically the same as her character never develops in the anime) is what you could put in as a first example in a dictionary explaining a tsundere meaning.

All of your mentioned tsundere's are real tsun-dere, yet when it comes to the best example it is Louise as both of her tsun and dere are raised to the maximum.

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Her faces aren't nearly as interesting now.

That's because she lost her tsund side which was mostly responsible for the funny faces she was making in the beginning of VC.

The switch at leats in my eyes in ep 7 is too random and fast to call it character development. If you want to see a character development look at Sheryl from Macross F. Thats what I call steady and well done character development - she is bitchy in the beginning but gradually opens up and lets one see that she is not that bad as you initially believed her to be and because it is done steadily it really makes you believe that she had this other personality inside her to begin with. Alicia's development is way too random and not steady at all, her personality switch looks out of place instead of being invoked by the character progression.

Thats why for me it looks like two different Alicia's rather than a different side of the same Alicia.

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Taiga and Shana are tsundere-moes without a doubt but when I think of the character that is the most tsund-tsun and the same time dere-dere it is Louise. Shana gets weak in her tsun mode later on, Taiga is more misunderstood than really mean, Nagi is also lacking more of tsun side. Louise (though through character growth in the novel mellows a little and becomes much less annoying, but in the anime it never happens she is basically the same as her character never develops in the anime) is what you could put in as a first example in a dictionary explaining a tsundere meaning.

All of your mentioned tsundere's are real tsun-dere, yet when it comes to the best example it is Louise as both of her tsun and dere are raised to the maximum.

I wasn't arguing that Louise is not a good example (Louise is a great example). I was giving other tsundere examples sans twin-tails. I have more.

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Thats why for me it looks like two different Alicia's rather than a different side of the same Alicia.

I agree with your point here. Alicia in the game's development made sense. In the anime? Not so much. Maybe they can bring it together later, but I highly doubt it.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

I wasn't arguing that Louise is not a good example (Louise is a great example). I was giving other tsundere examples sans twin-tails.

There are tsundere's that are not twin-tails and there are those who are like that. So you may wonder why exactly twin-tails are considered to be the main hairstyle implying that the character is a tsundere? It's not from anime's or manga but from eroge (erotic japanese games, you know dating one's). The twin-tails in eroge games is very popular style between tsundere's it became very popular after Evangelion ended. Asuka, who became the most famous anime tsundere at her own time, had similar style to twin-tails. Not exactly the twin-tails but something similar. The first few Eroge of those years games even blantly copied Asuka's looks (some even had the similar names - Asusa, Azusa, Asuna) replacing Asuka's famous A-10 connectors with ribbons or something like that.

Soon however the started to simplify the hairstyle turning it more and more into twin-tails (and changing hair color from red into more various one. Can't say that red colour popularity comes from Asuka but more from our everyday stereotype that red-heads are more explosive though).

After Asuka we had a spark of twin-tail famous tsundere's like Rin, Eri or Nagi and hundreds of others lost in those eroges. But because of twin-tail popularity as for looks for tsundere's whenever you see a character with twin-tails in eroge there is a 85% chance that she will be a tsundere. This stereotype is still popular, though not as massively as before.

[Velsy]

first it people complaing about the anime and the game version of alicia, now its the complaining of the ep 1-6 to ep 7.

Just funny.

continue

[Darknemo2000]

Velsy, your comment is rather random and out of place isn't it?

At least the way current discussion is going no-one complains about Alicia (or ep 1-6) but rather it's a discussion about why she was chosen to be the way she was (together with why Alicia's appearance is counted tsundere-like).

[Velsy]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Velsy, your comment is rather random and out of place isn't it?

At least the way current discussion is going no-one complains about Alicia (or ep 1-6) but rather it's a discussion about why she was chosen to be the way she was (together with why Alicia's appearance is counted tsundere-like).

no

because all I see is complain complain complain. Then accuse her of beening tsundere, which I beleive thats just people trying to make an excuse why she different from her anime char or something. Her hostility early on towards Welkin is because shes a leader in the town watch, doing her role in protecting her city. Was a mistake, we all knew it but being arrested for trout watching is kind funny. Shes kinda an adorable char I think. I've already stated my whys previously.

ah but I said too much. I dont care anymore what people say I guess, guess its time to get the popcorn back out and watch the rants and complaints being thrown at Alicia again.

continue

[Tamad]

Originally Posted by Velsy

no

because all I see is complain complain complain. Then accuse her of beening tsundere, which I beleive thats just people trying to make an excuse why she different from her anime char or something. Her hostility early on towards Welkin is because shes a leader in the town watch, doing her role in protecting her city. Was a mistake, we all knew it but being arrested for trout watching is kind funny. Shes kinda an adorable char I think. I've already stated my whys previously.

ah but I said too much. I dont care anymore what people say I guess, guess its time to get the popcorn back out and watch the rants and complaints being thrown at Alicia again.

continue

Not to be crude or anything, but I find it ironic that one of your previous posts states your saving of effort because people don't read... when you yourself aren't reading. I might just be seeing it in a different way, but I haven't even seen much complaining around these topics for a good while...

You also stated that you haven't played the game, so I don't think it's very fair for you to say that people are just trying to find an excuse to claim that anime Alicia was different from game Alicia. No I don't expect Alicia to give Welkin cookies and such when she thought he was a possible spy, and game Alicia did treat him hostile, but the way anime Alicia and game Alicia handled the hostility were completely different. Anime Alicia was a lot more combative, snarky, and conceited to Welkin when they first met, which in turn are qualities of a tsundere. Now I don't know if I <i>would</i> call her a full on tsundere during the first six episodes, but I'll admit that qualities were there at least. If you don't consider her to be a tsundere, then that's all you, I don't see why other people labeling her as one should bother you.

In the end I probably wasted my time writing this post, since you don't care what anyone says anymore. I'm curious as to what is bugging you about this tsundere conversation (the complaints long faded away in my eyes) anyways... Some people who quite liked Alicia's game personality just as you like her anime personality were a little taken aback that her personality was completely changed to suit the anime, I don't really see a problem in that, and I don't see why anyone would be surprised at some complaints or even arguments to break out concerning it.

And about complaining about Alicia in general, I think there are so many other changes to the adaption that her personality was the least of my worries... especially now that she seems to have warmed up and got back on track. She was still lovable and amusing both ways though.

[hephalonia]

Well, personally I mostly like anime Alicia. She's a tough young lady in "battle mode" but still far from superhuman, which is a trait I like. With personal issues however her behaviour is a bit too general imo, as in she's got the standard romantic sense of a nine year old... [sarcasm] I guess it's tricky to make things different as things would evolve too fast given they're at war, where everyone knows people focus only on romances. [/sarcasm] Might just be me wanting a bit rougher war story. Can't take away that she's awfully cute at times though, e.g. the cottage ep. All in all she fits well with the current story and characters.

*resists temptation to write sarcastic comment about the t-word discussion*

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Velsy

no

because all I see is complain complain complain. Then accuse her of beening tsundere, which I beleive thats just people trying to make an excuse why she different from her anime char or something. Her hostility early on towards Welkin is because shes a leader in the town watch, doing her role in protecting her city. Was a mistake, we all knew it but being arrested for trout watching is kind funny. Shes kinda an adorable char I think. I've already stated my whys previously.

ah but I said too much. I dont care anymore what people say I guess, guess its time to get the popcorn back out and watch the rants and complaints being thrown at Alicia again.

continue

Don't worry we will, because obviously discussing with the person who does not read others posts is pointless.

I already said that the current discussion is about why the changes were brought and not if she is a tsundere or not. And yet you continue complain about us calling her tsundere while it is not even relevant to the current discussion.