Fate/Zero - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

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[Sheba]

This episode made me feel fucking sorry for Lancer team. And that's an understatement.

[Horse]

I thought this was the first Zero episode in a good while that was Actually Good. Sure there was a lot of budget saving but it still had a fight and nice pacing. And the first trailer music helps too.

[ChronoReverse]

That was intense.

[FlavoryFantasy]

Saber vs Lancer, i felt sort of amused by all the showing off, that those 2 did.
Twirling their weapons around and what not.

RIP Lancer, Kayneth, Sola, and Risei.

and so the relationship between Kiritsugu and Saber worsens even more...
Heh seeing Kiritsugu's angry glare was a sight to see.

Next ep - The Eighth Contract Hooray for the return of the only master currently without a servant.

[DakkerDB]

Well, well, well. I believe this episode serves as a perfect example of "Being Lancer is suffering".

Quite a few interesting turns this time, with the bit after Lancer's team's final departure from the stage being especially nice. I went from being shocked, to feeling disgust at Kiritsugu's actions, to sort of agreeing with his position (if not really his methods).
I believe in Saber's and Kiritsugu's argument, Kiritsugu had the point of view I agree more with. A battlefield stained with blood and the deaths of countless souls is hell, no matter how much chivalry or honor may try to sugarcoat it.

Still, doesn't mean I agree with how brutal and underhanded he's being. If it's already hell, you don't have to be an extra large bastard about it.

[Linkark07]

Who didn't feel sorry for the Lancer team?; it was sad seeing the cheap trick Kiritsugu used for make Lancer kill himself and then make Maiya kill Sola and Kayneth.

But between those three the one that should have deserved more was Lancer-kun. Poor guy was treated like scum by his master, betrayed by him too and in the end he couldn't even finish the only thing he wanted in the war: finish his battle with Saber.

No wonder Saber was extremely angry, I bet if she wasn't bound by a contract she would kill Kiritsugu immediately.

In the end Kiritsugu was right though although I don't like so much the idea of staining the hands with all the evil of the worlds just for end all the suffering.

[Jarmel]

Originally Posted by Linkark07

Who didn't feel sorry for the Lancer team?; it was sad seeing the cheap trick Kiritsugu used for make Lancer kill himself and then make Maiya kill Sola and Kayneth.

It's war. Kiritsugu is the only one who is aware of that.

Originally Posted by DakkerDB

Well, well, well. I believe this episode serves as a perfect example of "Being Lancer is suffering".

That seems to always be the case. Oh man such a shit way for him to go.

[konart]

Originally Posted by Linkark07

Who didn't feel sorry for the Lancer team?;

I didn't and I kind of don't understand what's sad about it.

In fact I was sad to here Lancers words about desire of Kiritsugu and others to obtaing Grail. Capt. obvious was to late to the resque

[kk2extreme]

I feel sorry just for Lancer, no one else in this ep

So who is next to go?

[Jarmel]

Originally Posted by kk2extreme

I feel sorry just for Lancer, no one else in this ep

So who is next to go?

Either Mariya or Waver. Mariya is on his way out anyway and Waver lost his main rival and doesn't have the conviction the other masters do. My bet is on Waver.

[Linkark07]

Why would Waver leave the war?; Rider is still by his side and we know Iskandar will always protect him. My bet is Kariya, he is in such a pitiful state right now that is a wonder Kirei managed to save him.

[Jarmel]

Originally Posted by Linkark07

Why would Waver leave the war?; Rider is still by his side and we know Iskandar will always protect him. My bet is Kariya, he is in such a pitiful state right now that is a wonder Kirei managed to save him.

Rider is the only reason he's still alive. The rest of the people still in the war have a very clear goal and strong convictions to stay in it. They are willing to go to whatever extremes they need to in order to win. Waver doesn't have the conviction and I doubt he ever will. Kariya might have some time left due to the healing given to him by Kirei. Kariya looks like he's going to burn out on his anyway though. I do expect the next battle is going to involve Rider though.

[ars89]

Yes Kiritsugu had an awesome plan! We did get a good fight for a little bit. Seems like Iri is getting worse. Saber and Kiritsugu's relationship worsens as well. That glare he gave at he end was awesome.

[Mithfalath]

Originally Posted by ars89

Yes Kiritsugu had an awesome plan! We did get a good fight for a little bit. Seems like Iri is getting worse. Saber and Kiritsugu's relationship worsens as well. That glare he gave at he end was awesome.

Yeah, I want a GIF avatar of 21:05 to 21:08!

[Linkark07]

Originally Posted by Jarmel

Rider is the only reason he's still alive. The rest of the people still in the war have a very clear goal and strong convictions to stay in it. They are willing to go to whatever extremes they need to in order to win. Waver doesn't have the conviction and I doubt he ever will. Kariya might have some time left due to the healing given to him by Kirei. Kariya looks like he's going to burn out on his anyway though. I do expect the next battle is going to involve Rider though.

Yep, we know Waver is still alive because of Rider. But Rider is powerful and he has Ionian Heitaroi by his side. That will make the battle a hell difficult to Saber, Gilgamesh and Berserker... I suppose.

[Jarmel]

Originally Posted by Linkark07

Yep, we know Waver is still alive because of Rider. But Rider is powerful and he has Ionian Heitaroi by his side. That will make the battle a hell difficult to Saber, Gilgamesh and Berserker... I suppose.

I would say it's less of an issue for Saber due to the AOE of Excalibur but IH probably can be easily countered by Gates of Babylon.

[ookamigirl]

Damn... things have gotten really serious.
That Kayneth guy is a total lunatic, poor Lancer, he deserves a better master.
Saber vs Lancer, nice fight, but a totally stupid end for Lancer and a well deserved end for his masters.
Emiya's methods were beyond low.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Linkark07

Or if Gilgamesh uses Ea. I wonder why so many servants in the Fate universe are natural counters to others like Gilgamesh to Rider or Berserker to Gilgamesh or Lancer to Saber.

Spoiler for FSN:

Even in FSN Archer and Shirou with Unlimited Blade Works are the real counters to Gilgamesh

The only real counter to Gil is his own arrogance, if Gil was ever serious, he wins.

[Jarmel]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

The only real counter to Gil is his own arrogance, if Gil was ever serious, he wins.

That's his own fault then. It shows a lack of intelligence in regards to understanding their capabilities and the will to accomplish what needs to be done.