Code Geass - Spoilers & Speculation (ver 2 old)

[Skellington2612]

Who knows, with Suzaku and his supernatural skills, and knowing about Rollo´s geass... then Rollo wasn´t searching for Shirley to kill her so if she had stayed with Suzaku she´d be alive and kicking, she died in a moment of "supergirl, saving Lulu" I always saw Shirley as the stupid type whatever... she found the wrong person and said the wrong thing...
But it´s not Lelouch fault not Suzaku... they just assumed... but never thought of dear Rollo...

[Micante]

Originally Posted by Skellington2612

If he stayed with Shirley, Jeremiah who was almost in the building would have attacked both of them... the only thing in this case of which Lelouch is at fault it´s trusting Rollo and not seeing his "bro-con" like how he sent Rollo to rescue Nunally... which is really strange I thought Lulu was intelligent enough to know people very well but I guess not or his "using Rollo as a rag" turned bad for him... but that his only fault... he clearly said it Suzaku was the more capable of taking care of her...

Episode Eightish
Nunnally: I made the choice to become governor!
Lelouch: OMG! Nunnally has free will?

Lelouch is an idiot when it comes to knowing others.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Micante

Episode Six
Nunnally: I made the choice to become governor!
Lelouch: OMG! Nunnally has free will?

Lelouch is an idiot when it comes to knowing others.

He's stuck in logic, his assessment was that she was just being used (which she was) and thus logically you would not want to be used, as such logically she would not want that. Unfortunately, logic flies out the window in the face of peoples emotions and feelings. I think rarely anyone is very good at knowing people giving how unpredictable people can generally be <_<

And for pete's sake, he's ignorant of just how obsessed Rolo really is with him, blinded by his own hatred in many respects. He doesn't know Rolo killed Shirley when she mentioned Nunnally, an in most cases Rolo manages to hide his detesting of her to everyone but us really, because, well, we're the audience. He just thinks of Rolo as a blind, obedient servant because he never thought of him much beyond that.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

WHY is EVERYONE trying to cast blame for Shirley on Lelouch and Suzaku of all people when it was ROLO that killed her willingly, with thought-out reasoning and a cover-up plot?!

I blame only Shirely.

Originally Posted by Micante

Lelouch is an idiot when it comes to knowing others.

Or rather, bad when it comes to unpredictable moves.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by Micante

Episode Eightish
Nunnally: I made the choice to become governor!
Lelouch: OMG! Nunnally has free will?

Lelouch is an idiot when it comes to knowing others.

Maybe he should have included Nunally into the OotBK to knock some common sense into him This is Nunally. She keeps me from doing stupid decisions.

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by Micante

Episode Eightish
Nunnally: I made the choice to become governor!
Lelouch: OMG! Nunnally has free will?

Lelouch is an idiot when it comes to knowing others.

Indeed. It seems that Lelouch, while he tries very hard to take care of his friends, rarely actually takes the time to try to understand them. He assumes they all fit into his world view, and he does what's best for them in that context whether they want it or not.

[FoxxFireArt]

Has anyone else wondered about Anya? She had a reaction when she collided with Lelouch, but why is it he had no reaction? C.C. felt something from her. Though I thought C.C. couldn't tell what the person sees without direct contact. Like when she used her ability on Suzaku back in season one, through the Lancelot.

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt

Has anyone else wondered about Anya? She had a reaction when she collided with Lelouch, but why is it he had no reaction? C.C. felt something from her. Though I thought C.C. couldn't tell what the person sees without direct contact. Like when she used her ability on Suzaku back in season one, through the Lancelot.

C.C. was in contact with her Knightmare, which was in contact with Anya's Knightmare, which was in contact with Anya. And seeing as they were probably on the same altitude level, that advantage probably cancelled out the armour thickness (Suaku was quite a bit higher up than C.C. when she mindraep'd him). Anya getting that seizure against Lelouch doesn't seem to make much sense yet, on the other hand, unless Charles had something to do with it.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

Indeed. It seems that Lelouch, while he tries very hard to take care of his friends, rarely actually takes the time to try to actually understand them. He assumes they all fit into his world view, and he does what's best for them in that context whether they want it or not.

Well, to be honest I rarely understand them myself as well, Suzaku is the biggest brick wall I've ever met since, well, ever. Shirley was very typical and easy to get through until a certain point where everything just got jumbled up together due more to circumstances then anything else. Rivalz and Milley never had that problem... still Lelouch relies too much on logic and reasoning when in this case it doesn't necessarily answer to that, instead relying on emotions and feelings. More then anything, I think it isn't about controlling his friends now as it is him trying to push them out of his world in many respects in order to pursue his agenda uncompromisingly, while at the same time I think he thinks of himself as a plague that would just cause them more harm then good. Unfortunately, what he has to learn is you can't just ignore one aspect of your life in favor of another, the world just doesn't answer to your whims in that regard, you have to find a way to incorporate them in together.

[Skellington2612]

I guess it was because of CC´s code, since Lelouch just has a Geass he can´t feel anything or he would have feel the same with the mind wiped student council members..

[Sou_Sou]

Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt

Has anyone else wondered about Anya? She had a reaction when she collided with Lelouch, but why is it he had no reaction? C.C. felt something from her. Though I thought C.C. couldn't tell what the person sees without direct contact. Like when she used her ability on Suzaku back in season one, through the Lancelot.

Might have been a reaction to Charles Coming.

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Well, to be honest I rarely understand them myself as well, Suzaku is the biggest brick wall I've ever met since, well, ever. Shirley was very typical and easy to get through until a certain point where everything just got jumbled up together due more to circumstances then anything else. Rivalz and Milley never had that problem... still Lelouch relies too much on logic and reasoning when in this case it doesn't necessarily answer to that, instead relying on emotions and feelings. More then anything, I think it isn't about controlling his friends now as it is him trying to push them out of his world in many respects in order to pursue his agenda uncompromisingly, while at the same time I think he thinks of himself as a plague that would just cause them more harm then good. Unfortunately, what he has to learn is you can't just ignore one aspect of your life in favor of another, the world just doesn't answer to your whims in that regard, you have to find a way to incorporate them in together.

This seems to agree with but elaborate on my point. But I don't think Lelouch's problem is being overly logical when it comes to his friends, but rather letting his protective and caring emotions override what's clearly right in front of him. It's not that he erased Shirley's memory or wanted to keep her out of his business because it was a calculated move of logic; it's that he really cared for her and wanted to keep her safe from the "plague" that is the danger of being near him, as you put it.

[Micante]

Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt

Has anyone else wondered about Anya? She had a reaction when she collided with Lelouch, but why is it he had no reaction? C.C. felt something from her. Though I thought C.C. couldn't tell what the person sees without direct contact. Like when she used her ability on Suzaku back in season one, through the Lancelot.

Actually, I think that was just a random seizure attack without Lelouch being involved. She was pushing Lelouch for a good while before it happened. As for the one with C.C., it was a triggered one from coming into contact as can be shown from C.C.'s end as well.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

This seems to agree with but elaborate on my point. But I don't think Lelouch's problem is being overly logical when it comes to his friends, but rather letting his protective and caring emotions override what's clearly right in front of him. It's not that he erased Shirley's memory or wanted to keep her out of his business because it was a calculated move of logic; it's that he really cared for her and wanted to keep her safe from the "plague" that is the danger of being near him, as you put it.

Well, to be honest, despite that it didn't work out in the end, can we say he was wrong in many respects? Erasing her memory as she was breaking down in front of him, or trying to keep her away from his life which ultimately did consume her in the end. In the end, what would we have done in his place that could have really changed given the circumstances without knowing what we know now?

[Discerptor]

He was wrong about Nunnally (as pointed out a few posts ago), he was wrong about Suzaku (I'm sorry, but any attempt to say Suzaku should be -thanking- Lelouch for what he did is less than invalid after episode 18 of R2... heck, even after Suzaku's bit in episode 17) and he was wrong about Shirley in the latter case not necessarily because of his wish but because it blinded him to how obviously invested she was in his life and the inevitability that such a tragedy would occur if he didn't let her in on his own terms rather than let her stumble in with a gun. Even looking at just the Mao incident, he took an easy way out against her will, only getting her involved again because of how much she still cared for him regardless. His attempts to block out Shirley only got her in a deeper mess because he never saw the obvious truth that it was pointless and actually more dangerous for her.

[Skellington2612]

What could he have done? drag her with him?

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Skellington2612

What could he have done? drag her with him?

Well he could've just geassed her mom to move them back to the motherland.

I mean for crying out loud. The poor widow lost her husband AND then her daughter. That's too much for one person.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

He was wrong about Nunnally (as pointed out a few posts ago), he was wrong about Suzaku (I'm sorry, but any attempt to say Suzaku should be -thanking- Lelouch for what he did is less than invalid after episode 18 of R2) and he was wrong about Shirley in the latter case not necessarily because of his wish but because it blinded him to how obviously invested she was in his life and the inevitability that such a tragedy would occur if he didn't let her in on his own terms rather than let her stumble in with a gun.

Not like Nunnally isn't actually in danger as he surmised, if anything she is in danger because he let her have her own will. I'm not about to say Suzaku would thank Lelouch, but in his position could you really let your best friend kill himself like that at the time? It wasn't that he was wrong about Suzaku, it was that he was right in the end. As for Shirley, look what investing her life cost him? How can you even want to bring someone you care about like that into your world willingly, its an arena that destroys people, destroys him even. As C.C said, if you really care about someone then you should keep them at arms-length, as it were. Do we blame Lelouch for everything on this matter? Was Nunnally, Suzaku, or Shirley not also responsible for there own actions? Are you saying they were right in the decisions they made, or haven't caused him pain as well, or created their own share of victims because of it? What about circumstances, chance, the increasing variables of life?

This is the thing I think about when watching Code Geass, you can't really take a side and blame one person for any one thing, you can't say there actions are unjustified or unsubstantiated, nor can you say they are without fault or consequence. If that is the case, then what we are witnessing isn't an act of simple instigator and receiver, fault and blame, but a group of victims more then anything else. In this case, I think we are meant to pity rather then hate, to witness rather then judge, as the events unfold before us.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

He was wrong about Suzaku (I'm sorry, but any attempt to say Suzaku should be -thanking- Lelouch for what he did is less than invalid after episode 18 of R2... heck, even after Suzaku's bit in episode 17).

He didn't do what he did to Suzaku because he wanted to. Suzaku's a stubborn bastard and was going to get them killed. Lelouch even regretted it.

[Skellington2612]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Not like Nunnally isn't actually in danger as he surmised, if anything she is in danger because he let her have her own will. I'm not about to say Suzaku would thank Lelouch, but in his position could you really let your best friend kill himself like that at the time? It wasn't that he was wrong about Suzaku, it was that he was right in the end. As for Shirley, look what investing her life cost him? How can you even want to bring someone you care about like that into your world willingly, its an arena that destroys people, destroys him even. As C.C said, if you really care about someone then you should keep them at arms-length, as it were. Do we blame Lelouch for everything on this matter? Was Nunnally, Suzaku, or Shirley not also responsible for there own actions? Are you saying they were right in the decisions they made, or haven't caused him pain as well, or created their own share of victims because of it? What about circumstances, chance, the increasing variables of life?

This is the thing I think about when watching Code Geass, you can't really take a side and blame one person for any one thing, you can't say there actions are unjustified or unsubstantiated, nor can you say they are without fault or consequence. If that is the case, then what we are witnessing isn't an act of simple instigator and receiver, fault and blame, but a group of victims more then anything else. In this case, I think we are meant to pity rather then hate, to witness rather then judge, as the events unfold before us.

I´m speechless, I completely agree with you...