2013-03-26, 10:00 | Link #5461 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
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Ye gods, people, please watch the whole episode before pulling out your daggers!
Obligatory actual content note: When they're doing the drive through Oarai at the end, they show the main characters and their respective families... and Saori, waving at the guys who were talking about having their restaurants wrecked during the St. Gloriana friendly. Guess senshado still isn't getting her any luck with people her own age. |
2013-03-26, 10:02 | Link #5462 | ||
Truth Martyr
Author
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 38
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1) KMM practices Nishizumi-ryu. 2) Nishizumi-ryu states that victory at all cost, including sacrifice of to secure victory. 3) Miho's action in saving the distressed Panzer III is considered the wrong thing to do by most of KMM, with exceptions being that Panzer III tank commander (and presumably her crew). The inferences I draw are thus: 1) KMM crews understand that they may be sacrificed to the altar of victory, even if it risks their lives. 2) KKM crews are not volunteering to for sacrificial plays, but are resigned to the possibility of being ordered into sacrificial play. Soldiers, who have gone through the indoctrination that is part of basic training, do not take kindly to being considered pawns, let alone high school girls. 3) Third inference, which I just realised, is that it's entirely possible that KMM's girls have drunk the kool-aid and thoroughly buy into the Nishizumi-ryu philosophy, in which case this invalidates my points above and I've done your work for you, ojou. Having said that, if you want to talk about how concrete the inferences are, I'd say not so, as these are inferences drawn from what is known, versus the show actually spelling things out. Quote:
In contrast, Maho's senshado is about hit and fade, breaking contact when you can't fight, to reengage from a better position, and understanding that you don't sacrifice your teammates for victory (but if they agree and are willing to take the bullet for you, you don't look a gift horse in the mouth either.) Or at least that's how I see things.
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2013-03-26, 10:03 | Link #5463 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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2013-03-26, 10:03 | Link #5464 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Quote:
She could have rationalized it. Maybe if she left Rabbit Team there, they would have been able to restart themselves (the engine did restart while they were towing it, so this was not an impossible hope) and get out without help, maybe even before KMM can hit them. She opts to save them. Combined with last year, I see no reason why anyone would bet on the can that says "No, Miho won't sacrifice victory for the girls." Quote:
It was at the limit of the carbon armor - but the results prove that a Hetzer fitted with carbon armor can survive part of a Maus climbing over it for a short time. Quote:
But I'll give you a few reasons why for the most part they probably won't: 1) Jadgpanther-chan didn't even bother to use her radio to warn the formation a Hetzer's on its way. 2) The girls panicked when the Hetzer got into them even though by then for a moment it could not shoot them. Why do you think that is? Do you really believe such a team can be motivated to sacrifice themselves? Do you think they can correctly organize cooperation among themselves? 3) The need to order them to perform even a simple task like shooting at a Hetzer. 4) The complete breakdown of discipline by the time they reach town. You are right, it is quite a sorry performance. If they can't be motivated to conduct basic tasks, could they do anything more? Do you really, wholeheartedly tell me that you are going to put your coins in the side of them being able to work up the enthusiasm and relative competence? If so, why? Last edited by arkhangelsk; 2013-03-26 at 10:38. |
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2013-03-26, 10:03 | Link #5465 |
Moderate Haruhiist
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Spoiler for For size, but the scene in question where Maho lays it straight:
Scene in question. It's almost a frame reference to Little Army. Take note, this is coming from the Nishizumi heir, who's pretty much sacrificed her own happiness just to fit into that expected role. Can't get any more clearer than that.
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2013-03-26, 10:04 | Link #5466 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quote:
This means it is actually not possible for Miho to follow her family doctrine with the tanks she had; a direct attack with her existing disadvantages would have been suicide. Allowing me to be metaphorical for the moment, Miho is like a river; she flows around overwhelming opponents and strike where they are weak. Note that she spends most of the match running away. Attack when you can win, and avoid when you can't. And finally, only make sacrifices when you can trade true advantages. Every tank she lost in ep 12 was lost for good reason and lead to the final victory.
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2013-03-26, 10:04 | Link #5467 |
The Opened Ultimate Gate
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 29
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It all bold down to: Miho have never change in how she treat her team, she still a caring commander, using a "non-Nishizumi" retreat and ambush tatic. but before this ep, Sume never say that she follow Nishizumi-ryu whatsoever, but after Miho win, turn 180 degree and said : thaty was Nishizumi-ryu style. saving a disabled tank like PzIII which also drowning? "non-Nishizumi", saving M3 Lee: NISHIZUMI
also :
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Last edited by Daniel E.; 2013-03-26 at 11:49. |
2013-03-26, 10:09 | Link #5468 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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Quote:
Which brings up the question: Is the devolved form all there is to Nishizumi-ryu, or should we be looking at the core creed? For that matter, is Maho just stuck within the devolved and static structure, while Miho has been able to break through? This is the bigger issue at hand, not just the superficial "was Miho ruthless or not". |
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2013-03-26, 10:13 | Link #5469 |
Moderate Haruhiist
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Again, when the Nishizumi heir (Maho), who's been pretty much personally tutored by the Nishizumi Matriarch, says that one isn't actually following the school, but going their own way, says a lot.
Also that self-satisfied smile by Maho. All that hard work finally paid off. Spoiler for For size:
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2013-03-26, 10:13 | Link #5470 |
The Opened Ultimate Gate
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 29
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EXPLAIN THIS PIC:
not throwing away victory? what if KMM catch up which them a bit ealier, and in fact they did, they were getting shot my KMM after get out of the river, what if one tank get lucky and shoot the flag panzer?
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2013-03-26, 10:17 | Link #5472 | |
Moderate Haruhiist
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Note everytime Shiho isn't on panel, Maho stops being businesslike and turns into a doting sister.
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2013-03-26, 10:18 | Link #5473 | |
The Opened Ultimate Gate
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 29
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just keep your bias to yourself and stop frustrating ppl who try to reason with your bias. you are making this thread unpleasant to read, like you did several page ago.
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2013-03-26, 10:20 | Link #5475 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Maho and Shiho do not believe for a minute that Miho was following the Nishizumi path. What they DID agree was that Miho's path was superior on the day. That was why Shiho finally clapped at the end. Shiho wasn't accepting Miho back into the fold; Shiho was accepting that her own teachings were soundly defeated.
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2013-03-26, 10:21 | Link #5476 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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I'll be blunt: If people can't deal with disagreements, it's their problem. |
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2013-03-26, 10:24 | Link #5477 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quote:
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2013-03-26, 10:30 | Link #5478 |
Moderate Haruhiist
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Vallen: Actually given a choice, Maho would rather not be doing this Nishizumi heir thing (Little Army again), if not for the fact that if she doesn't, Miho will be stuck with the role instead. So gotta keep the mum distracted and happy.
As for Nishizumi-ryu, the current paradigm is likely what (at least) the past two generations of Nishizumis have known. Devolved or no, it IS the creed... and as Maho succinctly observes, Miho's current style is very far from it.
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2013-03-26, 10:33 | Link #5479 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Quote:
Fine. In that case, saving the crew was also only an extra risk. In fact, a much lower risk. As you say, the enemy is right in front. The gunner shouldn't need the commander's assistance to see them. The gunner and loader could have completed the engagement cycle by themselves. It is reasonable to assume they can at least be motivated to save their own butts. The risk was minimal to nil. By your logic, it should be most acceptable. And yet, we know of Mother and Erika's wonderful reaction to both. 'Nuff said. |
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Tags |
comedy, gup, original anime, slice of life, sports, tanks |
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