Macross Delta - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by FlamingMangos

Spoiler:

I believe its going to even get better for their relationship after Hayate finds out that Freyja was slowly dying without him knowing. He'll be closer to Freyja than ever knowing she's weak and is suffering.

Also, a little rant of mine. It's quite disappointing that no confession happened at the end since the mood was just so damn great with Do You Remeber Love BGM playing..

Spoiler for Freyja = Sheryl?:

Freyja is ironically pulling a Sheryl on us of not wishing to burden Hayate (which is a good show of strength for her character, too); however, it's even more so an eye-opener how Hayate picks up on it after the fiasco of episode 20 (wherein a dozen people on here said their communication issue persists).

This episode is a good show of how much these characters know each other by now that Hayate could sense (without Mirage or help of her rune color) something is off about Freyja and is concerned about it. After all, Kaname defending Mikumo (even as no one really "knows" her) in this episode is a good show of Kaname knowing Mikumo based off their time together as an idol group (they're companions who risk their lives for each other on a daily basis).

All around, I like character development for those in Chaos this episode; I only wish our other lovely Aerial Knights could receive similar treatment. After all, Roid and Keith are the only ones really receiving spotlight on that side.

Originally Posted by Thess

Spoiler for heinz as a doormat:

I'm sure what happened with those NUNs forces was an eye opener to Heinz. He was just always obeying Roid at this point because he believed he had the same goal as he: peace and justice. It would have been unrealistic for Heinz to turn against him unless he had a concrete reason. Roid had been the one who had been by his side since the first episodes of the show, so it's naturally a kid would trust him.

It's painful to watch him in the first half of the episode, though;

Spoiler for Heinz:

because he is sidelined by Roid (which isn't singing for Windermere his role in his eyes?) and is actively encouraging the Aerial Knights to believe in Roid and it's "all for the good of Windermere" while his so-called "character development" from last episode (however little) vanished (and god did I have a flashback to prior people saying this is a Ranka trope; guess it's filed under Heinz, too, now).

Originally Posted by Thess

Spoiler:

And yeah, Keith's turned against Roid (finally?!). But what can he do? Roid controls the military forces. Anyway, this has been foreshadowed for ages and the glacial pace was annoying as hell. I'm pretty sure is to spare Hayate from killing Roid when he doesn't want to dirty Freyja's song.

Depends on where this final showdown will go in terms of what will happen.

Because,

Spoiler for Brera in Frontier:

you bringing up Brera in the Frontier movies reminded me of something important from the second movie in regards to his "final stand": of which Galaxy actively outright sends fighters and/or Vajra at him while he's blowing everything away until he's inside the place and blows it to bits (alongside himself). He's not focused on anything around him (final battle, S.M.S., singers) and is going in for a kill.

Keith could pull this situation off himself for the final episode.

[Thess]

Spoiler for frontier 'parallels':

Mikumo = Ranka
Freyja = Sheryl

In their climax songstresses roles. Sick, agonizing singer and the singer kidnapped and forced to sing by the enemy forces.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Thess

Spoiler for frontier 'parallels':

Mikumo = Ranka
Freyja = Sheryl

In their climax songstresses roles. Sick, agonizing singer and the singer kidnapped and forced to sing by the enemy forces.

And, ironically; this is my vibe:

Spoiler for parallels:

Heinz = Ranka
Freyja = Sheryl
Hayate = Alto 2.0 (even if I don't want to like this )
Mirage = ??? (I'll go with Klan for now, as her role in this episode is similar to the "is that your love" scene in episode 23)

Mikumo = Ranshe (Ranka's Mother)
Roid = Grace
Keith = Brera 2.0

*The reason Mikumo has vibes of Ranshe for me is because she is pushed into doing something she knows is wrong; unlike Ranka who was brainwashed, which is how Heinz comes off in this episode.

It's based off where this episode has gone though.

And sorry, replied a little late to your prior Heinz bit towards me. ^^;

[Urei]

Ugh, for me this episode was somewhat of a good example of the whole Delta series:
- mix mash of plot lines while adding new ones,
- talking,
- standing in line and listening to other people talking,
- Hayate x Freya shipping,
- gasping Mirage with little development,
- the one and only interesting thing at the end.

There's a ton of things to resolve and only 1 rpisode left. I get the feeling we will get a cgi valkyries fighting galore and a music video epilogue that will try to gives some answers about other characters.

[D-Joe]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

I'll save a big chunk of my review for this episode till subs are released:

Spoiler for Another exposition episode filled with character(s) who needed development and oh yes; our love triangle is coming closer to ending?:

Ironically, my arguments from a week prior hold true on Wright doing it for a bigger picture and/or good cause ultimately (even if I don't like how dropping a bomb and killing hundreds of civilians in this series is written off as "it's for a good reason").

Minor character bits in this episode:
- Makina is alive and is recovering and Chaos is awaiting her full recovery (or it's the impression I received in the first minute of the episode). Reina is by her side for a majority of the episode (good show of friendship). Also like how Freyja is in her room, too.
- Chuck receives a meal from his family; it's a sweet scene for him until I remember his family members have not been around/shown since episode 16... and it's a little awkward.
- Hayate discovers his father is not a bad person. It's more than a little too convenient Makina and Reina discover a voice recorder in his VF-22 which contains a voice recording of his final moments. This plot convenience thing is like a fanfic right now...
- Arad and Kaname reminiscence over Messar, which is cool: The salute scene is painting this moment as a "parted as friends" vibe for their ship in general.
- The Aerial Knights learn of Heinz dying. This scene is a little pointless without subs because I don't know if it's really holding any relevance to what Roid is inquiring about...
- Keith is finally evolving into a Brera 2.0; he's actively disagreeing with Roid on where everything is going and actively says he does believe Roid is "off his rocker". This is good character development for him! Even if it's a little late for him to redeem himself for Heinz, he could redeem himself for the series itself.
- Heinz is... god... Roid is pushing him aside in favor of Mikumo in this episode and logically Heinz should be a little concerned over his role in general now. However, Heinz is a doormat for Roid. His character is not developing at all in this episode.

Then this episode displays our triangular on a level of Frontier (minus kiss scene):
Mirage knows Freyja is hiding her real injury (is not an injury, however, from Mirage's perspective, it could be), and I love how later on she confronts and knows he really wishes to be with Freyja right now, and insists if he wants to, he should go be with her (or along those lines, it's very close with her more than once mentioning it's not his place to be in the loading dock during this time). Of course, subs will tell me why he is apologizing to her (prior love confession in episode 20?) prior to rushing off to find Freyja.

The scene with Freyja is beautiful:
For one, it shows how Freyja is knowing she is dying and is pulling a Sheryl on us of not wishing to weigh him down (hiding her signs of age, insisting they go back, not confessing her feelings), and it's obviously showing for him because prior to the package delivery, he begins to question her attitude (she's not overly excited to talk to him like usual, shows how he picks up on her feelings even if her rune is not blue).
Then it's showing his side; because he's not secretive about family business and openly allows her to surf around in his box. Hell, he even says "it's no big deal"!
The scene of both re-reading his handwritten notes is so beautiful; their faces are drawn really well in this scene to look "nostalgic", and final scene is of them on the beach on Ragna... I love this scene of them showing how connected they are even now.
The scene where Freyja confirms it's his father who did give her the music player is... off. I mean, at this point, it's so foreshadowed... and once it's delivered, no words are exchanged for Wright and Freyja... and Freyja hides it in present time, too.
The final scene where he is confessing "I'll protect you, your home, and Ragna" is beautifully played; now it feels like Hayate knows where his "home" is (a discussion which grew in episode 14 and never flew anywhere); and I believe he's more than implying his home is not just Ragna, but Chaos, too. (Or specifically, it could be Freyja because he places her above Ragna.)

The love triangle, at this point, is one-sided or never existed from the other half (as Mirage is a supporter and not a contender); however, I like how it's developing now. Because Mirage is signing herself off so she can develop in general as a character for the final episode (vibe I received) and I'd like to see her final fight!

Spoiler for Some parts:

Hayate didn't notice anything about love from Mirage, he apologizing just because he is going to find Freyja after Mirage told him do that, nothing more.
In the end, she leave this crap triangle too late, her writing can't be redeemed.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by D-Joe

Spoiler for Some parts:

Hayate didn't notice anything about love from Mirage.
In the end, she leave this crap triangle too late, her writing can't be redeemed.

Spoiler for Mirage:

Well, he apologizes for something which, without subs, is hard to validate what he is apologize for.

Mirage has potential for in the final episode becoming a character that if a movie follows this series could be developed more into... I guess, a character which is stronger on her own? I don't know; at this point, her character is so geared towards helping other people with their issues that she has not focused on herself and it'd be good that if a movie does come for her to focus on herself (outside of where her feelings for Hayate are going).

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Urei

Ugh, for me this episode was somewhat of a good example of the whole Delta series:
- mix mash of plot lines while adding new ones,
- talking,
- standing in line and listening to other people talking,
- Hayate x Freya shipping,
- gasping Mirage with little development,
- the one and only interesting thing at the end.

There's a ton of things to resolve and only 1 rpisode left. I get the feeling we will get a cgi valkyries fighting galore and a music video epilogue that will try to gives some answers about other characters.

Indeed. Well, it was a great show for 1-13 episodes.

At least the Wright stuff was resolved and did the NUNS stuff, so there's one thing out the way for the finale.

[D-Joe]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

Spoiler for Mirage:

Well, he apologizes for something which, without subs, is hard to validate what he is apologize for.

Mirage has potential for in the final episode becoming a character that if a movie follows this series could be developed more into... I guess, a character which is stronger on her own? I don't know; at this point, her character is so geared towards helping other people with their issues that she has not focused on herself and it'd be good that if a movie does come for her to focus on herself (outside of where her feelings for Hayate are going).

Spoiler for Why:

Should i expect anything from movie if the Director and writer still same?
And no, his apologizes doesn't mean anything big.

[Thess]

Most likely, Mirage's flying issues are going to be resolved by showing Herman she can let go. I don't like this completely tack on development introduced last episode, but what can you do about it.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by D-Joe

Spoiler for Why:

Should i expect anything from movie if the Director and writer still same?
And no, his apologizes doesn't mean anything big.

Oh, I'm not implying you should; it's basically my hoping (which is all I could do at this point in Delta) for a brighter outcome (wherein a movie basically ties up loose ends versus this final episode next week).

Because a 2-hour movie could wrap everything up nicely versus a 24-minute episode...

[D-Joe]

Originally Posted by Thess

Most likely, Mirage's flying issues are going to be resolved by showing Herman she can let go. I don't like this completely tack on development introduced last episode, but what can you do about it.

Yeah i know, it's not like i'm going send something to Satelight's office, even i really don't like it.
Fortunately there is a place called "forum" to let people complaining about it, though guess i won't do that a lot since next week is the ending, i can leave this show for a while after that, at least i hope.

[Dash_Hunter]

About what I expected from the episode, a "the calm before the storm" type of episode, too bad we had many of those in this series, well at least most of the plot lines and plot holes were resolved (even if not in the best way) to make room for the big battle.

I liked the Hayate and Freya scene, they are great when they are not being stupid , I also liked that Mirage was the one to tell Hayate to go find Freyja, because let's be honest, this was never a real love triangle but in the story we were always shown that Mirage developed feelings for Hayate, but in this episode Mirage realizing that Hayate and Freyja like/love eachother tells Hayate to go with her because of how Freyja's been acting and with that it seems like Mirage has accepted that she has no future with Hayate and she will be able to move on, which is good

Now to wait for the subs to understand everything and hopefully at least the last episode will be great.

[Thess]

I think she realized his potential feelings earlier, during the birthday episode, while Freyja's during last episode.

[CriiGV]

Mirage had an inkling about Hayate's feelings for Freyja since episode 16 when she asked him about it and then the snow scene.

Episode 17 when she watched Hayate make googly-eyes at Freyja while she was singing onstage and at the beginning of said episode when she watched the exchange of Freyja blushing and Hayate staring at her. Episode 18 when Hayate gave Freyja a thumbs up after they made up. Episode 20 when Hayate kicked the wall because he was angry at himself for making Freyja afraid to sing. That same episode when they were arguing about quitting flying/singing for each other. Episode 23 when Hayate told Freyja to sing and even though he was in pain, he put on a brave front for Freyja. The final straw I believe was episode 24 when Hayate put himself in harms way to protect Freyja from Bogue, then volunteered to die first and his final words to Mirage were to "Take care of Freyja". And lastly, Hayate's smile at the end for Freyja (while Mirage watched the exchange) before he was about to jump to his death.

The hints were all there. I'm just glad we were able to avoid all the drama of rejection. Hopefully Mirage will fly freely in the last episode and it'll be her character resolution about how she's been liberated from her problems.

[Thess]

We don't know yet if they are going to resolve the triangle, though. They could ignore the romantic resolution considering we have 22 minutes left to wrap up everything.

[magnuskn]

Yeah, the wrap-up will be rushed, there is almost no way around it. Frontier had non-stop action for 1 1/2 episodes and before that one of the best romance scenes to start out the whole ending.

Delta kinda-sorta has set-up their finale with the last two minutes of this episode. Unless they do a suprise third cour or a direct sequel in a movie, this cannot end but super rushed.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Yeah, the wrap-up will be rushed, there is almost no way around it. Frontier had non-stop action for 1 1/2 episodes and before that one of the best romance scenes to start out the whole ending.

Delta kinda-sorta has set-up their finale with the last two minutes of this episode. Unless they do a suprise third cour or a direct sequel in a movie, this cannot end but super rushed.

Speaking of rushed, they kind of dealt with the NUNS in like less than 3 minutes...

I don't know if it'll have a lot of action when the last episode is called "Eternal Walkure" (which I expect to be more of a song off), tbh. I just expect some Hayate dancing around Keith and Mirage finally breaking free from her stiff piloting style, while everyone else disappears from the battlefield as far as battles go.

Spoiler for rumors:

There have been rumors all past singers will appear in the last episode. I'm not sure if I believe them or not, but it doesn't look Kawamori's going to end this on an epic space battle. That's why the NUNS fleets got destroyed. To me, it's heading more to 'personal arcs wrap up' to resolve the plot.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Thess

Speaking of rushed, they kind of dealt with the NUNS in like less than 3 minutes...

I don't know if it'll have a lot of action when the last episode is called "Eternal Walkure" (which I expect to be more of a song off), tbh. I just expect some Hayate dancing around Keith and Mirage finally breaking free from her stiff piloting style, while everyone else disappears from the battlefield as far as battles go.

Spoiler for rumors:

There have been rumors all past singers will appear in the last episode. I'm not sure if I believe them or not, but it doesn't look Kawamori's going to end this on an epic space battle. That's why the NUNS fleets got destroyed.

I don't know if I believe the final bit; but I'm right up there with you on the vibes that this final episode will be a song battle more than a space battle.

Unless Kawamori is sadistic and plans on a space battle regardless, where Chaos fights Windermere (as in its whole military)... Of course, it'd be a one-sided battle because Chaos is outnumbered and as said NUNS is dead in the water at this point so it's not going to be a good showdown at all. And if Delta is not going for a repeat of Frontier, Quarter will not be showing up as a backup (or their version of "Quarter" LOL).

[Thess]

I don't think they'll have a big space battle because of the last minutes. It just seems they want to avoid it for reasons (too cliche or budget, whichever ). Also the whole story can be resolved without one, IMO. Even if there's one for Hayate's and Mirage's skills, we wouldn't even see anyone fighting but those two for convenience's sake.

Whatever, I hope we see Hayate dance because it was cool and makes me remember the times Delta had promise.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Thess

Whatever, I hope we see Hayate dance because it was cool and makes me remember the times Delta had promise.

I'm with you.

However, I also want him to shoot down (not kill because it'd go against all he's promising in these final 2 episodes) Bogue. Please,... for the love of god, shoot him down so he'll learn not all earthlings are wastes of space...