Fate/ Series Q&A

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

I thought Gilgamesh was summoned as Archer because Gilgamesh uses his weapons as projectiles.

Were you seriously thinking that Gilgamesh in his life time was able to shoot swords out of thin air?
That ability is granted after he was given the Archer class. After, we can't have an archer that doesn't shoot...

Can Emiya trace anything other than swords? I'm curious because it seems swords were the only thing he was able to successfully trace.

In theory, yes. But he is yet to master tracing so he cannot. He can only take out what is within his reality marble.

[OceanBlue]

Oh, I wasn't thinking in regards to Gilgamesh. The tracing thing makes sense too.
Thanks for answering my questions.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

Oh, I wasn't thinking in regards to Gilgamesh. The tracing thing makes sense too.
Thanks for answering my questions.

Well I was trying to be funny. Guess I failed...

[rastilin]

Gilgamesh's power may have more to do with being an eirai than an Archer. I've always assumed that they get their powers after being infused with the hope of mortals, but you'd think they wouldn't change that radically between classes. I think it was implied somewhere that Gilgamesh got his class because of his ranged skills and not the other way around, I can't source it though.

On the other hand, he's two thirds god, so who says he couldn't shoot swords out of thin air before he became an eirai.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by rastilin

Gilgamesh's power may have more to do with being an eirai than an Archer. I've always assumed that they get their powers after being infused with the hope of mortals, but you'd think they wouldn't change that radically between classes. I think it was implied somewhere that Gilgamesh got his class because of his ranged skills and not the other way around, I can't source it though.

Good luck trying, I'm sure there's that chance, since mine's also speculation with a little example.

On the other hand, he's two thirds god, so who says he couldn't shoot swords out of thin air before he became an eirai.

How about 5th Berserker then? Being 90% god, he still have to move around like a human. But it's funny to imagine Gilgamesh and his enemies starts shooting swords at each other in ancient histories...

[Blade_Lord]

Just wondering, what rank is Assassin Tsubame Gaeshi/Swallow reversal?

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Just wondering, what rank is Assassin Tsubame Gaeshi/Swallow reversal?

None. Its not a Noble Phantasm.

[Blade_Lord]

Mhm okay...then what rank is assassin sword?

Can archer do what Gilgamesh does? I mean like tracing multiple swords without holding them and shoot them at the enemy?

Can Emiya trace anything other than swords? I'm curious because it seems swords were the only thing he was able to successfully trace.

Yes and in the last episode of anime FSN he trace a towel out of thin air.

I was wondering is rin unconscious when shirou slice of Berserker arm?

How does a broken noble phantasm broke? Does it broke like shirou sword after slicing berserker arm or does it go out with a bang?

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Mhm okay...then what rank is assassin sword?

Tsubame Gaeshi is a skill, not a Noble Phantasm. 5th HG war Assassin is a false servant, so as a result, he does not possess a Noble Phantasm. However he is so skilled in sword that this attack poses the threat of a Noble Phatasm. Maximum capture is one.

Can archer do what Gilgamesh does? I mean like tracing multiple swords without holding them and shoot them at the enemy?

No and yes.

Yes and in the last episode of anime FSN he trace a towel out of thin air.

That's because he'd look cool. In the game there's no Illya on the grail.

I was wondering is rin unconscious when shirou slice of Berserker arm?

Not sure, as Shirou didn't say anything about it. I suspect that she was unconscious for a little while, then regained her conscious, as when Shirou slashed Berserker's arm off, he only said 'Tohsaka fell with the arm that was holding her, and the sword that cut through his arm shatter like glass.' There was no description of Tohsaka coughing or making any sound when she fell.

However after Berserker disappeared it was mentioned 'Tohsaka gets up' but not 'wake up' hinting that Tohsaka was not moving because Berserker's fist was still restraining her even after she fell.

How does a broken noble phantasm broke? Does it broke like shirou sword after slicing berserker arm or does it go out with a bang?

It 'shatter like glass'

[rastilin]

No and yes.

In UBW he does so very thoroughly. His skills at shooting swords works exactly like the GoB that Gilgamesh uses. He kills Medea and Gilgamesh with it as well as causing significant damage to the grail itself. This without using the reality marble. The marble just makes it cheaper to do so.

Shirou can do the same but only to mirror attacks from GoB, that is he can't initiate an attack with a rain of swords, but can deflect one.

However it's only a B rank attack while Gilgamesh has it at A rank, which means it's not enough to hurt Berserker.

That's because he'd look cool. In the game there's no Illya on the grail.

He's got a shed filled with miscellaneous stuff that's been pulled from thin air. Unfortunately nothing but the simplest stuff ever comes out right, projection magic can duplicate nearly anything, but swords are the only thing Shirou's really good at. Shirou's skill isn't unique, nearly all mages can do it, but it's perceived as useless so no mage ever bothers training it.

It 'shatter like glass'

Broken phantasms don't shatter, they go BOOM. The sword Shirou used against berserker is a Noble Phanatasm, the "arrow" archer used against berzerker in UBW is a Broken Phantasm and made a massive explosion. The "Fake Spiral Sword" shows up in episode 14 but it's really toned down; in UBW it's NP mode has a massive area effect that literally cuts the sky. In Broken Phantasm mode, it makes a massive ball of fire that can wipe out multiple servants standing close together.

Btw, it's called the "Fake" Spiral Sword because Archer made it, it's based on a Noble Phantasm that he saw once but isn't a correct reproduction. The game's encyclopedia refers to it as "Kaldbolg Mk2".

[Blade_Lord]

In UBW he does so very thoroughly. His skills at shooting swords works exactly like the GoB that Gilgamesh uses. He kills Medea and Gilgamesh with it as well as causing significant damage to the grail itself. This without using the reality marble. The marble just makes it cheaper to do so.

Shirou can do the same but only to mirror attacks from GoB, that is he can't initiate an attack with a rain of swords, but can deflect one.

However it's only a B rank attack while Gilgamesh has it at A rank, which means it's not enough to hurt Berserker.

Can you dumb this down for me...

[rastilin]

Yes, Shirou can too; but none of them hurt Berzerker.

[Blade_Lord]

Can a servant convert their noble phantasm into broken NP without holding them?

[rastilin]

Maybe but I doubt it. Archer needs to touch a phantasm to convert it or at least has never used a Broken Phantasm without touching it first. However it's mostly a moot point because pretty much every servant would rather die than use a Broken Phantasm.

When you use it, your Noble Phantasm explodes, it's GONE, permanently. They probably come back when the servant is summoned in a different war but in the short term, it's gone and the servant won't get it back.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by rastilin

In UBW he does so very thoroughly. His skills at shooting swords works exactly like the GoB that Gilgamesh uses. He kills Medea and Gilgamesh with it as well as causing significant damage to the grail itself. This without using the reality marble. The marble just makes it cheaper to do so.

I don't think reality marble reduces the mana expense when shooting the swords, but for tracing, definitely.

He's got a shed filled with miscellaneous stuff that's been pulled from thin air. Unfortunately nothing but the simplest stuff ever comes out right, projection magic can duplicate nearly anything, but swords are the only thing Shirou's really good at. Shirou's skill isn't unique, nearly all mages can do it, but it's perceived as useless so no mage ever bothers training it.

Is that so? I'm always under the impression that Shirou cannot trace anything properly other than swords as he stated that he failed in every practice in the beginning of the story.

Broken phantasms don't shatter, they go BOOM. The sword Shirou used against berserker is a Noble Phanatasm, the "arrow" archer used against berzerker in UBW is a Broken Phantasm and made a massive explosion. The "Fake Spiral Sword" shows up in episode 14 but it's really toned down; in UBW it's NP mode has a massive area effect that literally cuts the sky. In Broken Phantasm mode, it makes a massive ball of fire that can wipe out multiple servants standing close together.

Ahh, mis-read that. I saw how 'Noble Phantasm break'. Yes they are supposed to explode.

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Can a servant convert their noble phantasm into broken NP without holding them?

Good question...I think not, or else Gilgamesh can simply use his swords from Gate of Babylon as missiles...

[Blade_Lord]

Broken phantasms don't shatter, they go BOOM. The sword Shirou used against berserker is a Noble Phanatasm, the "arrow" archer used against berzerker in UBW is a Broken Phantasm and made a massive explosion. The "Fake Spiral Sword" shows up in episode 14 but it's really toned down; in UBW it's NP mode has a massive area effect that literally cuts the sky. In Broken Phantasm mode, it makes a massive ball of fire that can wipe out multiple servants standing close together.

Why do they toned it down?

[rastilin]

Why do they toned it down?

For the same reason they took out all Archer's good lines, because the Anime didn't have time to do the whole story with the care it deserved. I mean he uses several swords in the battle with Berzerker but in the game the Fake Spiral Sword gets two scenes where it's the only NP triggered, more if you count the other times it just shows up.

EDIT: That and the Broken Phantasm's area of effect is quite possibly larger than the Illiasviel Castle's main hall.

I don't think reality marble reduces the mana expense when shooting the swords, but for tracing, definitely.

Gilgames's shooting attack summons the swords from his vault. Archer's attack traces them in thin air and gives them velocity. His sword-shooting technique is a sub-effect of high level tracing skill.

Is that so? I'm always under the impression that Shirou cannot trace anything properly other than swords as he stated that he failed in every practice in the beginning of the story.

He failed when he was practicing reinforcement with Rin, but he succeeded in tracing plenty of misc stuff. If you play the fate route, after Rin hands you the lamps and you fail to reinforce them, there's an option to tell Rin you've failed. Choosing it, you go to a scene where you overhear Rin complaining about all the stuff he created in the shed, which should be impossible.

Good question...I think not, or else Gilgamesh can simply use his swords from Gate of Babylon as missiles...

Gilgamesh doesn't have as many swords as you might think. He has plenty, but if he did that he'd run out after a few salvos. Plus, it's implied that servants can create Broken Phantasms, but that doesn't necessarily mean ALL servants can do so.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Why do they toned it down?

They didn't in the game, but they did in the anime, which is quite unlucky.

Originally Posted by rastilin

EDIT: That and the Broken Phantasm's area of effect is quite possibly larger than the Illiasviel Castle's main hall.

100% certain. It blew up a whole graveyard in the game...

Gilgames's shooting attack summons the swords from his vault. Archer's attack traces them in thin air and gives them velocity. His sword-shooting technique is a sub-effect of high level tracing skill.

Yeah, but what's that to do with reality marble? Or you mean granting the swords speed is a part of tracing as well?

He failed when he was practicing reinforcement with Rin, but he succeeded in tracing plenty of misc stuff. If you play the fate route, after Rin hands you the lamps and you fail to reinforce them, there's an option to tell Rin you've failed. Choosing it, you go to a scene where you overhear Rin complaining about all the stuff he created in the shed, which should be impossible.

Time for revision...wait, let me finish my studies...

Gilgamesh doesn't have as many swords as you might think. He has plenty, but if he did that he'd run out after a few salvos. Plus, it's implied that servants can create Broken Phantasms, but that doesn't necessarily mean ALL servants can do so.

True Gilgamesh doesn't have too much swords, but thing is he doesn't care about his swords. He once discarded four pretty good swords because it has been dirtied. Now that I think of it, I remember Gilgamesh have used Broken Phantasm in Fate/Zero...

[rastilin]

Yeah, but what's that to do with reality marble? Or you mean granting the swords speed is a part of tracing as well?

To be honest I'm not sure, it wouldn't seem to be the case but Shirou can duplicate the sword attack so it's possible. In either way, tracing just one NP would normally take more mana than most magi have in their entire body at full strength. Compared to that levitating the thing and hurling it forward at a comparatively slow speed constitutes a comparatively minuscule expenditure.

I say comparatively slow because at one point, someone at the Mirror Moon forums calculated that Archer's sniping attack can hit Mach 13.

EDIT: To be specific, from his sniping position roughly 3 miles away from the Fuyuuki bridge he can strike at any person on the bridge in just over one second. This distance being well within his range.

Time for revision...wait, let me finish my studies...

It's possible I'm the one playing too much. I haven't even finished the first volume of the book series, I also heard there's an encyclopedia out written by the original writers, I'd love to get a copy.

[iamandragon]

I say comparatively slow because at one point, someone at the Mirror Moon forums calculated that Archer's sniping attack can hit Mach 13.

Really? I have been thinking on doing calculations on that, but I never gathered enough data to do so. Do you think you can post a link here?

It's possible I'm the one playing too much. I haven't even finished the first volume of the book series, I also heard there's an encyclopedia out written by the original writers, I'd love to get a copy.

It's called Fate/Side Material I guess, but it's not an encyclopedia. Sort of like a datasheet.