(L) Date A Live [Light Novel]

[AP24]

I think Vol 20 will be the final one and will have "good end" in the title. I wonder whose name will be in the final volume's title?

[ArandomMexican]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Who’s to say her True End isn’t her dying? A True End isn’t the same thing as a Good/Happy End, a lot of them end bittersweet with the hero or heroine, or even both, dying. The True End to Rio Reincarnation had

Spoiler:

Rio and Rinne “dying” and Shidou and everyone coming back to the normal world.

Maybe Wescott kills her and Shidou brings her back like she brought him back, in the way I theorized a while ago.

I do not consider killing her to bring her back to a real death (and I do not think she's definitely killed)

about what a true ending does not necessarily mean that they do not kill her, it's true. But, most of the time, true end is understood as the end in which everything comes out in the best possible way. so it seems to me more likely that she will not die

[Dark Rose Princess]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Who’s to say her True End isn’t her dying? A True End isn’t the same thing as a Good/Happy End, a lot of them end bittersweet with the hero or heroine, or even both, dying. The True End to Rio Reincarnation had

Spoiler:

Rio and Rinne “dying” and Shidou and everyone coming back to the normal world.

Maybe Wescott kills her and Shidou brings her back like she brought him back, in the way I theorized a while ago.

My bet is Mio, either in an alternate form (maybe Reine) or possibly her Inverse if she has one.

Ooohhhh, there’s an idea; maybe Shidou finds a way to stop her next volume and in her despair at not being able to bring Shinji back she goes Inverse. I’m not sure I even want to know what her Inverse would be.

Mio inversing would not fit with Kabbalism or the title 'True End'.

[Shinji103]

The Kabbalah thing aside, like I said a True End isn’t always a happy, end especially if this isn’t really the last volume.

[Dark Rose Princess]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

The Kabbalah thing aside, like I said a True End isn’t always a happy, end especially if this isn’t really the last volume.

And? A True End usually isn't 'and the heroine goes crazy', either. Like, I'm not saying 'True End' means 'happily ever after' (it often does, mind, but DAL itself has used 'True End' for a bittersweet ending before), but it certainly implies a high degree of 'sweet' to the hypothetical 'bittersweet' ending, so even if Tachibana did ignore Kabbalistic lore and invert her (which I highly doubt. V15 confirms that the Qliphah Crystals were born from Mio in her normal mind, and then refined into the Sephirah Crystals. It wouldn't make sense for the Qliphah Crystals to be born from Sephirah Mio if she had two sides), it wouldn't end with her Inversion at all and it would be a relatively minor occurrence - like in Mukuro Family.
A 'True End' would make no sense for the title if Mio went nuts at the end, considering the title is very clearly meant to parallel 'Game Over' from last volume...where she was going nuts all book. Its obvious from the title that V18 dealt with Mio at her worst, and this will be her at her best, even if it does result in her death.

[Anime-Oppai-Lover]

I wonder if Westcott's plans are even to steal Mio's powers at this point? With how Mio's Astral Dress resembles Rinne in her Ruler form, he could need her for a reason that requires her to serve as a living battery of sorts, if nor something similar.

Hopefully, this Volume is where we learn exactly what Westcott plans to do with her to accomplish his goal of a mage only world.

[Dark Rose Princess]

Originally Posted by Anime-Oppai-Lover

I wonder if Westcott's plans are even to steal Mio's powers at this point? With how Mio's Astral Dress resembles Rinne in her Ruler form, he could need her for a reason that requires her to serve as a living battery of sorts, if nor something similar.

Hopefully, this Volume is where we learn exactly what Westcott plans to do with her to accomplish his goal of a mage only world.

He states his goal is to acquire her power in V18. It has nothing to do with any of the non-canon Spirits.

[Shinji103]

@Chaos: You seem to be going off on the wrong thing, so let me stop you. I’m not saying Mio will go Inverse. That was just a branching thought, which is why I said “the Kabbalah thing aside.”
My theory on Mio is still what I’ve always said; I think she’ll die and Shidou will use her powers to bring her back like she brought him back, with him and Tohka (and the rest of the girls if it’s a harem end) raising her. That would actually fit a True End quite well.

[cyberdemon]

I could see her dying. Basically Shidou is able to seal half of her power but not all because he is still part mortal. Westcott uses that opportunity to kill her and steal the rest. As has been suggested Shidou takes her into himself and after the story is completed we'll see that she is later reborn as his daughter. This also leaves the volume after as a Shidou vs Westcott with both wielding her tremendous powers.

[Shinji103]

Pretty much all agreed there, except I’m not so sure he’ll be able to seal her. As far as we’ve seen Mio is willing to go, I doubt Shidou could convince her to stop especially when we’ve already seen she values Shini far more than him and was willing to effective very kill Shidou to bring Shinji back.
That and it would make for better storytelling in my opinion; Shidou has won over every spirit, so it would be a good change of pace for him to fail to seal Mio. (if he can seal her powers at all; she set up his sealing powers after all)
And I think the “taking her into himself” part might work better if Tohka was the one who took her in; wasn’t the description of what Mio did something like “she took him into her own womb”? That wouldn’t quite work with a male.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Pretty much all agreed there, except I’m not so sure he’ll be able to seal her. As far as we’ve seen Mio is willing to go, I doubt Shidou could convince her to stop especially when we’ve already seen she values Shini far more than him and was willing to effective very kill Shidou to bring Shinji back.
That and it would make for better storytelling in my opinion; Shidou has won over every spirit, so it would be a good change of pace for him to fail to seal Mio. (if he can seal her powers at all; she set up his sealing powers after all)
And I think the “taking her into himself” part might work better if Tohka was the one who took her in; wasn’t the description of what Mio did something like “she took him into her own womb”? That wouldn’t quite work with a male.

Yes Mio does value Shinji more than Shidou, to the point of willing to get rid of Shidou altogether. However that is the point of the date with Reine. Get Reine to fall in love with Shidou and when she is combined with Mio it could have an affect on her Mio's view of Shidou.

[Dark Rose Princess]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Pretty much all agreed there, except I’m not so sure he’ll be able to seal her. As far as we’ve seen Mio is willing to go, I doubt Shidou could convince her to stop especially when we’ve already seen she values Shini far more than him and was willing to effective very kill Shidou to bring Shinji back.
That and it would make for better storytelling in my opinion; Shidou has won over every spirit, so it would be a good change of pace for him to fail to seal Mio. (if he can seal her powers at all; she set up his sealing powers after all)
And I think the “taking her into himself” part might work better if Tohka was the one who took her in; wasn’t the description of what Mio did something like “she took him into her own womb”? That wouldn’t quite work with a male.

Of course he'll be able to reach her. If he couldn't, then 'Mio True End' would make no sense as a title.
Mio's villainy - as shown in Volume 18 (and as you'll be able to see when it's done) is the same as Mukuro's in that its due to innocence. There is one scene in which Mio literally asks Shido, confused like a child, what she should have done instead. The whole volume, from start to finish, is one massive hit around the head to hit it home that Mio is the same as Tohka - culminating in the reveal that Tohka IS part of Mio.

I'm not saying she'll live (if anything, I think she'll sacrifice herself for Shido and the Spirits, living on as a part of Tohka), but she will certainly be reached by Shido. It's the very core of what Date A Live is - dating the Spirits and making them fall in love so they won't destroy the world anymore.

Again, the 'True End' moniker does not always equal happy - as you say - but it is never outright villainizes the heroine either (unless the point of the game is corruption or w/e). I...genuinely do not understand how you can think she won't be reached. It baffles me.
Especially as your primary evidence for 'True End =/= happy' with regards to DAL is Rinne Utopia...where, just like Mio, Rinne heartlessly kills the Spirits over and over again to keep resetting time until Shido manages to get her to stop by taking her on a date. You are aware that's how the True Route goes, right?

Plus...'your taste' or not, it certainly isn't Tachibana's, if you've ever looked into his other works. You can want her to be a villain until the end all you want...but you'd better prepare to be disappointed.

Fair enough on the Inverse thing not being a real theory, though...but my point was that, even if there were an in-lore way for her to Inverse, she wouldn't for long in a volume named 'Mio True End'.

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Yes Mio does value Shinji more than Shidou, to the point of willing to get rid of Shidou altogether. However that is the point of the date with Reine. Get Reine to fall in love with Shidou and when she is combined with Mio it could have an affect on her Mio's view of Shidou.

Exactly my point ^

[Anime-Oppai-Lover]

Originally Posted by The Chaos Entity

Mio's villainy - as shown in Volume 18 (and as you'll be able to see when it's done) is the same as Mukuro's in that its due to innocence. There is one scene in which Mio literally asks Shido, confused like a child, what she should have done instead. The whole volume, from start to finish, is one massive hit around the head to hit it home that Mio is the same as Tohka - culminating in the reveal that Tohka IS part of Mio.

Probably one of the most heartbreaking moments in the volume by far, due to the simple fact it reminds us that while Mio has all this incredible power, she was still powerless when it mattered most.

The line about her not being weak like a human, and how she can't die despite wanting to... that alone can be infer a lot of things by just the wording.

And then Tohka herself being part of Mio? That could be a good metaphor for how Shinji's death has made her almost unrecognizable to who she used to be, while using Ain to erase her is rejecting to acknowledge the fact.

Poor girl needs a hug

[Dark Rose Princess]

Originally Posted by Anime-Oppai-Lover

It was probably one of the most heartbreaking moments in the volume by far, due to the simple fact it reminds us that while Mio has all this incredible power, she was still powerless when it mattered most.

The line about her not being weak like a human, and how she can't die despite wanting to... that alone can be inferred in a lot of ways just by the wording.

And then Tohka herself being part of Mio? That could be a good metaphor for how Shinji's death has made her almost unrecognizable to who she used to be, while using Ain to erase her is rejecting to acknowledge the fact.

Poor girl needs a hug

You're actually kind of right here, believe it or not.
Mio was to Shinji, what Tohka is to Shido (showing this is the point in the fragment chapters) and the novel basically states that Tohka would have done the exact same thing in Mio's place.
Tohka wants to help save Mio because Shido saved her once and now she sees a girl in the exact same place she was...and this time, she wants to help Shido save her.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Yes Mio does value Shinji more than Shidou, to the point of willing to get rid of Shidou altogether. However that is the point of the date with Reine. Get Reine to fall in love with Shidou and when she is combined with Mio it could have an affect on her Mio's view of Shidou.

That feels too easy; while possible, it feels like it would cheapen Mio’s resolve if she was so easily influenced after she was shown to go so far for Shinji.

Originally Posted by The Chaos Entity

Of course he'll be able to reach her. If he couldn't, then 'Mio True End' would make no sense as a title.
Mio's villainy - as shown in Volume 18 (and as you'll be able to see when it's done) is the same as Mukuro's in that its due to innocence. There is one scene in which Mio literally asks Shido, confused like a child, what she should have done instead. The whole volume, from start to finish, is one massive hit around the head to hit it home that Mio is the same as Tohka - culminating in the reveal that Tohka IS part of Mio.

I’m not sure why you’re focusing this much on the “True End” part; it doesn’t mean at all that Shidou will be able to reach her.
If anything, the rest of what you say here makes me think more that Shidou won’t be able to reach her, at least not before Westcott kills her. It’s too much “same old, same old.”

I'm not saying she'll live (if anything, I think she'll sacrifice herself for Shido and the Spirits, living on as a part of Tohka), but she will certainly be reached by Shido. It's the very core of what Date A Live is - dating the Spirits and making them fall in love so they won't destroy the world anymore

And this is (mostly) why I think Shidou won’t be able to actually save her; he won’t reach her in the end, Westcott kills her probably while she’s distracted with this, Shidou refuses to give up and finds a way to save her.

Again, the 'True End' moniker does not always equal happy - as you say - but it is never outriJust u...genuinely do not understand how you can think she won't be reached. It baffles me.
Especially as your primary evidence for 'True End =/= happy' with regards to DAL is Rinne Utopia...where, just like Mio, Rinne heartlessly kills the Spirits over and over again to keep resetting time until Shido manages to get her to stop by taking her on a date. You are aware that's how the True Route goes, right?

I never said outright villain. She’s trying to do something good, but in a bad way. It makes her an antagonist, not a villain.
Maybe she’ll be reached, maybe not. I don’t see how the True End title means she will, tough. I know lots of True Ends that don’t work the way you think.

Plus...'your taste' or not, it certainly isn't Tachibana's, if you've ever looked into his other works. You can want her to be a villain until the end all you want...but you'd better prepare to be disappointed.

I said opinion. Opinion and taste are two different things. I [I]like[/] it when all the good guys live happily ever after. (my taste) I don’t think it’ll be that straightforward though. (my opinion)
Again you’re mistaking me for calling her a villain.

Fair enough on the Inverse thing not being a real theory, though...but my point was that, even if there were an in-lore way for her to Inverse, she wouldn't for long in a volume named 'Mio True End'.

Your point here is basically my point; I liked the idea of Inverse Mio, but I don’t think it’ll happen.

[Dark Rose Princess]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

That feels too easy; while possible, it feels like it would cheapen Mio’s resolve if she was so easily influenced after she was shown to go so far for Shinji.

Cheapen her resolve how? V18 paints her like a lost child. How can you cheapen it more than that?
DAL has gone out of its way multiple times to show love as a miraculous force...have we been reading the same series?

Originally Posted by Shinji103

I’m not sure why you’re focusing this much on the “True End” part; it doesn’t mean at all that Shidou will be able to reach her.
If anything, the rest of what you say here makes me think more that Shidou won’t be able to reach her, at least not before Westcott kills her. It’s too much “same old, same old.”

...Yes it does. Just as 'Dead End' means someone will die, and 'Truth' means we will discover a truth.
Tachibana has never once deviated from that script - you're an idiot if you think he will. Its literally the whole point of the story.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

And this is exactly why I think Shidou won’t be able to actually save her; he won’t reach her in the end, Westcott kills her probably while she’s distracted with this, Shidou refuses to give up and finds a way to save her.

If that happens then DAL's tone would demand he be successful in saving her - especially in a volume named 'True End'.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

I never said outright villain. She’s trying to do something good, but in a bad way. It makes her an antagonist, not a villain.
Maybe she’ll be reached, maybe not. I don’t see how the True End title means she will, tough.

Everything you've said has implied villain.
I...I honestly can't believe someone as intelligent as you are could think 'True End' could mean 'the heroine dies before the hero gets to have a meaningful goodbye lol' - that's the definition of a BAD END...which was last volume.
Last volume was literally the 'Bad Ending' to this volume's 'True Ending'...or have you missed the overt gaming theme DAL has?

Originally Posted by Shinji103

I said opinion. Opinion and taste are two different things. I [I]like[/] it when all the good guys live happily ever after. (my taste) I don’t think it’ll be that straightforward though. (my opinion)
Again you’re mistaking me for calling her a villain.

It probably won't - but it is not Tachibana's style to let a heroine die without a meaningful goodbye with the hero. Mayuri and Rinne - both of whom V18 literally shows as symbolically representing her got that...and so will she.

[Anime-Oppai-Lover]

Originally Posted by The Chaos Entity

You're actually kind of right here, believe it or not.
Mio was to Shinji, what Tohka is to Shido (showing this is the point in the fragment chapters) and the novel basically states that Tohka would have done the exact same thing in Mio's place.
Tohka wants to help save Mio because Shido saved her once and now she sees a girl in the exact same place she was...and this time, she wants to help Shido save her.

I bet that's why Tachibana gave Tohka a darker color scheme, because Tohka is her shadow in a sense, another side of herself that she can ignore, but can't truly deny either.

You can act like its not there, but there's no way to rid yourself from your shadow, because its part of you. Just like Tohka is part of Mio.

She says it best when she states that Tohka is the one Spirit she feels could be any threat to her. The worst enemy someone can face is themselves, and what part of yourself is usually used to reflect yourself as a foe?

Your shadow.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by The Chaos Entity

Cheapen her resolve how? V18 paints her like a lost child. How can you cheapen it more than that?
DAL has gone out of its way multiple times to show love as a miraculous force...have we been reading the same series?

I think you’re mistaking her resolve. She’s determined to save Shinji no matter what.
Yes we have, but you keep missing my point; it’s been done “love conquers all” for the whole series, my theory is that Tachibana will throw us a curveball with this last girl.

...Yes it does. Just as 'Dead End' means someone will die, and 'Truth' means we will discover a truth.
Tachibana has never once deviated from that script - you're an idiot if you think he will.

That's not what a “True End” is. It doesn’t match all the True Ends I’ve seen at all.
Okay, I’d yiure going to start stopping down to name-calling because I don’t agree with you on a theory of what may happen, then maybe you’re not the respectable forum-goer I thought you were and I should give up on trying to have a peaceful and respectful debate with you and give up.

If that happens then DAL's tone would demand he be successful in saving her - especially in a volume named 'True End'.

Again, I think you’re putting too much in this volume’s title, especially if it’s not the last volume.

Everything you've said has implied villain.
I...I honestly can't believe someone as intelligent as you are can't see how 'True End' could mean 'the heroine dies before the hero gets to have a meaningful goodbye lol' - that's the definition of a BAD END...which was last volume.
Last volume was literally the 'Bad Ending' to this volume's 'True Ending'...or have you missed the overt gaming theme DAL has?

Wrong. The word “evil” is literally in the definition of “villain,” and Mio isn’t evil. She’s an antagonist, opposing the MC but not inherently evil.
Again, your definition of True End heavily opposes the definition I’ve seen used in gaming for years.

It probably won't - but it is not Tachibana's style to let a heroine die without a meaningful goodbye with the hero. Mayuri and Rinne - both of whom V18 literally shows as symbolically representing her got that...and so will she.

When did I say Mio won’t have a meaningful goodbye? I didn’t even say she’ll be gone for good.

[Dark Rose Princess]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

When did I say Mio won’t have a meaningful goodbye? I didn’t even say she’ll be gone for good.

I'm not even going to reply to the rest of that bullshit because either that statement is a lie...or we have horribly misunderstood one another.

You have repeatedly said you expect Mio to not be redeemed - or even reached - by Shido before Westcott kills her. HOW would there be a meaningful goodbye if Shido hasn't reached her? He reached Rinne before her death, after all, even if he was unable to save her.

Also...you are remembering that DAL uses old-school Dating Sims for its gaming references right? As in, Clannad-style old-school - wherein the True End is usually the best ending you can reach. Now, particularly given Rinne Utopia, that's not what I expect...but a volume called True End, deliberately coming after Game Over, which had 'Bad End' written all over its plot...is certainly not going to have a sad ending. It's not.

[Shinji103]

I’m going to go with this “discussion” is over.

Regardless of whether or not there’s been a misunderstanding, you’ve stooped down to name-calling and cursing after you refused to accept that my theory of what may happen to Mio is different than yours. Which is even more ridiculous on your part because you don’t actually know what’s going to happen any more than me. I didn’t care whether I was right or not, and I certainly wouldn’t have been upset if you turned out to be right, because I was merely theorizing as there was no way for me to actually know what will happen, but you can’t seem to accept even that little bit. Whether Mio really dies or not, is really redeemed or not, you act like you know for a fact what will happen and directly and deliberately insult me for having a different theory. Repeatedly. When did you become Tachibana? For that matter, when did you become so strongly, and even almost violently against my theory? I’ve been saying this for months ever since Mio killed most of the cast. Heck, I was saying this even before the previous volume. And as it turned out, I was right about Mio being against Shidou and the others.

So I’m ending this. We’ll find out what happens next month, but as far as this is concerned it doesn’t matter. It’s disappointing, to say the least, how you act like this because I have a theory that doesn’t conform to your preconceptions of what happens.