One Piece Film "Z" discussion (manga spoilers)

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

Speaking of age regression.............why didn't Z have Ain regress his age a couple of times back to his prime? True, he was still strong but he was weaken from age and whatever else and wasn't even at current admiral level.

It's a possible plot-hole, but I'm thinking that it's because Z wanted to make one last stand before he died. Throughout his life, he had to experience some terrible tragedies, and we can see that he had become tired and exhausted. It's as though he wanted peace through death, but not before completing his final objective. Being restored to his youth kind of would have went against all that. Not to mention that Z is an honourable man, so it's questionable if he would want to "cheat" life like that.

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

It's a possible plot-hole, but I'm thinking that it's because Z wanted to make one last stand before he died. Throughout his life, he had to experience some terrible tragedies, and we can see that he had become tired and exhausted. It's as though he wanted peace through death, but not before completing his final objective. Being restored to his youth kind of would have went against all that. Not to mention that Z is an honourable man, so it's questionable if he would want to "cheat" life like that.

i agree. he didn't strike me as a sort of man who desired power or even revenge. he was an idealistic man disenchanted by reality. if he wanted revenge he would've gone after the pirates who ruined his life. instead he went after the root of the problem just like any "hero" would. only his means was cruel, twisted and even more ruthless that those of the pirates whom he despised the most.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

I will say this though, the excuse of an old person no longer being in their prime and sick just so Luffy could win should be used no more in these films. It's been used twice now with Shiki and Zephyr. The next film should have a different approach as to how Luffy will overcome his adversary.

[SilverSyko]

I think I liked this movie a little more more than Strong World, but both have their ups and downs.

Strong World had more emotionally driven characters, an epic one-time-only finishing move against Shiki and a touching ending that made the bonds between the feel stronger than ever. The plot probably could have been better though IMO, something about breeding an army of animals to wage war doesn't wow me very much.

Film Z has a much better plot involving the Dyna Stones, way better fight choreography and a bittersweet ending with the death of an antagonist that a lot of the audience would have some slight sympathy for because of his tragic past. Unfortunately there wasn't much reason for the Strawhats to get involved this time around, Luffy only ultimately fought Zephyr because he abducted his hat.

So yeah, while I love both movies and what they gave me, I do personally find Film Z better.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

I think I liked this movie a little more more than Strong World, but both have their ups and downs.

Strong World had more emotionally driven characters, an epic one-time-only finishing move against Shiki and a touching ending that made the bonds between the feel stronger than ever. The plot probably could have been better though IMO, something about breeding an army of animals to wage war doesn't wow me very much.

Film Z has a much better plot involving the Dyna Stones, way better fight choreography and a bittersweet ending with the death of an antagonist that a lot of the audience would have some slight sympathy for because of his tragic past. Unfortunately there wasn't much reason for the Strawhats to get involved this time around, Luffy only ultimately fought Zephyr because he abducted his hat.

So yeah, while I love both movies and what they gave me, I do personally find Film Z better.

I'm sorry...........but did you just say Strong World had more emotionally driven characters? Film Z was so much more emotionally charged than Strong World, Z alone had a million time better than Shiki emotionally and his relationship with his students and how it culminated was just amazing.

[SilverSyko]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

I'm sorry...........but did you just say Strong World had more emotionally driven characters? Film Z was so much more emotionally charged than Strong World, Z alone had a million time better than Shiki emotionally and his relationship with his students and how it culminated was just amazing.

I was actually referring to the Strawhats specifically there. Suppose I should have clarified that. Their relationship with Nami was a huge focal point of that movie after all. I felt Z in comparison the Strawhats visible feelings amongst themselves really didn't ever reach that same level.

Of course I don't deny Zephyr and his subordinates were much more sympathetic and emotionally charged antagonists than Shiki and his crew was.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

I was actually referring to the Strawhats specifically there. Suppose I should have clarified that. Their relationship with Nami was a huge focal point of that movie after all. I felt Z in comparison the Strawhats visible feelings amongst themselves really didn't ever reach that same level.

Of course I don't deny Zephyr and his subordinates were much more sympathetic and emotionally charged antagonists than Shiki and his crew was.

Oh yes, but then again in Strong World Nami was kidnapped for most of the movie while none of the crew was in danger during Z (regression and fighting aside).

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

I will say this though, the excuse of an old person no longer being in their prime and sick just so Luffy could win should be used no more in these films. It's been used twice now with Shiki and Zephyr. The next film should have a different approach as to how Luffy will overcome his adversary.

well technically, luffy didn't defeat zephyr. they both went down, nobody really won. zephyr just sort of bowed down claiming he was somehow satisfied. and then kizaru and the marines arrived. zephyr was really defeated by kizaru and his former subordinates, not luffy. that's how i saw it anyway.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

well technically, luffy didn't defeat zephyr. they both went down, nobody really won. zephyr just sort of bowed down claiming he was somehow satisfied. and then kizaru and the marines arrived. zephyr was really defeated by kizaru and his former subordinates, not luffy. that's how i saw it anyway.

Luffy stood up after the fight and reclaimed his strawhat, whereas Zephyr was still lying on the ground asking Luffy to finish him off. I'd say that counts as a victory for Luffy. Of course, it was Zephyr's health that led to his defeat. Kizaru was there to pick up the leftovers.

One could interpret the scene as how you did, however, and that's perfectly fine.

[ninetail1989]

i just watched film z..

do they follow the manga ??or most of the stuff are made up or something?..

1>Aokiji lost his leg....i know from the manga he got quite a huge scar on his shoulder but didnt know about the leg.

2>Kizaru still an admiral??

3>New pacifista ...??raped by Franky...

[bigdeal000]

Originally Posted by ninetail1989

i just watched film z..

do they follow the manga ??or most of the stuff are made up or something?..

1>Aokiji lost his leg....i know from the manga he got quite a huge scar on his shoulder but didnt know about the leg.

2>Kizaru still an admiral??

3>New pacifista ...??raped by Franky...

As far as I know, film Z was written by Oda, and he said it's semi-cannon (aka it follows the manga, but not completely). Now, about point 2, yes Kizaru is still an admiral, Aokiji is the one that lost his job. I dunno about the others...

[Yui Is My Wife]

Hands up who else cried when Z met his magnificent and heroic end?

*Hand Up*

[Libros]

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife

Hands up who else cried when Z met his magnificent and heroic end?

*Hand Up*

I nearly cried. I just felt deep sympathy and sadness, but no tears.

[Yui Is My Wife]

Z's death is THE ideal death for a man; on his feet, foes before him, with tears of love and respect shed in his honor.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by ninetail1989

i just watched film z..

do they follow the manga ??or most of the stuff are made up or something?..

1>Aokiji lost his leg....i know from the manga he got quite a huge scar on his shoulder but didnt know about the leg.

2>Kizaru still an admiral??

3>New pacifista ...??raped by Franky...

1 and 2 are definitely canon. 3 not sure.

[bigdeal000]

I guess next time someone answers (s)he's gonna know about all three of them

[tetsuo69]

this movie was a let down for me, the fights were the worst imo.

[Gintokifan22]

Watching the film with subs was fun, either way though its a great film. Is it true that funimation already has the rights to this?

[BaKaBaKaOtaKu]

I've seen the film in cinema, and I have to say it was the best OP film I've seen , beating SW in a pulp. I don't know about the others, but I personally think that the fight scenes were well-done. The armament-imbued fist to fist battle between Z and Luffy was my favorite scene out of them all. And dayum, got a bit emotional with Z's last words to Luffy T___T

Anyway, FZ isn't canonical to the manga, right?

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by BaKaBaKaOtaKu

Anyway, FZ isn't canonical to the manga, right?

It can be argued that the film is semi-canon. Zephyr's past is canon. The last unknown shichibukai is also mentioned by Garp as the one who cut off Z's arm. Other than that, it doesn't really fit into the manga's storyline continuity.