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Old 2021-01-23, 09:28   Link #41
SeijiSensei
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Williams still has to face trial. She wasn't acquitted, just released into the custody of her mother until trial. She has to wear an ankle bracelet, too.
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Old 2021-01-23, 10:14   Link #42
Guardian Enzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Heheh... If Trump is a losing hand, what would be the alternative? The Romney GOP from 2014? I guess everyone knows that won't work.

I guess there are some that don't mind being losers, as long as their corporate patrons are happy. Trump at least offered an avenue of reform to the party. I don't see any viable alternative if the intention is to keep fighting.
Reform? Are you fucking kidding me?

Romney (2014??) lost to a popular incumbent, which hardly makes him a historical oddity. He's also a relatively weak, patrician candidate. There are, however, potential Republican candidates who aren't sociopathic fascists like Trump (sociopathic anyway) who might make respectable national candidates. The point is that Trump is poison - the coup has tainted his brand beyond repair, and he was already one of the most unpopular incumbent Presidents in a century. If they continue to allow him to be the face of the party they're screwed. Choosing another path at least gives them a chance.
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Old 2021-01-23, 10:27   Link #43
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Choosing another path at least gives them a chance.
Let's compare trump with alcohol. The GOP partied like there was no tomorrow, had 4 years where they did as they pleased with the first two had complete control of the legislative. Now they are in the hangover phase, where they are weak as a pup. They can double down and get more alcohol, which will only damage them more and lead the party to an early grave or they can suffer the consequences like an adult and go into rehabilitation, which is a long and hard process.

But as I have said before, I do not think the GOP will have the chance to choose, look closely at all those repubs that will vote against impeaching trump in the second trial, those wimps will jump ship into the trump's patriot party the very day trump announces its formation. Those that stay will have no other option than rehabilitation. The good news is that with three parties there will be no other option than good old dialogue, because the repubs will no longer be able to go the "is my way or the highway" route.
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Old 2021-01-23, 11:29   Link #44
Jaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Reform? Are you fucking kidding me?

Romney (2014??) lost to a popular incumbent, which hardly makes him a historical oddity. He's also a relatively weak, patrician candidate.
Ah, all right...perhaps they should go further back to Bush or Reagan then. The point is, I think those coalitions don't exist anymore.

Quote:
There are, however, potential Republican candidates who aren't sociopathic fascists like Trump (sociopathic anyway) who might make respectable national candidates.
You mean like the two senate candidates from Georgia? Forgot the names of those losers already.

Quote:
The point is that Trump is poison - the coup has tainted his brand beyond repair, and he was already one of the most unpopular incumbent Presidents in a century. If they continue to allow him to be the face of the party they're screwed. Choosing another path at least gives them a chance.
He's still the most popular Republican. Well, there is time for this other path to materialize, I just don't see it yet.
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Old 2021-01-23, 14:35   Link #45
Sheba
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Trump is not alcohol. He is like lead in the GOP water. And they willfully got drunk on it, thinking it wont hurt them.
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Old 2021-01-23, 17:06   Link #46
MCAL
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https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/...mpression=true

Yeah, the Republicans won't be doing anything.
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Old 2021-01-23, 17:26   Link #47
Ithekro
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I did a little rapid number crunching on the election, since people are still arguing that it was stolen and such. Their are likely many theories on the matter and disputes on number and such. But for all that bluster only around 2/3rds of the voting population voted this election. The largest percentage voter turnout since 1908. But before that it was common to have 70 to 80% of the voting population vote on the subject of the President of the United States.

In recent years voter turnout has been around 50% of the voting population. Partly due to apathy. "What does my vote matter? The state always votes this way anyway" But here, this last year, there is a decisive turn of events. Where both sides start to say that if the other side wins, the country is lost. So people come and vote. And when given a way to get around some of the more egregious voter suppression methods (long lines, single voting booths, one drop out in a county), and some not having to choose between voting and a day's pay, more people voted. And it is known that registered Democrats outnumber registered Republicans. About 5% more.

Just look at 2016. Around 55% voter turnout. about 63 million for Trump and about 66 million for Clinton. Much of that 3 million over was California's overwhelming voting for Clinton. Now look at this year. Around 66% voter turnout. around 74 million for Trump, and around 81 million for Biden. By the percentages of the voter turnout for both elections, there should be about 235 million voters in the country. Of which a third did not bother to vote in 2020 for President. The total population of the United States is estimated by the Census to be over 330 million. Take out the children and illegals, and 235 million is about correct for adult age American citizens.

The numbers needed for the election to be stolen, don't add up compared to the number of voters available. At least in terms of the popular vote.
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Old 2021-01-23, 19:11   Link #48
Guardian Enzo
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NO ONE with any credibility is arguing that it was stolen. No one. No time should even be wasted on refuting that nonsense, as that only gives it credibility.
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Old 2021-01-24, 03:48   Link #49
Sheba
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Imagine being so toxic your neighborhood empyting up .
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Old 2021-01-25, 11:29   Link #50
mangamuscle
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Boot licking at its finest, shame on you SCOTUS:

Supreme Court dismisses emolument cases against Trump

https://us.cnn.com/2021/01/25/politi...ald-trump-case
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Old 2021-01-25, 17:59   Link #51
MCAL
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https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/st...30087758651392

Everything's going great! /sarcasm
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Old 2021-01-25, 23:06   Link #52
coded321
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^Manchin is a republican in everything but name. He's not even running for any future reelection, so he has zero political reason to side with the Republicans. If Murkowski is going to become a Democrat or independent, she better do it soon because with Joe Manchin, the senate might as well still have a republican majority.
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Old 2021-01-26, 00:37   Link #53
Guardian Enzo
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Manchin has not, AFAIK, indicated that he has no plans to seek re-election in '24.
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Old 2021-01-26, 09:31   Link #54
SeijiSensei
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Manchin strikes me as a New-Deal Democrat and favors government action to solve problems. I don't see him as a Republican, just a conservative Democrat. There's a big difference on matters like taxing and spending.
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Old 2021-01-26, 13:32   Link #55
Eisdrache
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
Boot licking at its finest, shame on you SCOTUS:

Supreme Court dismisses emolument cases against Trump

https://us.cnn.com/2021/01/25/politi...ald-trump-case
It's really not that crazy. SCOTUS didn't really have much ability to do anything in these cases since most of them didn't seek damages but instead sought prospective relief, which basically means preventing Trump from using his position to repeat this act or similar this in the future. And since Trump is not president anymore there is no real danger of this being the case.

However there is still the possibility that he could be sued for damages retroactively although this is its own can of worms.
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Old 2021-01-26, 14:49   Link #56
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
It's really not that crazy. SCOTUS didn't really have much ability to do anything in these cases since most of them didn't seek damages but instead sought prospective relief, which basically means preventing Trump from using his position to repeat this act or similar this in the future. And since Trump is not president anymore there is no real danger of this being the case.
Since atm the scholars conclusion is that a sitting president can't be prosecuted, this is a catch-22 situation where they will not make a POTUS stand trial when in or out of office. IMO (I am not a lawyer) the correct thing would have been to let the case go forward to set a precedent. What I see happening here is that in the future the SCOTUS might decide to go forward if said president is not of their liking (as in, justice with eyes wide open, not blind at all).
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Old 2021-01-26, 15:03   Link #57
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
Since atm the scholars conclusion is that a sitting president can't be prosecuted, this is a catch-22 situation where they will not make a POTUS stand trial when in or out of office. IMO (I am not a lawyer) the correct thing would have been to let the case go forward to set a precedent. What I see happening here is that in the future the SCOTUS might decide to go forward if said president is not of their liking (as in, justice with eyes wide open, not blind at all).
Here's a lawyer's opinion, then:
YouTube
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And it makes sense: you sue to achieve some result. Since the plaintiffs asked for the courts to stop Trump abusing his position as POTUS, and he already lost the ability to do that, there isn't any point in continuing things.

Of course, there ought to be some way to punish him for all the shit he pulled, including the profiteering. I'm not sure there's one, though. But then, I'm not a lawyer either.

In better news:
YouTube
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
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Old 2021-01-26, 22:35   Link #58
coded321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Manchin strikes me as a New-Deal Democrat and favors government action to solve problems. I don't see him as a Republican, just a conservative Democrat. There's a big difference on matters like taxing and spending.
Conservative democrats are literally just moderate Republicans. That's how far to the right the u.s political spectrum has become. Anywhere else in the world, the Democrat party would be the conservative party.
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Old 2021-01-26, 22:58   Link #59
Guardian Enzo
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It's the Democratic Parry not the Democrat Party, and your last statement is BS. Tell that to the folks in Hungary or the UK.
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Old 2021-01-27, 02:57   Link #60
coded321
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^ok sorry my bad, I'll correct that. Anywhere else in the world, other than Hungary and the UK, the Democratic Parry would be the conservative party.

But seriously, I freaking wish Democrats were the radical leftist/socialists/liberals that Republicans portray them as. It's nice, watching right wing commentators fearmonger about the far left policies that will be enacted by the radical communist/socialist, Joe Biden. I see this and I'm like "Damn, dont threaten me with a good time".
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