(L) Freezing [Manga]

[Nemuru]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

For many protagonists, strength = power to defend others.
Shinji and Kazuya, once seeing their loved ones/friends in danger, will put themselves in danger to protect them, THAT is strength and wat makes them strong.

Limiters' duty is to give support to their Pandora, they aren't front line attackers. Normally, once the limiters fall, so does the Pandora soon after (Marine and Ingrid are examples).

It may be a deus ex machina but at least it's plot consistent. We know that Kazuya has this powerful Freezing, and no, it does not always work to favorable conditions. Why? He collapses afterwards after using it, so he can't spam the ability. next, Kazuya's freezing may not be so effective against Novas anymore as demonstrated when Cassie did a counter. So, you can't really depend on Kazuya's ability to save the day.

I don't want to use the common phrase "if you read my post". I'm simply looking for something outside of freezing..... A lot of protagonist are more developed over time, he might be staying within his role as a limited maybe as a side character but he should be doing more as Aoi Kuzuya the protagonist. This is why his character will remained one-dimension.....

on the part that I bold.... I'm thinking o'really... beside getting beaten up by normal people, I don't remember any pandora moment where he does something useful outside of freezing. So I just looked at chapter 34.. screams senpai 3 times than proceeds to try and freeze and fails... talk about embarrassing. Not to mention he always being protected by others. So whatever strength you mention protecting the one they like I certainly don't see it. He is being protected by others more than he could achieved by screaming their names. Let say he tried something which may be manly in your book at that moment, why did he stop and why doesn't he do more........

The simply and most easiest development would be training........ he is not like Kazuki from Maburaho.

p.s knowing whats about to come ahead... makes it unfun for me since.... since I won't be able to discuss it, awell.

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by Nemuru

I don't want to use the common phrase "if you read my post". I'm simply looking for something outside of freezing..... A lot of protagonist are more developed over time, he might be staying within his role as a limited maybe as a side character but he should be doing more as Aoi Kuzuya the protagonist. This is why his character will remained one-dimension.....

on the part that I bold.... I'm thinking o'really... beside getting beaten up by normal people, I don't remember any pandora moment where he does something useful outside of freezing. So I just looked at chapter 34.. screams senpai 3 times than proceeds to try and freeze and fails... talk about embarrassing. Not to mention he always being protected by others. So whatever strength you mention protecting the one they like I certainly don't see it. He is being protected by others more than he could achieved by screaming their names. Let say he tried something which may be manly in your book at that moment, why did he stop and why doesn't he do more........

The simply and most easiest development would be training........ he is not like Kazuki from Maburaho.

p.s knowing whats about to come ahead... makes it unfun for me since.... since I won't be able to discuss it, awell.

Just because he almost fails to protect them doesn't mean he's weak. >_>.
He has the willpower and the intention, that is good enough.
Embarrassing? I'd say he is brave for even attempting to try Freezing on such an opponent that looked like human. At least he isn't blood thirsty.
So, wat do you expect Kazuya to do? Materialise a nova weapon? -_-

[j0x]

cannot wait for chapter 42, i foresee a horrible death for that brother of Stella

[Nemuru]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Just because he almost fails to protect them doesn't mean he's weak. >_>.
He has the willpower and the intention, that is good enough.
Embarrassing? I'd say he is brave for even attempting to try Freezing on such an opponent that looked like human. At least he isn't blood thirsty.
So, wat do you expect Kazuya to do? Materialise a nova weapon? -_-

keep trying........

when a character stops and worry that his attack doesn't work that is a sign of weakness as he has given up. even though he has a great tool and but he feels inferior which makes the situation all worst. I don't see intention to strive better nor do I see his determination. He will try to freeze once and pray it will succeed that is exaggeration but I'm not shown determination, a homing of his power or doing something else besides freezing. Even emotional support he is not there beside telling Stella to stop beating the crap out of people.

If strength arise from power that itself isn't real strength. He stop and never tried a second time... why didn't he attempt it again even if it was futility it would amount to him wanting to protect. Giving up......... is rather unsightly.

This is where we draw the line, since it will be repetitive... I'm not being picky I'm simply asking what else can he do besides freezing which is a plot device. Any emotional determination would suffice as strength for me. These protagonist bothers me more than when they have power but are not using every means to achieve their goal.

in the next 3 chapter we will get some more ........................ Last post from this debate for me, If freezing is your way to say he is strong he is no different from any other side character limiter that using freezing to help their Pandora. But at the same time he isn't doing anything more that would valid as true strength. This manga has no strong males which is rather distasteful, lol, why did I start thinking of Raki from claymore....

[vg166]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Ok, chapter 62...
- we have a funeral for that E-pandora
- I think the lead scientist? comes in, mocks the death of the E-pandora.
- Amelia snaps, saying that her friend is dead. Scientist rebukes that people die as normal.
- Amelia snaps that the Mark IV pandora project ( I assume it's the E-pandora project) but gets restrained and slapped by the scientist.

Don't think Dr. Ohara is mocking the E-Pandoras. Looks like she is more being cold and keeping them focused on what they are suppose to do. Given her reaction in private when no one else is around, she seems to feel for it every bit as Amelia and the other E-Pandoras do. At least that's my impression.

I'm also pretty sure that Dr. Aoi (Kazuya and Kazuha's grandfather) doesnt' have clean hands in everything either.

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by Nemuru

keep trying........

when a character stops and worry that his attack doesn't work that is a sign of weakness as he has given up. even though he has a great tool and but he feels inferior which makes the situation all worst. I don't see intention to strive better nor do I see his determination. He will try to freeze once and pray it will succeed that is exaggeration but I'm not shown determination, a homing of his power or doing something else besides freezing. Even emotional support he is not there beside telling Stella to stop beating the crap out of people.

If strength arise from power that itself isn't real strength. He stop and never tried a second time... why didn't he attempt it again even if it was futility it would amount to him wanting to protect. Giving up......... is rather unsightly.

This is where we draw the line, since it will be repetitive... I'm not being picky I'm simply asking what else can he do besides freezing which is a plot device. Any emotional determination would suffice as strength for me. These protagonist bothers me more than when they have power but are not using every means to achieve their goal.

in the next 3 chapter we will get some more ........................ Last post from this debate for me, If freezing is your way to say he is strong he is no different from any other side character limiter that using freezing to help their Pandora. But at the same time he isn't doing anything more that would valid as true strength. This manga has no strong males which is rather distasteful, lol, why did I start thinking of Raki from claymore....

Willpower and determination is strength.

Well, any person would begin to worry if they're trump card has failed. It isn't a sign of weakness, so would u call a strategic retreat as a sign of weakness then? And only a fool would continue using the same technique that obviously serves to be of no benefit.
Emotional determination eh? I think the author is sidetracking Kazuya too much imo.
Um, I never said that all the limiters are weak, if they stand up with their partner and fight in the face of death, that is strength.

[Nemuru]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Willpower and determination is strength.

Well, any person would begin to worry if they're trump card has failed. It isn't a sign of weakness, so would u call a strategic retreat as a sign of weakness then? And only a fool would continue using the same technique that obviously serves to be of no benefit.
Emotional determination eh? I think the author is sidetracking Kazuya too much imo.
Um, I never said that all the limiters are weak, if they stand up with their partner and fight in the face of death, that is strength.

it was a life and death situation.... regardless how shock they may be...there is no such thing as a tactical retreat since it will means game over. The next few chapters will speak for itself so I won't need to bother and will just wait it out.

However I will agree that the author hasn't developed Kazuya enough even though he is the protagonist as I have mention before in my post.

[Magin]

The problem is that only in UxU does the author actually have a strong male protagonist (well, I'm not sure about Zero or Phantom King, as I've never read em)... in every other work of his, it's always "busty powerful ladies with a pathetic male in tow who may or may not have some uber ability that practically never shows itself" (okay, so Onihime vs doesn't quite fit that... since I'm sure the main guy in that one has no abilities whatsoever)

[FlavorOfLife]

I like the E-Pandora arc's new characters and Elizabeth's development. I get the feeling Chiffon is not as resigned/uncaring to the event as she tries to act in the shower.

[Arturro]

Originally Posted by Magin

The problem is that only in UxU does the author actually have a strong male protagonist (well, I'm not sure about Zero or Phantom King, as I've never read em)... in every other work of his, it's always "busty powerful ladies with a pathetic male in tow who may or may not have some uber ability that practically never shows itself" (okay, so Onihime vs doesn't quite fit that... since I'm sure the main guy in that one has no abilities whatsoever)

Main protagonist from Aflame Inferno is not so bad. Still, girls need to protect him, but at least he is able to do something by himself, once or twice he even protected someone. Main protagonist of Phantom King is better than Im Dal Young average male protagonist, but still nothing special.

[dee32]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Kazuya: Im still praying your balls drop before the end of the manga. What else is it going to take for you to be a man. I mean you are on a tropical island at one of the most luxurious retreats in the world (all paid for btw) You are with one of the most beautiful Pandora's enrolled at genetics she bought you along to meet her family, shes been in sun dresses and bathing suits since you got there and all you can talk about his how great her brother is and your sister Why not take a walk on the beach or go swimming together. He Satella room so fast it was almost like he was running away

Violet: Seriously, i can understand wanting to fix your dysfunctional family. But theres a better way to do it. You dont just bring someone who caused so much emotional damage to another that she has PSD so server she beat the living hell out of anyone who touches her. Theres a proper way to do things i also think the family should reconcile especially with Satella being a Pandora and Louis being a Limiter both could die at anytime in battle but please do not be so absent minded about something thats obviously a server problem.

Louis: Disgusting little prick of a man the crap you pulled in the past better not happen again. You better redeem yourself. You were a child then but your an adult now accountable for your actions.

Satella: Get some courage girl and tell the dimwit how you feel. You only managed to invite him to the island because you couldn't stand the thought of leaving him behind with Rana. If you want something you gotta ask for it or Kazuya will never notice, its a big step to ask him to be official partners.


Decent chapter obviously a set up for whats coming. Should be interesting to see how this plays out and if Satella and Kazuya grow closer.

[Kazuya] You blockhead does Stella have to thow herself at you for you to stay the night with her. Right now she needs you more than ever. She needs your support now to over come Louis.

[Stella] I think if Louis tries to force himself on Stella that she should give him the beat down she couldn't give him when they were children. Stella doesn't have kill him just beat him down to show him that you aren't going to take it anymore and should he try again that he may lose his life.

Violet: What the hell were you thinking? You know what Louis put Stella through? You think a rich family like them would have spies? She should know that Stella hasn't got over her trama with Louis. If something should happen to Stella you have no body to blame but yourself you put her in reach of Louis.

[Louis] To me you haven't change your ways. You just grew up to be a wolf in sheep clothing sexual predator. You are probly abusing the girl you are with now. Leave Stella alone or you might get the can of whip a** she was saving just for you.

[Magin]

So... how much rage do you think will be generated in this thread before the scanlators catch up to the RAWs? I'm holding off on reading anything till after the RAGE arc is completely scanlated, plus maybe another chapter or two, and then I'll do a huge burn. Which is about the only thing keeping me from raging myself... that, and I'm fully informed on the spoilers

[jzmagic]

Originally Posted by Magin

The problem is that only in UxU does the author actually have a strong male protagonist (well, I'm not sure about Zero or Phantom King, as I've never read em)... in every other work of his, it's always "busty powerful ladies with a pathetic male in tow who may or may not have some uber ability that practically never shows itself" (okay, so Onihime vs doesn't quite fit that... since I'm sure the main guy in that one has no abilities whatsoever)

Yes that's that's one of my gripes with Young's works, the male leads suck. Also, the excessive female abuse is hard to take as well. The guy in UxU is easily the best male lead in any of his works.

[Magin]

UxU is actually what got me aware of this guy in the first place (and someone's siggy got me interested in UxU...). But basically, in addition to the criteria listed above, expect extreme female mistreatment as well

[germanturkey]

well, it just depends on how serious this arc gets. we all know what the content will be, but how graphic, extreme, and emotional it is is still up in the air, because i'm pretty sure the majority of us here haven't read the raws.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by germanturkey

well, it just depends on how serious this arc gets. we all know what the content will be, but how graphic, extreme, and emotional it is is still up in the air, because i'm pretty sure the majority of us here haven't read the raws.

The majority have not. So let's not talk about them. >.>

[solomon]

Read the chapter;

All I will say is Louis is LIKELY still Louis

, and frankly I am getting tired of these wimpy ass male protags. I don't need Kamina everywhere but even modest real life Japanese dudes would get the hint Sattella's been beaming out for christ sakes, damn!

[FlavorOfLife]

Originally Posted by solomon

, and frankly I am getting tired of these wimpy ass male protags. I don't need Kamina everywhere but even modest real life Japanese dudes would get the hint Sattella's been beaming out for christ sakes, damn!

Continue reading. Fom eps 40 to 50, the reaction for the male lead i very likely to be thus.

Idiot!->Yes!->Weak!

[vg166]

Random thoughts of Chapter 60-63. My Chinese is even worse than my Japanese so I expect some of the thoughts to be wrong.

Spoiler for Spoilers, of course:

Looks like all the top ranked Pandoras got mobilized against the Nova-form but we didn't see the German #1 getting ready to rumble.

But why are the Pandoras wearing their academy uniforms to the fight but their Limiters are in their combat outfits? All of them.

Oh no, the Nova-form is attacking Amelia, only to be saved by Elizabeth. But the same Elizabeth that took out 2 Nova-form Pandoras during the attack on Western Genetics, was almost trashed by the E-Pandora Nova-form. She only get saved because Amelia took a blade meant for Elizabeth's back, in her shoulder. Now Amelia's next reactions are more understandable because she manage to get some response trying to talk to her friend.

Charles had different ideas. We see how powerful the E-Pandora Nova-form using the Mark-IV is, because it manage to fight Charles to a draw until the French chick got serious and opened the can of whoopass - Tempest Turn with blades, fully extended. Apparently Charles had been trying not to kill the E-Pandora NF by using hand to hand attacks but that didn't work.

Even Elizabeth has to turn away from the result. Both Roxanne and Chiffon are shocked by the scene, and so is Charles. Amelia goes berserk and has to be restrained by the other E-Pandoras, who aren't taking it too well either. Maybe that explains why when Dr. Oohara shows up at the service the E-Pandoras are holding for their friend, she comes with the rest of the Pandoras.

But it's clear that Oohara is not as cold and hard as she appears to the Pandoras. She only breaks down in private. And I think it was the E-Pandora who went Nova-form during the Mark-IV experiment who wanted to continue when the experiment was going bad, back in Chapter 59.

Another theme from Freezing: the best way to understanding and friendship is beating the crap out of each other. It worked for Satellizer and Cassie, and looks like it is working for Elizabeth and Amelia, who cries on the shoulder of the Pandora. Elizabeth doesn't seem as cool and collected as she appears in the shower scene with Chiffon - Chiffon fans, take note! Of course, Satellizer heard it all too...

At the pace things are going, I can see a real Nova attack on the Alaska base in a couple chapters...

[shaselai]

Spoiler for spoiler 64-65:

There's a board meeting where people are discussing the Mark IV project and how it is bad for the morale and how even researchers are questioning it. The head guy said to only release positive results and start another experiment in 2 weeks (finding new candidate). Andre is discussing why Elizabeth is taking such a big risk releasing info to her family company Mably especially almost everyone is supporting the E pandora experiment and she says it is her Noblesse Oblige code which basically mean "protect the weak". Then we see another board meeting of Elizabeth's dad discussing how they should approach this. Basically many people are against it because it could mean the downfall of the company but the dad said Elizabeth is following the family code Nblesse Oblige and if he betrays her trust then he is not a good father etc. so he contacted an US official about it and the official is very surprised such inhumane experiments exist and is surprised Elizabeth is the one who leaked it.



AFTER Elizabeth betrayed the organization and is against the Mk IV and spread the secrets to the world and the top brass called her in to question her. She said how she is against something that has a fatal side effect and he told her she has no place to make these decisions. Elizabeth then gets to be taken away. We then see the main headquarters for Mably in US where apparently the investigation on the Pandora E project resulted in no problems at all. The boss was very surprised because he never heard there was an investigation and we know the US official that was contacted before resigned... Then we see Elizabeth put on a chair and got electric shocked (peeing on the chair too....-_-). She was shocked on her breasts and head and after 20 mins the torturer suggested to stop or else irreparable damages could occur and the boss said to keep going since Pandora is "tough" and they should only follow orders anyway. After 3 days she got released and very freightened when seeing andre and the gang.We then hear that the family company Elizabeth is from Mably is being investigated for corruption and strikes going around because of its actions - basically a plot against Mably.

So i guess the morale of the story is not even the second strongest is safe and is it really worth risking an entire company for an honor code Noblesse Oblige????