2014-05-15, 15:41
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Link #1101 | |
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Banned
Join Date: May 2014
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also I doubt ichi can do anything other than to cry if he dies.. I mean she is quite useless other than singing and love triangle.. what can she do if even if she knows he is in danger.. Oh well inb4 next ep or next 2 ep has a scene where mitsu sees ichi singing while looking at the west star in the sky Imo ichis role in the story is to turn caesar, if the spoilers for ep 21 is true, then caesar will play a role because he is the only character who has (good?) Relationships with people in both stars and ichis role is to make that connection between east/west and I have a feeling that caesars decisions in future will determine how the story ends Last edited by jfs90; 2014-05-15 at 16:18. |
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2014-05-17, 05:31
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Link #1102 |
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Banned
Join Date: May 2014
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So Ichihimes character song was released a couple of days ago... the OST cover has ichihime holding a metallic scale, http://www.animeosts.net/music/nobun...-chihara.1984/
Its an obvious reference to Lady Justice http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...66917471,d.bmk, the ROMAN goddess of justice who holds a scale (duh) so ichis character song happens to depict her as a Roman goddess.... Also episode 21 is where caesar was supposed to reappear.. and its titled 'The Justice'.. i think its going to be a Caesar/Ichi episode lol OH WOW... i read the lyrics for ichihimes first character song Name of Flower.. Spoiler for Lyrics:
I translated it (though its pretty rough) but its obvious the first part of the song refers to mitsuhide... it talks about regret at not expressing her feelings honestly, and how she wished she can go back to those days and be more honest with her feelings etc BUT the second part seems to be talking about a different person.. its something like this: The person who is honest and straight I want to watch that figure as he changes I wont hesitate anymore, i will follow my heart I will wait for his return to tell him The lingering scent of the far-off days that can never be returned to will never disappear But right here and now, i have an important person, i want to be the place he can come back to and wait for his return I want to welcome it warmly in my heart...Vividly... The Name of the Flower that has bloomed That person will call it Love WOW.. i think my shipper heart just exploded.. i mean the song was released 3 days ago and what happened in the last episode before the song was released? Mitsu and Ichi reunited only for her to worry about caesar and look sad when she heard he has not returned and was still in the West star... 3 days later her song was released where she referenced about 'waiting for his return'... who the only one still missing and whose fate is unknown at this point in the story? too good to be a coincidence also 'That which that person calls love'.. well i can only think of one guy who is romantic and has declared to everyone he loves her.. Last edited by jfs90; 2014-05-17 at 08:21. |
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2014-05-18, 09:20
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Link #1103 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Do you have the lyrics for Jeanne's songs? 
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2014-05-18, 10:20
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Link #1104 | |
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Banned
Join Date: May 2014
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Quote:
The song refers to 2 different people.. the 2nd person is described as 'gazes at her straight and honestly' (caesar is honest about his love for her and keeps his promises' while mitsu never said he loves her and also isnt honest about nobukatsu)' and 'wants to watch as that figure changes' (caesar changed from being a jerk to a noble selfless person after he married her, it was highlighted repeatedly when he fought cesare and saved mitsu) and it specifically says 'AlTHOUGH the scent of the old days will NEVER disappear' (she will always have affections for mitsu) she NOW has someone important to her (mitsu was always her first love so wouldnt make sense) and she wants to be a place where he can return to (caesar betrayed the west star for her and probably lost his original home , and the takeda lands, his base in the east 'happened' to be destroyed last episode too.. caesar has no place to return to so she wants accept him, that would make sense idk to me the 2nd part is obviously caesar Last episode she was clearly very worried about caesar.. consider the fact that if caesar returns she will have to remain his wife and she cannot be with mitsu.. yet she still worries for him... she has already made her choice imo There is even a line in the 2nd part of the song saying 'be safe' that is my wish.. mitsu is already safe when the song was released, last episode only caesar whose fate is unknown as of the time the song was released so yeah... But I guess we will find out Just google the japanese title of the product you should be able to find the japanese lyrics And the 2nd song oath for my dears talks about war torn days and how she worries about someone and how at the end of the day she wants to lower his sword with her own hands and be there to support him I mean mitsu uses a sword but he doesnt actually fight in war he is a strategist.. contrast to caesar who uses a sword and by his own admission has fought in countless wars and battles And like I said earlier the cover for ichihimes ost with her holding a metallic scale is a clear reference to lady justice, the ROMAN goddess (caesar also happens to call her megami aka goddess) so hints ablut her changing feelings in her songs + a depiction of her as a roman goddess.. and ep 21 is titled 'the justice' the tarot which usually has lady justice in the card and is supposedly the episode caesar reappears... so yeah make your own conclusions from that Edit: even google translates 大切な人 as 'significant other' and I translate it as important person.. and the last part of the song is clearly refers to a singlular person.. I listened to the song and it says 'hito' which is singular Last edited by jfs90; 2014-05-18 at 10:45. |
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2014-05-18, 12:33
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Link #1105 |
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Banned
Join Date: May 2014
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Boring episode...
Mitsu lusting after the wife of the man who saved his life... Next ep caesar is back finally! looks like he has his hands tied and is brought before arthur And that last supper painting with mitsu jellying over caesar... again? Last edited by jfs90; 2014-05-18 at 13:03. |
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2014-05-18, 13:18
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Link #1106 | |||||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Quote:
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 That's the flower of love. It's all speaking of Mitsuhide, she's pushing her feelings aside until everyone is safe at home. Then she can tell him honestly her feelings.Quote:
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Last edited by Thess; 2014-05-18 at 13:29. |
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2014-05-18, 14:03
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Link #1108 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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2014-05-18, 14:04
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Link #1109 | |
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Banned
Join Date: May 2014
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Quote:
If i knew that it will not come true Could the feelings be scatterred? No matter how many times it is repeated The words i yearned to say were not sent The pain of leaving it behind Leaving behind only regrets If possible, i would return back to those days To have the courage and determination To choose to tell to the person Now it is out of reach, the name i yearned for Along with the nostalgic days If i knew it was not allowed Does the feeling to yearn not bloom? (not sure about this part) Even is the sin is commited repeatedly These feelings will still be like bright and colorful flowers (Pause followed by drastic change in tone) The person who gazes at me straightly and honestly I want to watch the figure as it changes So i will not hesitate anymore It does not matter even if it is foolish, for it is what my heart wants I will wait for your return to tell [Be Safe] This wish, the name i call for Along with a new day The lingering scent of the far-off days that can never be returned to will never disappear But right here and now, There is an important person To be a place to return to, I want to welcome warmly In the depths of my chest…vividly… The Name of the Flower that has bloomed That person will call it Love First lets make it clear that i only use google translate as a secondary tool.. i have JLPT N2 so i can understand when hito remains singular or plural... and i listened to the song multiple times and the hito used is very clearly singlular in the context.. Character songs are meant to reflect the characters personality, and last episode ichi and mitsu was reunited,but she clearly worries for caesar who was specifically mentioned to be in the west star...and i meant REALLY WORRIED if you dont believe me here you go http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/b...9919676242.jpg is it a coincidence the song is released 3 days after Ichihime made that face for caesar and shown hints for the first time that she might have developed feelings for him? maybe but im guessing its not.. Did you even listen to the song? there was a transition of tone between the 2 parts.. the first part had a melancholy tone, the 2nd part has a more 'happy' tone EXCEPT for the part where it says 'EVEN THOUGH the scent of the far-off days will NEVER disappear ' (YES, she will always love mitsu no matter what his sins) , then BUT right now (でも今は), i have an important person (taisetsu na hito) its clearly referring to the fact that she will always love mitsu no matter what, but now she wants to accept the '2nd person' (and it makes sense like i said she clearly also really cares about caesar, look at that picture again if you dont believe me) and again it will make sense she now wants to accept him after all hes done for her.. and the WISH part (Be Safe) is it also a coincidence that she worries for caesars safety and 3 days after the episode this line appeared in her character song? like i said maybe im reading to much but for me the pieces add up nicely enough to believe.. imo her expression in that picture i posted to you has 'please be safe' written all over it And waiting for 'your return' is clearly referring to someone who has not came back yet.. it uses anata (you) so its not a group of people ... and like i said at this point in the story only one person has not came back yet and who she expressed concern for specifically? yeah But if you dont agree thats fine, i just want to ship them and im happy with the character song (And are you also going to tell me that Ichihimes depiction as a ROMAN goddess in the character song cover, and the fact that caesars mecha name, quo vadis, is the name of a story where a ROMAN general fell in love and half forcefully married a foreign barbarian princess who is a great beauty, who hated him at first but eventually fell for him is all random coincidences) Last edited by jfs90; 2014-05-18 at 14:36. |
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2014-05-18, 15:45
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Link #1111 |
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Banned
Join Date: May 2014
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Er so this episode did mitsu half hope nobu will not return so he can be the savior king and have ichihime?
Meanwhile in ep 20 preview Caesar : a lone light shines through the darkness of this world, that does not know love. I will do anything to protect that light. Wow if only ichihime can hear that.. then again she probably already knows caesar is in the west doing stuff for her sake based on her expression last episode.. cant wait for them to meet again How much better than mitsu must caesar be? I mean he didnt show up in this episode and still outshines him |
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2014-05-18, 16:07
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Link #1113 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Quote:
Ichihime is holding Scales (which has been back in many goddesses specially Isis, the distinctive trait of the roman goddess of justice isn't the scales, but the blindfold which you know, Ichihime lacks). That's all. There's no "roman goddess" intention when she's dressed in her usual kimono. Again, I think you're just looking at this too deeply. I'll advice you to tone down the shipping, because you'll be likely disappointed. Also: 想う気持ち = feelings (of love/romantic love). In case you had trouble with that phrase, I noticed a lot of people don't know 想 is used for romance (in general, not you, they often mistranslated unrequited love: 片想い). Quote:
 I'm reluctant to watch the episode tonight if it did.
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Last edited by Thess; 2014-05-18 at 16:19. |
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2014-05-18, 16:17
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Link #1114 | |
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My Lord
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: United Kingdom
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Even purple haired girl dressed up Jeanne slave clothes before torturing her |
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2014-05-18, 16:25
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Link #1115 | |
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Banned
Join Date: May 2014
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Yes sono hito is that person, but the last line in the song goes 'ai to hito...' which can be translated as 'the person will call it love' and in the context of the song thats how it is intepreted I only used that person since its easier to be intepreted in english.. but that last line clearly refers to a singular person Songa like this arent always in proper concise japanese because they have to make the song flow like how in english usually lines in songs have to rhyme and stuff.. each line had to 'sound nice so they bent the grammar rules BUT in the context of the song thats how it should he intepreted.. so you actually have to read between the lines and understand the message theyre trying to tell you.. In SOME cases the last line can be plural but in the context of the 2nd part of the song its clearly singular.. and if it wants to say 'people' the song can just specifically use hitobito (people) like 人々 Heres an explanation i copied: Yes, 'hitobito' means people, and 'hito' means a person. Having said that, unlike English, the Japanese language does not strictly differentiate singular and plural, and therefore 'hito' can often mean people when it is naturally understood. The entire song uses 'hito' and refers to a person clearly, like im saying its about context and meaning.. but i guess ask a native speaker to explain to you Last edited by jfs90; 2014-05-18 at 16:50. |
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2014-05-18, 16:35
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Link #1116 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Quote:
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Sorry but it seems you're only reading between the lines at your convenience (or what you think it means), like the way you ignore how the verses are broken up and how that will change the entire meaning. Translate p/verse as unit as it should be translated and you'll see the last verse is all about Mitsuhide. She can't forget it. The scent (flower scent, hint) of those distant days she can't return will never fade. Then she simply says she has to remain there to welcome the people she cares about and as their home. But that flower that has bloomed at her chest so vividly, people will say is the flower of love. Very simple without making up unnecessarily extrapolations. That's the correct interpretation. I heard that Caesar reappears next episode, the Sun.
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Last edited by Thess; 2014-05-18 at 16:50. |
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2014-05-18, 16:56
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Link #1117 | |
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Banned
Join Date: May 2014
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Quote:
Like i said... ALL the statues outside of courts ALL OVER THE WORLD holds scales that are BASED on Lady justice, the roman goddess..people COPIED lady justice.. but she is the original.. but if you dont believe me suit yourself... Also you are right that SOME goddess holds scales... but there is only one goddess that fits in the tarot card 'the justice' and that is well yeah lady justice.. And i did not break up the verses but translated each line as it is.. and like i said the line says she is waiting for A PERSONS RETURN, the line specifically says ANATA, aka you, your, so no she is not waiting for people to return, but a single person, singular...あなたの帰りを (YOUR RETURN) aka singular.. and again as of the time the song was released whose return was she waiting for? who was she clearly worried for? even if HIS RETURN would mean she has to remain his wife and CANNOT be with Mitsu (who happens to already be back, thanks to caesar)? what happened in the episode just before the song was released? http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/b...9919676242.jpg Basically that line is 'I will wait for your return to tell you' if you disagree with this i give up.. yeah my guess is there will be a romantic caesar/ichi moment in this episode 21 (thats when caesar 'returns'), especially since preview for next episode clearly has caesar saying : there is a light in the darkness that does not know love, i will do anything to protect that light This is my intepretation anyway if you dont agree we will all find out in 2 weeks... Last edited by jfs90; 2014-05-18 at 17:12. |
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2014-05-18, 17:16
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Link #1118 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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You seen extremely defensive about your flawed shipping symbolism. Did you read the Golden Branch at least to pretend to be knowledgeable of the matter of the ancient pantheons and their evolution? I was speaking of the last verse, which prefers to her role of needing to remain there to welcome people but knowing her feelings (symbolically the scent) will never fade. You're obviously taking different moments of the song.
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2014-05-18, 17:34
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Link #1119 | |
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Banned
Join Date: May 2014
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Quote:
And once again... episode 21 is titled the justice.. the justice tarot depicts lady justice, a roman goddess who holds a scale on her right hand.. ep 21 is also when caesar appears before nobu and co...ok? So you agree that 'wait for your return' singular and refers to one person ? (Anata) and the other part which actually means something like ' I want to welcome warmly and be the home to return to' which can be a reference to caesar... he is the only one who lost his 'home' by betraying the west star for HER sake.. and it would make sense in context since she is pretty much all he has left I mean I can see ichi choosing caesar as what finally pushes mitsu over the edge Last edited by jfs90; 2014-05-18 at 17:50. |
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2014-05-18, 17:44
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Link #1120 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Wow, I'd thought this episode would be boring (because meh, Nobu), but it was actually very interesting and pretty intense. Even Nobu's parts were good, brought down only by Miyano, unfortunately the worst of all was in the crucial scene. :/ (More and more I dread Nobunaga Concerto...) But Kenshin was really nice, and FINALLY, MITSU IS GOING TO DO THE THING, DO IT MITSU, DO IT, I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS FOR 19 EPISODES *ahem*
As for Jeanne, I really could've done without the gratuituous nudity but I was even more bothered by the censor beam (I mean really - if you're going to do it do it properly...), but her part was kind of hilarious. Mysterious Voice: JEANNE! ACCEPT YOUR VISIONS! Jeanne: No! Because they're bad and they bring misfortune and everyone hates me and I must suffer WAAAHH *ANGST, PAIN, TORTURE* Jeanne: No no no I'll never ever accept them-- Nobunaga: Dammit just accept them already! Jeanne: Okay, if you say so. Also, first Caesar trolls Mitsu, now Leonardo. I wonder what Leonardo's purpose is. In any case he managed to work Mitsu pretty well. Come on, let's Honnouji!!Also, apropos Leonardo - holy shit, 2ch was right re: The Last Supper. I didn't want to believe them because I didn't think Kawamori would actually go there, but he did. So who's going to be Jesus, Arthur or Nobunaga? Arthur is already kind of a Jesus figure, if we stop to think about it, but Nobunaga as Jesus would be extra hilarious. Preview: Oh hey, look who's back.  And... is Arthur a girl? Eh? Last time he had a male voice. And is she brainwashing Caesar or seducing him? or just reaffirming his faith in her(?)?ETA There's no way that Kenshin is dead. He'll appear in the next fight scene with Alexander, sporting a nice eyepatch or something. |
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