GATE - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Skaddix]

how long were the issues cause 3 issues in episode sounds pretty standard for a manga to anime adaptation.

honestly yao is the one who should be more sad the rest just met the dark elves and besides mission accomplished since it was basically a suicide mission

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

how long were the issues cause 3 issues in episode sounds pretty standard for a manga to anime adaptation.

honestly yao is the one who should be more sad the rest just met the dark elves and besides mission accomplished since it was basically a suicide mission

She was being kicked out of her village, they didn't want her around because she is jinxed. Yao doesn't have a home to return to.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

how long were the issues cause 3 issues in episode sounds pretty standard for a manga to anime adaptation.

About average for a monthly series, I guess. Specifically the 5 chapters touched by this episode average 47 pages or so. But the three chapters I mentioned earlier are just the fight with the dragon and the aftermath with Giselle. There is some King Duran stuff at the beginning of 44 that was cut from the anime, regarding the JSDF travelling to save Itami, and the last third(?) of 46 is stuff we should see next episode (what they don't cut of it), but the last panel of 43 is literally Itami turning round from finishing up the wiring to see the dragon. Those 2 1/2 chapters are just about 11:30 of the episode (the second half after the break), so it actually got a fair bit of time, considering it's mostly action, but they still managed to cut some stuff from it. This episode starts 8 pages from the end of 42, though only two of those pages are adapted (leaving out some pretty important stuff, actually), and at least a third to half of 43 is either excised completely or turned into exposition.

So the episode covered a little under 4 chapters if you go from where it started to where it stopped (near the end of 42 to a little earlier in 46), but outright lost maybe 3/4 to a full chapter in adaptation, almost all of it character stuff.

Seriously, though, the stuff they cut from the end of 42 is Wham Episode level important stuff. It's a revelation from one of our main characters to the dark elf leader, so the knowledge our main characters have doesn't change with it being removed (since it was "revealed" only to the dark elf leader and the readers), but...wow... They have to be saving this for a later reveal, maybe when the other characters find out in-story. I flipped my shit when I read it in the manga, though I didn't remember that this was where they revealed it. Maybe they revealed it in a different place in the novels. And no, I'm not saying anything more about it. At least not in the episode thread...

[Skaddix]

fascinating well if its as Wham as you say I am sure it will come up

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by nojay

The Panzerfaust fires a solid "counter mass" (counterweight) out the back of the tube to balance the recoil of the rocket being launched forward. Itami actually mentions this to the Dark Elves when he's explaining how they work (about 4:20 in the episode). RPG-7 launchers don't use this counterweight system but they are easily reloadable unlike the Panzerfausts which are effectively single-shot devices.

Oh, you're right, those shouldn't cause a huge backblast that sends people flying...but I guess at point blank it's still quite powerful. Takes some space for air resistance to slow down the debris that comes off the back. Interesting how many militaries use these single-shot things when they're 100 times more expensive than an RPG shell.

[~Yami~]

tense episode.. I like it
I actually think they should divide the battle in 2 episodes but the way they wrapped them up in one single episode is actually quite good
Everyone contributed in their own part very well

It's just too bad that they made so many sacrifices for this Dragon hunt
but at least in the end C4 did their job very well

best moment for me is of course Lelei's psycho face... She is in Rory's mode there while making Gate of Babylon in her own version
Tuka also hide that magic potential until now.. Itami's party is going to be very strong for sure

[DemonneoPT]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

This arc really needed another episode to be adapted properly. The manga version of this battle (chapters 44 and 45 for anyone who's interested, 46 for the Giselle stuff) is some of the best action ever put to print, but the couple chapters before, most lost in adaptation, are what properly frame it. The anime version was probably done as well as it could have been given the time constraints, but outside of the technical quality, the only real highlights were Lelei's and Tuka's critical moments. And that's not even counting the emotional investment lost from what was cut this season prior to the fire dragon operation, but I'm frankly glad that angst didn't drag out as long as it could have.

Indeed, it's sad. I completely lost my hype with this adaptation. The studio is going to rush it till the end so it's a big "meh" for me. Well, if they at least maintain the animation level showed in this episode, it's not going to be a complete waste, even if it's censored like hell..lol. Speaking of which, i find it curious that they showed Rory's blood but restrained to do the same with the dark elves. Is there any criterion to why they do that? Are they only allowed to show this unholy and offensive red liquid for only a short period of time because of the japanese censorship laws or it's just the studio's choice? Because other animes seems to not have a problem with it...

[nojay]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Oh, you're right, those shouldn't cause a huge backblast that sends people flying...but I guess at point blank it's still quite powerful. Takes some space for air resistance to slow down the debris that comes off the back. Interesting how many militaries use these single-shot things when they're 100 times more expensive than an RPG shell.

The Panzerfaust 3s as used by Itami and the Dark Elves are more accurate and a lot more powerful (hence more effective on modern armour) than the venerable RPG-7, with a longer range.

RPG-7: max range 500 metres, explosive charge 750g.

Panzerfaust 3: max. range 900 metres, explosive charge 1.2kg.

They can be reloaded in the field if spare warhead/booster units are available but it takes some time, it's not something that could be done in a brief firefight such as the Fire Dragon engagement.

[Skaddix]

I think the explosive power is the main thing...dont think they really exploited the range advantage or accuracy advantage in the cave fight.

[Yan3242]

Nice episode overall, some solid action after all those previous episode.

recently play xcom 2 so i know how those dark elf feel

Director: "allright we have badass boss coming up, give these 7 grunt the strongest 1 shot weapon you have, doesnt matter if they dead just make sure they fire and hit the boss, then let your 5 main unit kill it to get the exp..."

Having these https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iSepa672f0s played when the sdf going ballistic is somehow fitting

[nojay]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

I think the explosive power is the main thing...dont think they really exploited the range advantage or accuracy advantage in the cave fight.

Well, yes but the weapons they had to hand were the Panzerfaust 3s, not anything else. It's what the Japanese SDF uses as a man-portable anti-armour weapon so they would be available and Itami would be trained up on them, unlike the RPG-7. They had expected to use them outside where the range would be useful if the dragon returned to its nest unexpectedly.

In reality the warhead explosions at such close range in a confined space should have injured or even killed the Elves, Itami and the other girls, never mind the backblast from the launchers (assuming they exploded in the first place -- the PF3's warhead doesn't arm until it's more than 20 metres from the launcher to prevent fratricide and the action in the cave seemed to be at distances shorter than that).

Poetic licence prevailed (and I suspect the LN writer used Panzerfausts in his military career so he wrote them in to the story). Of course being in a confined space when 75kg of C-4 goes off would be equally hurtful or lethal to anyone present but again they were shielded from the overpressure, shrapnel and blast effects by a thin layer of Narrativium.

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by nojay

Well, yes but the weapons they had to hand were the Panzerfaust 3s, not anything else. It's what the Japanese SDF uses as a man-portable anti-armour weapon so they would be available and Itami would be trained up on them, unlike the RPG-7. They had expected to use them outside where the range would be useful if the dragon returned to its nest unexpectedly.

In reality the warhead explosions at such close range in a confined space should have injured or even killed the Elves, Itami and the other girls, never mind the backblast from the launchers (assuming they exploded in the first place -- the PF3's warhead doesn't arm until it's more than 20 metres from the launcher to prevent fratricide and the action in the cave seemed to be at distances shorter than that).

Poetic licence prevailed (and I suspect the LN writer used Panzerfausts in his military career so he wrote them in to the story). Of course being in a confined space when 75kg of C-4 goes off would be equally hurtful or lethal to anyone present but again they were shielded from the overpressure, shrapnel and blast effects by a thin layer of Narrativium.

Good points, but they were in a caldera and not a cave, and it was HUGE. That massive flame dragon didn't even begin to fill it. I think the distances were enough for the PF3's to arm: they looked to be farther than the dragon's length from it, and that massive beast was at least 30 meters long if not longer.

The blast they might have needed to plot armor for was the 160+ pounds of C4: I think they were far enough away when it detonated to survive (they were certainly far enough away to be out of the lightning storm), although they'd be deaf the rest of the day

[Skaddix]

Originally Posted by nojay

Well, yes but the weapons they had to hand were the Panzerfaust 3s, not anything else. It's what the Japanese SDF uses as a man-portable anti-armour weapon so they would be available and Itami would be trained up on them, unlike the RPG-7. They had expected to use them outside where the range would be useful if the dragon returned to its nest unexpectedly.

In reality the warhead explosions at such close range in a confined space should have injured or even killed the Elves, Itami and the other girls, never mind the backblast from the launchers (assuming they exploded in the first place -- the PF3's warhead doesn't arm until it's more than 20 metres from the launcher to prevent fratricide and the action in the cave seemed to be at distances shorter than that).

Poetic licence prevailed (and I suspect the LN writer used Panzerfausts in his military career so he wrote them in to the story). Of course being in a confined space when 75kg of C-4 goes off would be equally hurtful or lethal to anyone present but again they were shielded from the overpressure, shrapnel and blast effects by a thin layer of Narrativium.

Well we know why Itami didnt die so that is covered.

Narrativium...never heard that one before I might have to use that.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Well we know why Itami didnt die so that is covered.

Narrativium...never heard that one before I might have to use that.

Yep. It's the most prevalent substance used in Plot Armor.

[nojay]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Yep. It's the most prevalent substance used in Plot Armor.

It's often alloyed with Unobtainium for better effect. See, for example the hardness of the Fire Dragon's scales in this story.

[Top Sergeant]

Just re-watched the episode. That was a really good animation of TOW missiles from those Cobras firing on the young dragons. I could see the light reflecting from the guidance wires.