2015-01-01, 19:59 | Link #10401 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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If merchandise for other characters sold, it would be made.
My point is that people like to spin this as being (Hideously unpopular noncharacter) Nagi vs (Important Super-popular character) Hina when the reality is (Popular Main Character) Nagi vs (Even More Popular Side Character) Hina. The fact that Hina is crushingly popular doesn't really matter at all when Nagi is basically#2. It's a fact of life in Harem/Romcoms that the main heroine is usually not the #1 vote magnet. Nagi consistently ranking in at 2nd or 3rd actually makes her more successful then most main characters. |
2015-01-01, 20:05 | Link #10402 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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Nagi's actually #3 on popularity polls, unless she dropped to #4 because of blue haired singer whose name I've forgotten. Athena is #2. Though I do agree it's not like she's not popular, but Hina's so massively more popular it's ridiculous. If I recall, she had around 4x as many votes as Nagi in almost every popularity contest.
Still doesn't mean Hata can't sabotage Hina to make Nagi look better. It could easily be that he doesn't know what to do with her either, but that wouldn't explain changing how she acts for no apparent reason. |
2015-01-01, 22:23 | Link #10403 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I don't really buy that Hina has changed much, though. She's always been a contrast between being seemingly perfect and having a few really ridiculous flaws that are played up for laughs.
The only difference now is that she's used almost exclusively as a comic character so that's the side of her that comes out more. What else is Hata supposed to do? She has almost zero plot relevance, there hasn't been any action scenes for her to edge in on, and he can't focus too much on the romance angle when it's so very obviously not going anywhere. She's also too popular to leave out entirely, so comic relief it is. I personally find her a lot more consistently entertaining over the last few years then she used to be for a long time, so different strokes and all that. Alice was a cardboard cutout for the longest time, more out of neglect then anything else but since she's started getting her memories back she's been hilarious. |
2015-01-02, 04:41 | Link #10404 | ||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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In the recent months (years, actually), these 'action' arcs has become increasingly rare. Hata is concentrating more and more on gag chapters. In so far, I think you're right. Quote:
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You know which show this increasingly reminds me of? School Rumble. Its author, Kobayashi Jin, was also under pressure to commit Harima to either the much more popular Eri or Yakumo, but he stubbornly insisted on keeping the Tenma fixation. I remember that when he first ended School Rumble with essentially a slap in the fan's faces with a reset-all pseudo-Tenma ending, he almost killed his career as an artist. The fanbase was livid (I decided never to purchase anything related to him anymore) and his followup works literally _tanked_. It took 2 "I got it, forgive me" post-ending School Rumble arcs concluding the story decisively before he could make his peace again. I wonder if Hata is eventually going to end up in the same spot. Stubbornly writing against the wishes of the vast majority of the fanbase is risky. My personal theory is that he added Fumi/Sharna to HnG to test the waters if they could be used as his "followup" manga should he ever decide to conclusively end HnG. Unfortunately, they didn't remotely seem to be popular enough for that (since they're also only gag-of-the-week characters, the same type of story that many fans like me are gradually getting fed up with in the first place). At the moment, I only want the show to get SOMEWHERE. Writing down fan favorites like Hina or A-tan won't help making Nagi more popular, Mr. Hata. And I was literally howling in pain when he introduced yet another poor-but-nice girl falling for Hayate. Seriously? AGAIN? I remember that a few months ago, Hata claimed that he was setting up for the conclusion of the Royal Palace backstory (and thus, the story in general, I hope). But more and more, I suspect that he is caught in the primary writer's trap: He knows that he _should_ conclude the story and start anew, but doesn't dare to. So he'll let it float in limbo until it's all dried up. We'll see. I hope I'm wrong. |
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2015-01-02, 05:18 | Link #10405 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Eh, the School Rumble ending was objectively awful on multiple levels that didn't even touch on shipping.
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Likewise this was always primarily a gag manga, and while the Greek Arc was cool and all I don't understand people being shocked that a gag manga about Hayate and Nagi is still primarily a gag manga about Hayate and Nagi. I don't begrude anyone not liking the series anymore or even being spiteful about it, but come on. It's not an EPIC BETRAYAL for the manga to putter along doing the same stuff it always did. Hina fans hoping they could derail the entire direction of the series by pumping out enough popularity votes were always fooling themselves, that's all. As for the series ending that's pretty obviously still happening as it has been for a while now. Do you think it's a coincidence that all these Kings Jewels are getting exploded so Hata doesn't have to worry about them anymore? The entire manga after the mangaka arc ended has been in clean up mode, running through dozens of loose ends hardly anyone but Hata still remembers and manically checking them off a list. |
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2015-01-02, 05:47 | Link #10406 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Now, I mean this seriously. I read/watch a lot of Rom Coms and my rule of thumb is that if I look at the main pairing and I'm not comfortable with them ending up together, then there's a good chance I'm not going to bother.
The maybe 2% chance the author will change their mind over the course of the series and go with minor character C I happen to like better is far too remote to be worth getting invested in. Every time a new anime season kicks off I see a bunch of people getting all worked up about rooting for (Obviously doomed love interest) and while I totally get liking other characters better (Totally! I've been there a lot!) I am yet to be disappointed in this approach, unlike apparently thousands of other people. But that's just me. |
2015-01-02, 08:02 | Link #10407 | ||||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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The way I see it, Hata is grasping at straws trying to drag things out, as usual. Nothing gets _resolved_, ever. Things gets _reset_. Quote:
Also, as Hina fanboi, I wouldn't even mind "losing" properly. For me, her exit with Isumi at the end of EotW was a wonderfully touching, bittersweet closure, one of the strongest endings I've seen. I'd certainly prefer that to plopping her on the clown shelf, and I think that many A-tan shippers feel the same. |
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2015-01-02, 08:20 | Link #10408 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I'm just going to say that if Hata did have a diabolical plan to tank Hina's popularity, he'd probably come up with something better then to have her still show up a lot and making her funnier and still likeable. Just saying.
Likewise Alice existing always felt like a concession to Athena fans, to me. She didn't have anything remotely important to do until after the Mangaka arc but she was around and giving Athena fans a bit of hope instead of just having her absent for like four years. Quote:
Also if you think Konoha is meant to be taken seriously instead of just stirring the pot I don't know what to tell you. As for closure, that's something that will have to wait until even closer to the end of the series, unfortunately. Hina is too popular a character to take the Ruka early exit. |
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2015-01-02, 08:56 | Link #10409 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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I think most is said already, but this merits one more response.
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Would non-Nagi endings compatible with HnG be possible? Yes, absolutely - from the storytelling aspect there would be no hindrances. He wouldn't even necessarily have to stop being her butler. However, it would demand _lasting developments_, something which Hata can't seem to stomach. Then again, it would require lasting developments to make a romantic linkup between Hayate and Nagi palatable, too. Quote:
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2015-01-02, 09:15 | Link #10410 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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It also seems to be building on Hayate's creeping realization girls actually like him and encouraging Hamster and Hina to make one last push. Konohah herself is totally irrelevant except as a catalyst and comic character. To pull a slightly older example, remember Robot 8 randomly showing up during the beach episode? That whole little escapade was actually intended to be a final send off for him and the professor, his fate previously being somewhat...murky. Hata outright said so on his blog so I'm not making this up. Quote:
It's no different then any shonen fight series ever starting off with "Oh you'll never beat that guy, he's too strong." As I said, it's not even rare. Obviously the MC only expresses romantic interest in other girls that he will never end up with. It's completely safe to do so, locked down and secured by Hayate's butler status to make sure nothing ever comes of it. Whereas the setup with Nagi and Hayate is a delicate one and Hata has to be much more cautious in keeping a careful balance so that the series can shoulder on consequence free. |
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2015-01-02, 16:34 | Link #10411 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
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2015-01-02, 18:06 | Link #10413 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The dog gossips too much.
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Authors resisting fan pressure probably dates as far back as publishing itself does. Arthur Conan Doyle got sick of Sherlock Holmes and tried to kill him, but public pressure forced him to bring him back. And on the subject of shipping, who can forget the author of "Little Women" writing in her journal, "I won't marry Jo to Laurie to please anyone"? So will Hata go the Doyle route and pair Hayate with someone else or will he fight valiantly till the end? *grabs a bag of popcorn and waits*
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2015-01-02, 20:51 | Link #10416 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Though the setting of "will they won't they" is a legit one, it was never, not even once, at work in HnG. Hayate and Nagi's relationship has always been, from the beginning up to now, portrayed as familial, with Hayate being a father/elder-brother figure to Nagi. Though Nagi has her one-sided feelings toward Hayate, the relationship always end up sticking to the family-like bonds they have. Had there been hints of romance every now and then, or even some minor developments, the set-up you propose would work, but as far as HnG goes, there's nothing.
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2015-01-03, 00:25 | Link #10417 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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Write a spinoff manga starring Hina so her fans can get their fix of her without feeling like she's being treated poorly? You know, like Misaka Mikoto fans get since Kamachi wants to keep Index as the main heroine despite Mikoto being massively more popular?
Like Mikoto, she even already has a supporting cast she can use. One of which wants to be a lesbian with her. |
2015-01-04, 19:40 | Link #10418 | |||||||||||||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Personally, I think Hata-sensei is very mistaken, but that's just me. Quote:
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It isn't that I mind that result, but there's no romance between the two. On occasion, Nagi is shown to have interest in Hayate. Hayate cares for Nagi, but the romance element isn't there. I think Hata-sensei realized he put himself in a bind when he did the Greece arc because it really made Hayate x Athena a strong pairing. Looking back, I think that's why he did that image showing Athena handing Nagi's hat back to her, as if to say, "Even though I am best girl, this manga was created with the intent of a Nagi x Hayate ending, thus by giving you this hat, I am out of it." Quote:
Regardless, School Rumble was all about unrequited love. Harima loved Tenma, but she only saw him as a friend and as a potential boyfriend for her sister, Yakumo. Yakumo fell for Harima, but for him, she was just Tenma's little sister and someone who helped him with his manga. Eri fell for him, but that's because he wouldn't fawn over her. For Harima, Eri was just a spoiled "ojou" who was friends with Tenma and occasionally helped him. Quote:
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Still, you have a point. I think of Genshiken, where Koi-sensei wanted Madarame and Saki to be the romantic couple. As he put it, he couldn't figure out a way to make that happen during Genshiken's run. So he created Spotted Flower and filled it with unnamed characters that look suspiciously like Genshiken characters, only here, the not-Madarame and the not-Saki have gotten married. With Genshiken Nidaime proving pretty popular, I think that Koi-sensei may still try to work a Madarame x Saki hookup before all is said and done. Quote:
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Seeing how Hata-sensei has done such a massive job of keeping track of plot threads, it is easy for fans like me to want the story (or stories) to push forward while retaining a gag element, or even the occasional gag breaks. Quote:
For harem series where there's a chosen girl at the start, but for whatever reason, she and the lead male aren't a couple even though they like each other, the harem girls that join later can prove more interesting than the initial girl. Thus you get shippers wanting other girls to be the chosen one. At that point, the author can either (1) have the hero choose the girl the author picked at the beginning; (2) have the hero make a choice, but not reveal it to the audience; (3) have the hero choose a popular girl that wasn't the original girl; or (4) have the hero choose 'em all. No matter which choice is made, people are going to get angry, and that's the trap of the harem genre. As a canon Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-ohki fan, I was a Ryoko x Tenchi shipper. However, I was eventually able to accept the notion that Kajishima-sensei had a harem ending in mind, and that ending worked in terms of the world that he'd created (the politics of Jurai). Others were (and still are) quite angry with this choice. In Saber Marionette J, the hero makes his choice, but the audience doesn't know which girl he chose. As such, a lot of people were angry with that, deeming it as big of a cop-out as a harem ending. Basically, Hata-sensei is screwed no matter where he goes. I think the route that would cause the least anger would be an Athena route (and I don't say that just because I ship that way), followed by a Hina route, but even still, there'd be angry people no matter which option he chooses. Quote:
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2015-01-04, 21:19 | Link #10419 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Btw, the lesbian one is Miki, the member of the trio with straight grey hair. |
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2015-01-05, 04:04 | Link #10420 | |
Nomad of the Time Streams
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 51
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Both these traits are wildly popular in Japan and wildly unpopular here (Only Toradora and FMP have really escaped the 'lead angry girl is hated by a majority of Western fandom' cliche). Add to that the fact that by the time North America noticed Hayate as a franchise, Hina was on the rise, and Nagi never had any opportunity to get a fanbase here. |
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comedy, shounen |
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