Senkaku/Diaoyu/Tiaoyutai/Pinnacle Islands dispute

[Sumeragi]

Those missiles use cluster warheads, to disable a carrier from being able to launch aircraft.

[Roger Rambo]

The fact that the Chinese haven't even done any tests with any of these alleged missiles really makes me question whether or not they're up to snuff to doing what everyone is theorizing what they can do. There's a difference between theoretically possible and having a practical system that can do it. And usually that difference is only bridged by extensive testing.

...not that this would be in China's interests frankly to test something like this out too much. If the tests fail spectacularly then it emboldens the USA. If the tests work out perfectly...then it spooks the USA into seriously pursuing counter measures and responses for it.

It might actually be in China's best interest for their anti-ship ballistic missiles to be a vague hypothetical nobody can quite figure out how legit they are.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

The fact that the Chinese haven't even done any tests with any of these alleged missiles really makes me question whether or not they're up to snuff to doing what everyone is theorizing what they can do. There's a difference between theoretically possible and having a practical system that can do it. And usually that difference is only bridged by extensive testing.

...not that this would be in China's interests frankly to test something like this out too much. If the tests fail spectacularly then it emboldens the USA. If the tests work out perfectly...then it spooks the USA into seriously pursuing counter measures and responses for it.

It might actually be in China's best interest for their anti-ship ballistic missiles to be a vague hypothetical nobody can quite figure out how legit they are.

With an awesome romanised name. DONGfeng.

[KiraYamatoFan]

This was an open letter written by the Japanese ambassador in Canada for the Globe and Mail from yesterday. I wasn't sure if I should have put in the news thread, but since it's about Japan vs. China, I thought it would fit here anyway.

After his visit to the Yasukuni Shrine last month, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe issued a statement titled Pledge For Everlasting Peace. He said the visit was made to pay his respects and to pray for the souls of the war dead, as well as to renew the pledge that Japan would never again wage war – nothing more and nothing less. Certainly not to pay homage to war criminals or to praise militarism, as Chinese Ambassador Zhang Junsai claimed in these pages recently.

Japan has accepted the judgments of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, including those judgments pertaining to Class A war criminals. In the past, Japan caused tremendous suffering to the people of many countries, particularly in Asia. The government of Japan has consistently made it clear it fully acknowledges this history, and has expressed deep remorse and heartfelt apology. Mr. Abe has clearly confirmed this position, and he has no intention whatsoever to challenge it.

Since the end of the Second World War, Japan has built a free and democratic country. It has consistently walked the path of peace for the past 68 years. It has developed many friendships with countries sharing similar values and ideals, including Canada. Japan will continue pursuing this path.

Japan’s postwar record illustrates the strength of its democracy. It demonstrates Japanese respect for human rights (one is not arrested in Japan for criticizing the government), commitment to peace (a strong contribution to United Nations peacekeeping operations) and willingness to help developing countries. China itself formally acknowledged Japan’s postwar record as a nation of peace in the Japan-China Joint Statement of 2008. By that time, many Japanese prime ministers had visited the Yasukuni Shrine.

China now criticizes Japan for “challenging the postwar international order” and calls Japan “militarist,” citing Mr. Abe’s visit to the Yasukuni Shrine, which is home to approximately 2.5 million war dead who have fallen in various conflicts since 1853.

It is important here to note inconsistencies in China’s stance toward the Yasukuni Shrine. More than 60 visits to the shrine have been made by Japanese prime ministers since the end of the Second World War, with almost half taking place after it was made public in 1979 that 14 Class A war criminals had been enshrined there just one year earlier. Prior to 1985, China never raised this issue, by which time more than 20 of these visits had taken place.

It is ironic that a country that has increased its own military spending by more than 10 per cent a year for the past 20 years should call any country “militarist.” China’s military budget is now the second largest in the world, and more than twice that of Japan. Its attempt to change the status quo by force or coercion has raised concerns not only in Japan but also among its neighbours throughout the East China Sea and the South China Sea. The security situation in the region is now changing rapidly and tensions are escalating as China seeks to pursue its own geopolitical goals without paying due respect to international law.

As neighbouring states, Japan and China should always be open to dialogue, even if there are differences on specific issues. Mr. Abe has reiterated that Japan will always welcome dialogue with China. Yet China has refused to engage in dialogue between leaders. I sincerely hope that China will come forward, rather than keep pursuing a policy designed to create a false image of Japan by invoking a ghost of “militarism” from seven decades ago.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle16331587/

Fellow members from another forum indicated it as a very interesting piece. Why of all times would a visit to that shrine be controversial now when it happened already a lot in the past with a total of 60 visits by prime ministers? And who are we to say that we know what those prime ministers were thinking by going there? Both questions are legitimate. I think we have been intoxicated with all the crap coming from Chinese media in recent years and that we lost sight of the entire background, including the fact that Beijing didn't care about such detail for a very long time.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Why of all times would a visit to that shrine be controversial now when it happened already a lot in the past with a total of 60 visits by prime ministers?

Because it was starting from 1985 that Nakasone Yasuhiro paid a visit in the official capacity of Prime Minister as opposed to an individual. It's been an issue ever since, and any way to twist this fact is an dishonest attempt to hide behind a curtain of "the other side is doing it for their benefit".

Sorry, but this is really an issue that those who are not well versed in shouldn't be attempting to comment on. Unlike most well-known conflicts (like the Israel issue), there are far subtle problems that have combined to the current sitatuion.

[Xellos-_^]

personally i blame MacArthur for this mess in East-Asia.

After Japan surrender if MacArthur had clean house thoroughly in japan instead of just a holding a few people responsible and letting the others walk. i seriously doubt we would same problems.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

personally i blame MacArthur for this mess in East-Asia.

After Japan surrender if MacArthur had clean house thoroughly in japan instead of just a holding a few people responsible and letting the others walk. i seriously doubt we would same problems.

I think that would be a bad idea since Americans were portrait as barbarians who eat humans and rape girls. Going house to house is like forcing people to commit suicide.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

personally i blame MacArthur for this mess in East-Asia.

After Japan surrender if MacArthur had clean house thoroughly in japan instead of just a holding a few people responsible and letting the others walk. i seriously doubt we would same problems.

Blame it on Kim, Stalin, and Mao for giving the US the excuse to go with the Reverse Course.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Blame it on Kim, Stalin, and Mao for giving the US the excuse to go with the Reverse Course.

^ I always blame Communism for ruining Asia. Look what we got: A Hypocrite Dragon and a Wild Pig as neighbors.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by NoemiChan

^ I always blame Communism for ruining Asia. Look what we got: A Hypocrite Dragon and a Wild Pig as neighbors.

This.

Also, I always blame that old senile bearded human trash (Ho Chi Minh) for instigating the course towards ruin of all Vietnam when the country could have done a lot better without his stupid ideology.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

This.

Also, I always blame that old senile bearded human trash (Ho Chi Minh) for instigating the course towards ruin of all Vietnam when the country could have done a lot better without his stupid ideology.

Ho Chi Minh was a nationalist not a communist. he turn to the soviet when the US laugh in his face when he ask independence for Vietnam for the French.

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Blame it on Kim, Stalin, and Mao for giving the US the excuse to go with the Reverse Course.

what excuse the US did a more through job in cleaning out Germany and the Russian were a lot closer.

Originally Posted by NoemiChan

^ I always blame Communism for ruining Asia. Look what we got: A Hypocrite Dragon and a Wild Pig as neighbors.

better hypocritical then a country that still depend on outside help.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Also, I always blame that old senile bearded human trash (Ho Chi Minh) for instigating the course towards ruin of all Vietnam when the country could have done a lot better without his stupid ideology.

Did you actually look at the alternatives, or are you talking of something based on one-sided information which is wrong from the start?

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

what excuse the US did a more through job in cleaning out Germany and the Russian were a lot closer.

Nope, it's the same issue in Germany also. The only difference was that the anti-Nazis gained control of the government, thus stopping the reverse course from going full-steam.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

better hypocritical then a country that still depend on outside help.

I never knew China was a hermit country.

I wonder if China and NK can managed by themselves in case of war without help from other nations. Beside, it's normal to seek help. Even Superpowers depends on their "weak" allies. Funny now, PRC is both a hypocrite and country that DEPENDS from others especially economy.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

Ho Chi Minh was a nationalist not a communist. he turn to the soviet when the US laugh in his face when he ask independence for Vietnam for the French.

He had a communist ideology since his days living in France.

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Did you actually look at the alternatives, or are you talking of something based on one-sided information which is wrong from the start?

He may have led the country to independence, but using the communist ideology was not enough of a valid excuse. Furthermore he made it clear about unifying the country by all means under the communist banner. Say whatever you want, but Ngo Dinh Diem was not too bad himself working with the anti-communist base before that episode with the self-immolating monk (in a time when Buddhist monks wanted to play a role in politics, which they should never have) and then his assassination.

We are completely digressing here. So I'll leave this bit at that.

[ReddyRedWolf]

China condemns Japan leader on visit to Ethiopia

And China is possessive of Africa.

Looks to me China doesn't like the idea of Japan making any inroads to Africa economically as it will lessen their influence and make them look worse.

There are a number of Chinese operated mines in Africa that shows bad labor practices.

[kuroishinigami]

Did you read the article at all? Because the title is misleading as hell. The subject of China(actually, only their top diplomatic representative at Ethiopia, not the Chinese government itself like the title seems to imply) protest is Abe's visit to Yasukuni(and of course Senkaku, which is nothing new), and the protest happen in Ethiopia, so not Abe's visit to Ethiopia itself. Next time, make sure you read the article first before riling people up

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

There are a number of Chinese operated mines in Africa that shows bad labor practices.

Not much of a surprise given the situation of Chinese operating mine in China, or the action of the mining industry in general in Africa and South America. Even mines operated by Canadian company have bad reputations.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Because it was starting from 1985 that Nakasone Yasuhiro paid a visit in the official capacity of Prime Minister as opposed to an individual. It's been an issue ever since, and any way to twist this fact is an dishonest attempt to hide behind a curtain of "the other side is doing it for their benefit".

How does a Prime Minister go somewhere as an individual and not a Prime Minister?

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

This.

Also, I always blame that old senile bearded human trash (Ho Chi Minh) for instigating the course towards ruin of all Vietnam when the country could have done a lot better without his stupid ideology.

You seriously don't know much about Ho Chi Minh and Vietnam in general....

Ngo's assassins...you think they do a better job than Ho?

[willx]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

How does a Prime Minister go somewhere as an individual and not a Prime Minister?

By doing it during his private time and disallowing any press coverage? The same way any other world leader goes on vacation or otherwise gets a "moment" to themselves?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by willx

By doing it during his private time and disallowing any press coverage? The same way any other world leader goes on vacation or otherwise gets a "moment" to themselves?

People of such profile do not go anywhere without being stalked. Abe has his own agenda of course but even if he didn't, there's no way he can go to the shrine without eliciting any noise after taking office