Kanon - 2006 - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[AvianWing]

I don't think there's any religion that forbids the marriage of first cousin, it's only established by tradition. The only thing I can come up with is the Chinese culture of not marrying a person with the same last name (I pity all then Chens out there )

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

Yuuichi can redeem himself by doing his best to support Nayuki and Akiko; deep down, he knows that they are more important than some girl he met 7 years ago and dated for a few days.

But I agree; if he ditches them to pursue Ayu, he really is a terrible person.

The previews aren't promising, but I'll give KyoAni the benefit of the doubt until episode 22 actually comes out. I refuse to believe that they'll make such a horrendous mistake.

I dunno, pal. You're effectively saying that Nayuki's plight is worse than Ayu's plight, and therefore if he wasn't such a "horrible person", he'll support Nayuki. I cannot agree with that statement; not because I disagree with the opinion (nor that I support it in any way, for that matter), but because a statement like that is very much subjective. It's an opinionated topic, if I may say so myself; as many different perspectives as there are people, you know what I mean?

I'm personally sitting on the fence for this one, but I'd really appreciate it if you'll stop making absolute statements like "such a horrendous mistake" on such topics which have no absolute fact.

Originally Posted by Bloody Nightingale

5) I dont see what's wrong with that, besides it wasn't even close to similar in terms of purpose. Kyon's = Shock due to wtf, while Nayuki's apparently shows fear.

Yes, I know Kyon's facial contortion is more WTF than Nayuki's fear, but my point isn't the context, my point is the near-identical frames involved. In fact, I was thinking "Why is Nayuki showing the WTF face?" even before I thought of Kyon in the first place.

Originally Posted by Bloody Nightingale

6) Ayu's suppose to be the one who came up with the school idea.

I see.

Originally Posted by Bloody Nightingale

9) Well, considering Nayuki was already in her own room......

Doesn't change the fact that she's still on the floor. And besides, since she was already in her own room, it shouldn't have been too hard for Yuuichi to just pick her up and set her on the bed.

Originally Posted by Bloody Nightingale

10) Recall from ep01, Ayu initially starts with left hand, but tries to use her right hand instead since it is the proper way. So considering that, its nothing wrong about Ayu getting used to extending her right hand to U1.

Yes, like I said, it could be yet another of KyoAni's subtle signs of Ayu and Yuuichi getting more intimately familiar with one another.

Originally Posted by fubar84

On topic: Loved the episode, can't get enough of Nayuki's NYUUUU

And yet you're the only one who gutter-voted this time round?!

You're one of those who takes the "Painful" description literally, don't you?! *lands a 100 ton hammer on fubar84's head*

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

I can't speak for other religions, but first cousin marriages are valid in Christianity. Does anyone know what other major religions have to say about first cousin marriages?

In fact, if I may make a point, cousin marriages were prevalent in the higher stratas of European society at one time; it's basically what royal marriages between the ruling nobles of different countries were all about.

Originally Posted by AvianWing

I don't think there's any religion that forbids the marriage of first cousin, it's only established by tradition. The only thing I can come up with is the Chinese culture of not marrying a person with the same last name (I pity all then Chens out there )

That's not even adhered to that strictly, nowadays. I should know, my own parents are an example of such a union.

[Kyuusai]

Originally Posted by Brim

As for the scene where Nayuki falls asleep on the floor I think it was put in to show Yuuichi's mindset: although he cares for her, he sees her more as a sister than anything else.

Actually, I think the fanservice in that scene was meant to show that he DOES notice her.

I've read that, in the game, that's when... *ahem*

[Brim]

Originally Posted by Kyuusai

Actually, I think the fanservice in that scene was meant to show that he DOES notice her.

I've read that, in the game, that's when... *ahem*

Ah, you may be right on that point Kyuusai - I've never played the game so I'm in the dark on that one. It just seemed to me Yuuichi didn't react in the way one would imagine then if that was the case (blushing or at least a wry comment on noticing her as something more than a relative).

I don't envy Yuuichi at this point - I hope he is able to handle all the pressures on himself, help Nayuki and find Ayu...

[Ascaloth]

Some anime bloggers have made a very good point about how it seems that Japanese high schools (at least in the Kanonverse) teaches stuff like Schrödinger's cat.

An even better point is how they've linked that theory to what we know of Shiori's

Spoiler for only open if you've already seen Ep 21:

and Akiko-san's

condition.

[Skane]

Originally Posted by Brim

~~ I don't envy Yuuichi at this point - I hope he is able to handle all the pressures on himself, help Nayuki and find Ayu...

... and get to see Shiori well, keep his promise to keep in contact with Mai( gee... I wonder why I remember this one...), etc...

Natch.

[Brim]

Originally Posted by Skane

... and get to see Shiori well, keep his promise to keep in contact with Mai( gee... I wonder why I remember this one...), etc...

Natch.

...I'm just thinking of the next episode Skane. Heh - if Yuuichi manages all of that in a day than I think he should get a medal.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Brim

Heh - if Yuuichi manages all of that in a day than I think he should get a medal.

I think he should get a break instead

[Skane]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

Some anime bloggers have made a very good point about how it seems that Japanese high schools (at least in the Kanonverse) teaches stuff like Schrödinger's cat.

An even better point is how they've linked that theory to what we know of Shiori's

Spoiler for only open if you've already seen Ep 21:

and Akiko-san's

condition.

..) Original Lyrics
..) Music Video

She Ain't Dead Yet... She's In Quantum
(Think of Shiori and Kaori)
---- ----

The road is long
With many a winding turn
That leads us to who knows where
Who knows where

But I'm strong
Strong enough to carry on
She ain't dead yet, she's in quantum

So on we go
Her welfare is of my concern
No burden is she, to bear
We'll get there
For I know
She would not abandon me
She ain't dead yet, she's in quantum

If I'm laden at all
I'm laden with sadness
That everyone's heart
Isn't filled with the gladness
Of love for one another

It's a long, long road
From which there is no return
While we're on our way to there
Why not share

And the pain
Doesn't weigh me down at all
She ain't dead yet, she's in quantum
She ain't dead yet, she's in quantum
~~~~ ~~~~

Cheers.

[DanielSong39]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

I dunno, pal. You're effectively saying that Nayuki's plight is worse than Ayu's plight, and therefore if he wasn't such a "horrible person", he'll support Nayuki. I cannot agree with that statement; not because I disagree with the opinion (nor that I support it in any way, for that matter), but because a statement like that is very much subjective. It's an opinionated topic, if I may say so myself; as many different perspectives as there are people, you know what I mean?

I'm personally sitting on the fence for this one, but I'd really appreciate it if you'll stop making absolute statements like "such a horrendous mistake" on such topics which have no absolute fact.

I'm only speaking for myself here, Ascaloth. Basically, I'm saying that I would be completely turned off by Yuuichi if the show actually took that path (and it hasn't, by the way).

It's easy to get caught up in a relationship and neglect those around you. But over the long run, those closest to you tend to have a bigger impact on your long-term future - for better or for worse. Ignoring your parents, siblings, and this case, your caretaker (Akiko) in favor of a girlfriend/boyfriend will almost assuredly hurt you over the long run. I've seen it happen too often in real life, and I don't want to see it happen here. Yuuichi's actions in Kanon 2002 literally sickened me.

I'm not saying Yuuichi should drop Ayu like a hot potato, or he should start a relationship with Nayuki. What I AM saying is that he should realize that Akiko's situation absolutely trumps Ayu's - frankly, for me, it's a no-brainer. Perhaps in the anime world, you should go for the girl every time - but in real life, such a decision is an absolute killer.

As for Ayu - her situation is indeed serious, but I think her actions and words imply that deep down, she really wants her mother - and by extension, a close-knit family. In that sense, I believe Akiko and Nayuki actually has more to offer Ayu than Yuuichi - as they can play the "mother" and "onee-chan" roles in her life. She obviously likes Yuuichi, but her desire to have a boyfriend seems to be somewhat secondary.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

I'm only speaking for myself here, Ascaloth. Basically, I'm saying that I would be completely turned off by Yuuichi if the show actually took that path (and it hasn't, by the way).

It's easy to get caught up in a relationship and neglect those around you. But over the long run, those closest to you tend to have a bigger impact on your long-term future - for better or for worse. Ignoring your parents, siblings, and this case, your caretaker (Akiko) in favor of a girlfriend/boyfriend will almost assuredly hurt you over the long run. I've seen it happen too often in real life, and I don't want to see it happen here. Yuuichi's actions in Kanon 2002 literally sickened me.

I'm not saying Yuuichi should drop Ayu like a hot potato, or he should start a relationship with Nayuki. What I AM saying is that he should realize that Akiko's situation absolutely trumps Ayu's - frankly, for me, it's a no-brainer. Perhaps in the anime world, you should go for the girl every time - but in real life, such a decision is an absolute killer.

As for Ayu - her situation is indeed serious, but I think her actions and words imply that deep down, she really wants her mother - and by extension, a close-knit family. In that sense, I believe Akiko and Nayuki actually has more to offer Ayu than Yuuichi - as they can play the "mother" and "onee-chan" roles in her life. She obviously likes Yuuichi, but her desire to have a boyfriend seems to be somewhat secondary.

Fair enough, as long as you're clear that it is just your own opinion. Don't blame me for being spooked by the fact that too many times already have you come across like thinking you're "the authority" on things.

Spoiler for just my own prediction of events to come, not a spoiler per se, but I'm THAT afraid of FPB's AWESOME POWAH!!!! :D:

Personally, my preference is for a "no-girls" ending, although my definition of such an ending may be a little bit different from yours. Basically, I don't see why Ayu's and Nayuki's good endings have to be mutually exclusive; it's certainly possible, and in my opinion preferable, to work out into an ending where Akiko recovers, and Ayu wakes up from her coma at the same time......but Yuuichi, Nayuki and Ayu enter into an unspoken agreement to leave the romantic stuff on the backburner for the time being.

Therefore, everything is well, and a reawakened Ayu once again becomes an honorary member of the Minase clan just like Yuuichi. To add some bitter to the sweet, they might make it such that Ayu has to undergo physiotherapy (after 7 years in bed, anyone's going to need serious physiotherapy....), and the Minases (yes, I include Yuuichi as a Minase here, despite his real Aizawa family name) give her all the support she needs and all......just some musings of mine, anyway.

[Ascaloth]

Mine is the last post, but why isn't my name on the last post column?

[Blue Reverie]

Actually your prediction does seem to include spoilers I didn't take a long look (the second I opened it I saw the word

Spoiler for possible future spoiler do not look fellow firstimers:

coma

and jammed the PgUp button as fast as I could), so you might wanna check that against spoilers for first time viewers. managed to avoid reading anything but still... Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I dunno. *sigh*

[Lilith]

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

I can't speak for other religions, but first cousin marriages are valid in Christianity. Does anyone know what other major religions have to say about first cousin marriages?

In Islam (and arabian societies) it's completely fine. My brother is married to my first cousin (mothers are sisters).

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

Some anime bloggers have made a very good point about how it seems that Japanese high schools (at least in the Kanonverse) teaches stuff like Schrödinger's cat.

An even better point is how they've linked that theory to what we know of Shiori's

Spoiler for only open if you've already seen Ep 21:

and Akiko-san's

condition.

Actually, I was thinking more of Ayu... "alive but dead". I think it suits her more.

And about leaving Nayuki sleeping on the floor:
I didn't play the game, so I didn't know it was for... *ahems* I was thinking it's fine because this is a, uhh, "family thing". In our house, if someone is sleeping on the floor, we'll just bring a blanket and a pillow for them. Then again, we have carpet and not wood...

[garra113]

Is it just me or is this anime flowing to YuuchixNayuki direction rather then AyuxYuuchi O_O?

[Lilith]

Nope! It's Yuuichi x Kitagawa~ They're starting to have lunch together.

[Mirrinus]

I think the anime flows towards Yuuichix(current girl's arc) every few episodes or so...

[ayako]

Originally Posted by Lilith

Nope! It's Yuuichi x Kitagawa~ They're starting to have lunch together.

*de-lurks* Such genius...

That explains why the doll bears such a resemblance to Kitagawa! It was written in stone those seven years ago that they are the true canon pairing of Kanon...

*is shot*

[fubar84]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

And yet you're the only one who gutter-voted this time round?!

You're one of those who takes the "Painful" description literally, don't you?! *lands a 100 ton hammer on fubar84's head*

WOT?? That was a mistake then, i know i gave the last Shuffle! Memories ep a 1, but i was supposed to give this a 10. Does that mean that i gave S!M a 10 and this a 1? Sheiße!! Have to blame sleepyness for it, actually while i wrote here last night i kinda had the same expression as Nayuki in the last ep.. NYUUUUU

Any way to retract a vote (not that it's superimportant on anything..)

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

Fair enough, as long as you're clear that it is just your own opinion. Don't blame me for being spooked by the fact that too many times already have you come across like thinking you're "the authority" on things.

Spoiler for just my own prediction of events to come, not a spoiler per se, but I'm THAT afraid of FPB's AWESOME POWAH!!!! :D:

Personally, my preference is for a "no-girls" ending, although my definition of such an ending may be a little bit different from yours. Basically, I don't see why Ayu's and Nayuki's good endings have to be mutually exclusive; it's certainly possible, and in my opinion preferable, to work out into an ending where Akiko recovers, and Ayu wakes up from her coma at the same time......but Yuuichi, Nayuki and Ayu enter into an unspoken agreement to leave the romantic stuff on the backburner for the time being.

Therefore, everything is well, and a reawakened Ayu once again becomes an honorary member of the Minase clan just like Yuuichi. To add some bitter to the sweet, they might make it such that Ayu has to undergo physiotherapy (after 7 years in bed, anyone's going to need serious physiotherapy....), and the Minases (yes, I include Yuuichi as a Minase here, despite his real Aizawa family name) give her all the support she needs and all......just some musings of mine, anyway.

yea i agree on it being a "no-girls" ending ~ i can imagine yuuichi disappearing off for another few years and comming back with a surprise...how bout meeting ayu on the same bench and cue the end credits! :3