AnimeSuki Forums

~Diru~ · 2009-08-30, 15:26

Hmm but didn't the blood trails lead to 2 culprits?
That would lead to the servants, as Rosa or the Cousins killing them in Teamwork seems unlikely, but as the trails are already stated as "fake proof" it makes the servants do it unlikely on the same level...
So did Nanjo do it?
Damn this really is hard

LuckySovietStar · 2009-08-30, 15:30

Well, "difficulty is first-rate". This is how game describes Episode 2.
Also, I found it strange. Why place where Shannon found "Chapel" note was so clean? It was like they didn't want to call servants. Maybe adult's were searching for a place where no spy of Kinzo would dare come, and they left note for Rosa, but she never joined to them. Because she never returned to that room?

~Diru~ · 2009-08-30, 15:34

Doesn't the Key in Marias envelope hint, that the chapel is already chosen as a place for murder?
Maybe a coincidence, but if Rosa wasn't involved, then the door was probably closed all the time in the end.

LuckySovietStar · 2009-08-30, 15:37

Or it was "place for secret Halloween party prepared by Kyrie and Rosa, hijacked by murderer". Also, why "difficulty is first rate" not only for us, but witch as well? Because, basically, GENJI IS A MURDERER is flawless theory at this point of red?

Antera Caramichael · 2009-08-30, 15:37

But if the door was closed, how the sibling could have entered the Chapel?

LuckySovietStar · 2009-08-30, 15:41

Well, maybe there was a duplicate. But destroying it after use sounds so meta, that most of my Game Masters in RPG games would kick my ass for metagaming like this. Ok, before we will say that door were closed for sure or not-can we propose some kind of time frame in which siblings entered Chapel?

~Diru~ · 2009-08-30, 15:49

If Rosa is not involved, then there is no timeframe where the door was opened, as the Dinner was after the Envelope was recieved...
Also about he Key-Destruction...
If i was on an Island and had to get rid of sth., I would just throw it off a cliff or sth similar, destroying the key itself is to much effort for the result I think...

Antera Caramichael · 2009-08-30, 15:49

Only one key to the chapel exists.
It is impossible to unlock the lock to the chapel without the chapel's key.
This morning, Rosa definitely took an envelope out of Maria's handbag, and thereby obtained the genuine key to the chapel.
That which was inside the envelope I entrusted Maria with, was definitely the key to the chapel.
Starting when Maria's key was received, and until the instant Rosa unsealed it the next day, it passed through no one's hands!!

The only weak point I found is that it was never stated in red that the door was indeed locked

~Diru~ · 2009-08-30, 15:55

Even if I don't know how much we can trust the Anime, Rosa turned the key exactly one quarter to the right and the door opened, that would mean that she unlocked it right?

LuckySovietStar · 2009-08-30, 15:57

Eeeeerm. I wonder about phrase Starting when Maria's key was received. Until now, I was reading it as "Starting when envelope that contains Maria's key", but can key be unsealed? Maybe true key is something, that can be *sealed*-you know, number combination or another safe trick. This way, key can be *memorized* and used without being passed trough anyone's hand at all. Tough...this stink hard. I don't believe it. Also, it would be possible (just like it is written above Chapel's door, by the way) to just guess right combination. After veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery long time. So this won't work. Or maybe guessing key=obtaining key. Oh, this is very Kinzo style.

It is impossible to unlock the lock to the chapel without the chapel's key.
It is impossible to unlock. Then what about locking

?

~Diru~ · 2009-08-30, 16:01

Quote:

It is impossible to unlock the lock to the chapel without the chapel's key.
It is impossible to unlock. Then what about locking ?

No door with an auto-lock exists other than Kinzo's study!

I can't think of another way to lock a door without a key

Antera Caramichael · 2009-08-30, 16:03

Nice try Lucky but speaking of the anime:
It's impossible to lock or unlock the door to the chapel without the chapel's key!

LuckySovietStar · 2009-08-30, 16:04

Well I can. I can lock my house doors from inside, without using key.
Edit
AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHH
Damn you, Inspector Anime!

Sill. We can't trust chapel opening scene; nor in anime, nor in novel. Battler not witnessed it. Nor he inspected chapel's door. Still, key being something abstract, should work. No matter how much people memorize key, there is still one key. And that key can be sealed in piece of paper.

~Diru~ · 2009-08-30, 16:06

Well if I close the door to my house it also locks but isn't that kind of a auto-lock?

I wonder how Battler wants to explain this alone

Antera Caramichael · 2009-08-30, 16:06

Hehehe I'm sure Ryukishi did this in purpose xD
The anime indeed showed us Rosa turning the key one time, but the scene then is cut, nothing deny her turning a second time. Well if you think about it, there would be no mystery if they showed us her turning the key in the other side xD.

LuckySovietStar · 2009-08-30, 16:09

At first I was seeing auto-lock as something that...locks at the moment when I close doors, without my participation in act of locking. But Kinzo's auto lock might be more like car's door auto lock. He used some kind of LEVER OF DOOM to open\close door for Genji in EP1, right?

~Diru~ · 2009-08-30, 16:13

I also thought it could be like that, but what is the auto part in it then? xD

Antera Caramichael · 2009-08-30, 16:16

Erm i don't know what Lever of Doom means but it is still impossible to lock or unlock the door to the chapel without the chapel's key!

LuckySovietStar · 2009-08-30, 16:17

I was always thinking that when Kinzo's door are closed, you can't open it again without key. Even if there is no one to lock it manually, they do it automatically. He is paranoid, after all

.
Edit
Lever of doom=some kind of mechanism that Kinzo used to open and lock his study doors without leaving his seat. If I remember correctly, used in one of Genji\Kinzo scenes in EP1.

~Diru~ · 2009-08-30, 16:19

Aah I get that now, so the door locks itself if you close it, but you can open it again by somekind of switch at the door, well I imagined it like this from the beginning soo...

It isn't used in the chapel however so that won't work again^^

2009-08-30, 15:26	Link #3381
~Diru~ SS.VDine full steam ahead Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Germany Age: 32	Hmm but didn't the blood trails lead to 2 culprits? That would lead to the servants, as Rosa or the Cousins killing them in Teamwork seems unlikely, but as the trails are already stated as "fake proof" it makes the servants do it unlikely on the same level... So did Nanjo do it? Damn this really is hard __________________ Endless...

2009-08-30, 15:34	Link #3383
~Diru~ SS.VDine full steam ahead Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Germany Age: 32	Doesn't the Key in Marias envelope hint, that the chapel is already chosen as a place for murder? Maybe a coincidence, but if Rosa wasn't involved, then the door was probably closed all the time in the end. __________________ Endless...

2009-08-30, 15:49	Link #3387
~Diru~ SS.VDine full steam ahead Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Germany Age: 32	If Rosa is not involved, then there is no timeframe where the door was opened, as the Dinner was after the Envelope was recieved... Also about he Key-Destruction... If i was on an Island and had to get rid of sth., I would just throw it off a cliff or sth similar, destroying the key itself is to much effort for the result I think... __________________ Endless...

2009-08-30, 15:55	Link #3389
~Diru~ SS.VDine full steam ahead Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Germany Age: 32	Even if I don't know how much we can trust the Anime, Rosa turned the key exactly one quarter to the right and the door opened, that would mean that she unlocked it right? __________________ Endless...

2009-08-30, 16:06	Link #3394
~Diru~ SS.VDine full steam ahead Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Germany Age: 32	Well if I close the door to my house it also locks but isn't that kind of a auto-lock? I wonder how Battler wants to explain this alone __________________ Endless...

2009-08-30, 15:30	Link #3382
LuckySovietStar Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Age: 31	Well, "difficulty is first-rate". This is how game describes Episode 2. Also, I found it strange. Why place where Shannon found "Chapel" note was so clean? It was like they didn't want to call servants. Maybe adult's were searching for a place where no spy of Kinzo would dare come, and they left note for Rosa, but she never joined to them. Because she never returned to that room?

2009-08-30, 15:37	Link #3384
LuckySovietStar Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Age: 31	Or it was "place for secret Halloween party prepared by Kyrie and Rosa, hijacked by murderer". Also, why "difficulty is first rate" not only for us, but witch as well? Because, basically, GENJI IS A MURDERER is flawless theory at this point of red?

2009-08-30, 15:37	Link #3385
Antera Caramichael French Maid Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Poitiers; France Age: 31	But if the door was closed, how the sibling could have entered the Chapel?

2009-08-30, 15:41	Link #3386
LuckySovietStar Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Age: 31	Well, maybe there was a duplicate. But destroying it after use sounds so meta, that most of my Game Masters in RPG games would kick my ass for metagaming like this. Ok, before we will say that door were closed for sure or not-can we propose some kind of time frame in which siblings entered Chapel?

2009-08-30, 15:49	Link #3388
Antera Caramichael French Maid Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Poitiers; France Age: 31	Only one key to the chapel exists. It is impossible to unlock the lock to the chapel without the chapel's key. This morning, Rosa definitely took an envelope out of Maria's handbag, and thereby obtained the genuine key to the chapel. That which was inside the envelope I entrusted Maria with, was definitely the key to the chapel. Starting when Maria's key was received, and until the instant Rosa unsealed it the next day, it passed through no one's hands!! The only weak point I found is that it was never stated in red that the door was indeed locked

2009-08-30, 15:57	Link #3390
LuckySovietStar Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Age: 31	Eeeeerm. I wonder about phrase Starting when Maria's key was received. Until now, I was reading it as "Starting when envelope that contains Maria's key", but can key be unsealed? Maybe true key is something, that can be sealed-you know, number combination or another safe trick. This way, key can be memorized and used without being passed trough anyone's hand at all. Tough...this stink hard. I don't believe it. Also, it would be possible (just like it is written above Chapel's door, by the way) to just guess right combination. After veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery long time. So this won't work. Or maybe guessing key=obtaining key. Oh, this is very Kinzo style. It is impossible to unlock the lock to the chapel without the chapel's key. It is impossible to unlock. Then what about locking ?

2009-08-30, 16:03	Link #3392
Antera Caramichael French Maid Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Poitiers; France Age: 31	Nice try Lucky but speaking of the anime: It's impossible to lock or unlock the door to the chapel without the chapel's key!

2009-08-30, 16:04	Link #3393
LuckySovietStar Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Age: 31	Well I can. I can lock my house doors from inside, without using key. Edit AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHH Damn you, Inspector Anime! Sill. We can't trust chapel opening scene; nor in anime, nor in novel. Battler not witnessed it. Nor he inspected chapel's door. Still, key being something abstract, should work. No matter how much people memorize key, there is still one key. And that key can be sealed in piece of paper.

2009-08-30, 16:06	Link #3395
Antera Caramichael French Maid Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Poitiers; France Age: 31	Hehehe I'm sure Ryukishi did this in purpose xD The anime indeed showed us Rosa turning the key one time, but the scene then is cut, nothing deny her turning a second time. Well if you think about it, there would be no mystery if they showed us her turning the key in the other side xD.

2009-08-30, 16:09	Link #3396
LuckySovietStar Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Age: 31	At first I was seeing auto-lock as something that...locks at the moment when I close doors, without my participation in act of locking. But Kinzo's auto lock might be more like car's door auto lock. He used some kind of LEVER OF DOOM to open\close door for Genji in EP1, right?

2009-08-30, 16:13	Link #3397
~Diru~ SS.VDine full steam ahead Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Germany Age: 32	I also thought it could be like that, but what is the auto part in it then? xD __________________ Endless...

2009-08-30, 16:16	Link #3398
Antera Caramichael French Maid Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Poitiers; France Age: 31	Erm i don't know what Lever of Doom means but it is still impossible to lock or unlock the door to the chapel without the chapel's key!

2009-08-30, 16:17	Link #3399
LuckySovietStar Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Age: 31	I was always thinking that when Kinzo's door are closed, you can't open it again without key. Even if there is no one to lock it manually, they do it automatically. He is paranoid, after all . Edit Lever of doom=some kind of mechanism that Kinzo used to open and lock his study doors without leaving his seat. If I remember correctly, used in one of Genji\Kinzo scenes in EP1.

2009-08-30, 16:19	Link #3400
~Diru~ SS.VDine full steam ahead Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Germany Age: 32	Aah I get that now, so the door locks itself if you close it, but you can open it again by somekind of switch at the door, well I imagined it like this from the beginning soo... It isn't used in the chapel however so that won't work again^^ __________________ Endless...