Teresa vs. Priscilla: What Really Happened?

[Jean Claymore]

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

Dude, I don't even know what you're arguing any more. And I think you need to go back and re-read the Marked For Death chapters.

......Was the plan explained before they took action? Aren't you the one who're inventing it all? I've recently re-read the chapter before starting all this discussion.

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

Dude, did you not read this response from Gooral?

Man, you're still not catching up with the topic.... the real QS was not based on its precision, the real master of QS based in the speed, not on the accuracy it could reach within the distance. Actually, we were on WC vs QS.

[khryoleoz]

Originally Posted by Jean Claymore

......Was the plan explained before they took action? Aren't you the one who're inventing it all? I've recently re-read the chapter before starting all this discussion.

...

Originally Posted by Jean Claymore

Man, you're still not catching up with the topic.... the real QS was not based on its precision, the real master of QS based in the speed, not on the accuracy it could reach within the distance. Actually, we were on WC vs QS.

I thought I was on topic. There was no question about the accuracy/precision (or lackthereof) of QS until Flora challenged it with her WC. And when it was challenged, it was challenged when its use was inferior by a factor of 1/5th of its potential as used by Irene! And what I've always argued was that despite the nature of QS being a berserker technique didn't make it inferior to WC. Then Gooral responds saying Irene was a master of QS not by her superior control of it (even giving evidence unconvincingly by relating the destruction of the room and Irene's particularly stated response to Teresa) but by the strength with which she wields it. I am maintaining that Irene is the master of QS both by the strength in which it is wielded and the capacity (which includes its precise control) to use and keep using it to achieve results as she intends provided that superior swordsmen (like Teresa and Priss) are not obstacles to her intent. So where am I missing stuff?

[Jean Claymore]

Geez, my post got deleted once again

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

I thought I was on topic. There was no question about the accuracy/precision (or lackthereof) of QS until Flora challenged it with her WC. And when it was challenged, it was challenged when its use was inferior by a factor of 1/5th of its potential as used by Irene! And what I've always argued was that despite the nature of QS being a berserker technique didn't make it inferior to WC. Then Gooral responds saying Irene was a master of QS not by her superior control of it (even giving evidence unconvincingly by relating the destruction of the room and Irene's particularly stated response to Teresa) but by the strength with which she wields it. I am maintaining that Irene is the master of QS both by the strength in which it is wielded and the capacity (which includes its precise control) to use and keep using it to achieve results as she intends provided that superior swordsmen (like Teresa and Priss) are not obstacles to her intent. So where am I missing stuff?

Agreed with how's Irene a master of QS by the strength and the way she wields. If I comprehended it correctly, seems you're poiting Irene was still improving the QS since she wanted to equal the swordman like Teresa. Quite possible if I understood what you meant.
Well, putting aside Irene was controling perfectly the QS, I doubt 'bout your argument if it was Clare who wasn't capable enough to reach only 1/5th of the original QS or the WC which hadn't its great potential as QS. I know Irene's version was much faster than Clare's but still, Clare didn't just learned it; she earned it by the arm given being totally capable on using the QS normally. Honestly, I wouldn't guess the gap was 'bout 1/5th since Clare was given an already adapted arm to use the QS and it only mattered the mental control to prevent from awakening. I think she was way closer than... I don't know if you or Gooral wanna state Clare's QS being mixed with the WC's advantages of being more precisional but they certainly are different abilities.

[khryoleoz]

Sorry, what I did forget was the precise factor by which Clare's QuickSword was inferior to Irene's. She said it was 1/2 of hers. I must have took the 1/10th at which she pegged Clare and multiplied it by 2.

[irvinethearcher]

Found something interesting, fitting for priscilla:

Originally Posted by Alfred Hitchcock

'The better the villain, the better the picture,'

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by irvinethearcher

Found something interesting, fitting for priscilla:

......I don't get it

By picture, is he referring to the story? If so, I can agree

[irvinethearcher]

I think he speaks of the story and the entire movie.
Like we know from "Dark Knight" the quality of the movie is highly correlated to the quality of the villain. Hitchcock was right, i think.
If the villain is boring or flat no one will fear, hate, pity the villain and therefore there will be no deep sympathy for his antagonist, the hero also.
I think priscilla is a good villain.

[Kaser]

Sorry that i did not have time to read the entire thread to see if this was mentioned BUT Clare would not be able to have Irene's ability if she wasn't an aggresive fighter, which was caused by wanting revenge for teresa, otherwise she might have been defensive letting her regenerate.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Kaser

Sorry that i did not have time to read the entire thread to see if this was mentioned BUT Clare would not be able to have Irene's ability if she wasn't an aggresive fighter, which was caused by wanting revenge for teresa, otherwise she might have been defensive letting her regenerate.

We mostly all agree on how Teresa's death effected the rest of the series and Clare personally (this part of the debate was fully agreed on for the most part by page 2 )... so... because of that this thread though is 99.5% for debating exactly how strong Teresa was and how large Priscilla's current at the time of the fight & feared potential [latent] power would have been vs Teresa's power (the never ending debate in Claymore ). That whole QS thing popped up at the end of the latest round of the power debate and pretty muck killed the thread.

[Gooral]

Maybe Joe_fh will reanimate it someday. He still has unfinished business with me .

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Gooral

Maybe Joe_fh will reanimate it someday. He still has unfinished business with me .

Oh god... what did I miss??? Do tell!

[limao]

Teresa vs. Priscilla: What Really Happened?
The true is that Priscilla shit herself in extreme fear and the resulting combustion gas propelled her forward giving her enough speed to surprise Teresa.

This is the most accepted theory

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by limao

Teresa vs. Priscilla: What Really Happened?
The true is that Priscilla shit herself in extreme fear and the resulting combustion gas propelled her forward giving her enough speed to surprise Teresa.

This is the most accepted theory

I take it it was the poisonous gas low to the ground that killed Noel and Sophia... after all such simple stab wounds couldn't have killed those two.

[Verkruk]

Originally Posted by Ryus

I take it it was the poisonous gas low to the ground that killed Noel and Sophia... after all such simple stab wounds couldn't have killed those two.

Was a combination of the gas and wounds.
The wounds caused them to lose their footing and fall to the ground, where they were then exposed to the noxious fumes. Sealing their fates.

Only Irene was immune by virtue of being...!!! AN ELF! NI!

[Gooral]

Awesome Gernot was kind enough to translate these two pages. It should become obvious now to everyone that Teresa never said Priscilla will surpass her and that Orsay suspected Teresa was the strongest warrior in the annals.

Originally Posted by gernot

怖いな - scary
こいつの奥にひそむ潜在能力は化物だ
The potential lying dormant within her is a monster (monstrous?)
こいつはこれから先とてつもなく強くなる
In the future, she will become unbelievably strong
今回切り伏せる事ができても
Even if / even though I can cut her down this time
次回はどうなるかわらかない
I don't know how it might turn out next time
________________________________________________

そしてつけられた名が微笑のテレサ
And the name she was given was Smiling Teresa
クレイモアと呼ばれる者の中で最強の女だ
Among those that are called Claymores, she is the strongest woman.
ふ。。。違うか - Hhm, maybe not
最強の女ではなく - Not the strongest woman
最強の化物だな - but rather the strongest monster

[Shiek927]

Gooral, not to restart the argument, but how is this any different then before? It's the same exact thing.

Maybe you're getting a different interpretation, but I don't see how Gernot's words change anything at all; different wording, but otherwise, the same exact thing.

I don't see how this changes anything, much less confirming that one side is right and one side is wrong.

(*has no intentions of restarting the argument, but is well aware that that's what's going to probably end up happening anyway )

[Gooral]

You're basically right Shiek but somehow many users see this dialogue as: "Priscilla will surpass me" instead of: "I don't know how it will turn out". What's also funny is that Teresa's words might be read as "even if I defeat her" which shows Yagi's intentions - he didn't want the outcome of the fight to be obvious and wanted to keep the reader in suspense. The fact is however that Teresa wiped the floor with Priscilla and later she said to almost awakened Priscilla that in such state she won't be able to win.

We know that Teresa had her own monster inside and we know that even Teresa couldn't tell at the time which one was stronger, hers or Priscilla's. But once they both released youki it became obvious whose was stronger. Of course to be 100% sure we would have to see them both awakened and fighting to the death but comparing Teresa's and Priscilla's factors by which their power increased suggests it's not necessary.

Anyway, I wanted this line to have a literal translation so that there would be no room for speculating that she said "Priscilla will surpass me".

Edit:
Yeah Shiek.

[Shiek927]

In summation, the possibility of Priscilla indeed surpassing her is still there....it's just more "up in the air" rather then 100% confirmed, like some people believe.

I think that's the gist of what you're trying to say(?), right?

[Gooral]

BTW, in Mangahelpers tournament claymore Teresa won with awakened Prscilla:
Teresa: 21 votes = 80.77%
Priscilla: 5 = 19.23%

I wonder what Ryus has to say about that :>.

[Shiek927]

It's a popularity contest, what's to say about it?

Maybe it didn't start that way, but that's how these things usually end up anyway.