(L) Shiki

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Boduar

Natsuno started fire yes/no? Assuming the fire was not completely random I would imagine he would be only logical reason due to his "im not on the humans side" and the look from Ozaki after he fire had just started seemed to indicate doctors suspicion possibly of Natsuno?

Seems as good a bet as any at present, especially considering that it's November (the end of Autumn), so there's no way the fire would have started on its own.

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Fundamentally, I'm afraid I have to join the "disappointed" camp.

Spoiler for 22:

Really, seriously - Seishin lives? The most vile, despicable, hypocritical and disgusting character of the season, never mind the series, drives off with his vamp-in-a-box like this is "Let the Right One In"? That, alas, soils and sullies the entire ending for me. The only thing the scumbag was right about was hating himself - and he lives while so many others die. Even Sunako was resigned to taking her medicine in the end - she knew she had it coming - and he spoils it (and makes us listen to the most revolting speech ever). If only Ookawa had done less talking and more staking.

It's really a shame that this series, which was truly great, had to resort to cheap horror film cliche in the end. The lone vampire escapes - will she start the cycle all over again? Mind you, there were a few good things about the end - Megumi's demise was fully as brutal and terrifying as she deserved. I rather liked the way Natsuno wrapped things up with Tatsumi - that had a poetic elegance to it. And it was good to see Akira and Kaori made it, no doubt saved by Natsuno. But saying the ending was fine other than Seishin and Sunako is like saying London was fine in 1666 without the fire.

I must say, I found the "epilogue" very confusing. Were those scenes from the DVD only eps? Was that supposed to be a self-contained epilogue by itself?

You talk as if an ending like "human good, vampire bad; human win, vampire eliminated" isn't cheap and cliche

It ends as I expected: heavy damage to both sides, and some of both sides survive.

[Kanon]

That was an abrupt ending. Pretty disappointing. Shiki had some serious pacing problems in my opinion. The show started out very slow (which I didn't mind since it built up a fantastic atmosphere), then near the end they kicked the plot into high gear and a lot of characters were left behind (Nao, puppet loli, Masao, Akira, etc... not to mention all the billions of "one shot" characters introduced). Hopefully, the bonus episodes will fix that up a bit. At any rate, it remains a great series despite the rushed and disappointing ending. I just think it could have been even better.

Megumi's death was so pointlessly brutal and cruel that it was hilarious. I'm not sure what they were going for here: did they try to make us feel pity for her? Or did they try to satisfy us? Either way, it didn't work with me. It was too exaggerated for me to take it seriously.

Natsuno's death was pretty cool. I'm in agreement that he's the one who started the fire. As he said, he wasn't on anybody's side. He hated both the shiki and the village equally. Oh, and about whose blood he drank, I simply assumed it was Seichirou's.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Spoiler for last episode:

3. OOOOOOOOKAWA-SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN! I loved his little speech towards that brat. He is so right. If he really killed her and made it out alive, it would have been perfect. But he got killed! That monster of a man... got... killed?!

Yes, his final speech was great. He was absolutely right. Sunako deserves no sympathy, nor pity. I hate how the anime (Seishin in particular) tried to portray her as a victim. Yes, she used to be a victim... centuries ago. However, she became a victimizer of her own free will at some point. She's now a little murderess, no better than the guy who originally turned her into a vampire.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Long musings on the last episode and the series:

Spoiler for Final Hunt:

In brief, reflection doesn't soften my view about the ending. Seishin, ack... It's only too bad he didn't succeed in killing himself. His speech to Sunako in the church after killing Ookawa - "No one to protect you", etc. - was really almost vomit-inducing. Sunako had an army of her own victims to protect her - a legion of demons to clothe, protect, and comfort her - to feed her blood from her victims and practically swaddle her. Even Sunako was ready to take her medicine in the end - she knew full well she deserved to die. And Seishin took that away from us, took that poetic justice and pissed all over it and did to the ending what Natsuno did to Tatsumi - dragged it into a festering, stinking pit and blew it up. The ending was cliched, and really, Shiki deserved better than that - and it deserved a commitment from the story itself, a side chosen - rather, we were given an ambiguous "they were all bad so let's call it even" kind of ending, a get-out-of-jail-free card for both Seishin and the writing staff. Dammit, there was no moral equality here - as Natsuno himself said, the Shiki started it. For the humans, it was a crime of passion. For the Shiki - and especially Sunako - pre-mediated mass murder.

With all that, though, an ending is only one episode of a series (even if it's the most important one) and even for great series, they're really hard to pull off. And this is no doubt a great series, and I'm not going to abandon it because of that. It was a masterpiece on many levels and one of the very best shows of 2010.

I couldn't agree more. Count me in on the Seishin hate camp. The story may not have been about winning or losing... but Seishin came out as the ultimate winner. His wish for the village to die out was granted, he gained a cute loli, and to top it all, he became a superhuman. What did Toshio and the other villagers gain? Nothing. In fact, they lost what was the most important to them: their family and their home.

Originally Posted by Tjfarmer

I believe the little scenes during the ED were previews for 20.5 and 21.5.

I feel like what is gonna happen in those episodes is that Kaori, Akira, Natsuno's father, and that girl from the first episode are gonna meet a little while after the events of 22, and they're gonna talk about stuff that was cut from the anime (Akira being saved, Kaori finishing up her fight, and there was some stuff cut about the girl from the first episode that was in a later chapter I believe, from when her mom rose as a Shiki.)

Hmm, I doubt it. If it were the case, they wouldn't have numbered those episodes "20.5" and "21.5". Besides, I don't think they'd want to talk about such a horrible experience. What we saw in the ED was just a small epilogue, which they might extend in the DVD release.

By the way, what happened to the mother of the red haired hottie? Was she among the pile of corpses at the end? & wow, it was weird to see Papa Yuuki looking so peaceful and sane.

[wandering-dreamer]

Originally Posted by Boduar

Natsuno started fire yes/no? Assuming the fire was not completely random I would imagine he would be only logical reason due to his "im not on the humans side" and the look from Ozaki after he fire had just started seemed to indicate doctors suspicion possibly of Natsuno?

That's what I thought, he was there at the time and I thought when Tatsumi was telling him he'd done enough damage he gestured to include the fire in his statement. Plus, Natsuno really hated that village for keeping him stuck there and basically letting him die without anyone caring, I'm pretty sure he was happy to see it burn.
Oh, and I was rereading the manga and for a few chapters there was a warning to be careful about wildfires towards the beginning of each chapter, guess that was another little detail that the anime had to cut out.

[PzIVf3]

Originally Posted by Boduar

Natsuno started fire yes/no? Assuming the fire was not completely random I would imagine he would be only logical reason due to his "im not on the humans side" and the look from Ozaki after he fire had just started seemed to indicate doctors suspicion possibly of Natsuno?

Yes thats him he carry a lighter on his pocket. He must have got pissed of how the human did to his best friend.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Boduar

Natsuno started fire yes/no?

Actually, from the novel spoilers I searched out...

Spoiler for novel:

It seems Motoko-san is the one that started burning up everything, out of her... hysteric delusions.
By the way, she gets killed right after by Ebuchi or whatever the Kanemasa's doctor was.

Of course, this is the novel though, so the anime might be different. Not that it explained it either though.

[FlareKnight]

Yeah have to say I was disappointed in the ending. I mean Seishin living pretty much just kills what would have made it a good ending. At least Sunako in the end was going to take a stand and accept the end. But oh hilarity that Seishin of all people stops someone from ending their life. Of course Sunako gets out and with Seishin in that state she could easily just start the whole thing up again and end who knows how many more lives.

Pretty dramatic effort by Natsuno to settle things with Tatsumi. Of course unable to beat him in strength even with the damage that Tatsumi took during his escape. It just shows the durability of werewolves to pull something like that out. You'd almost wonder if Natsuno had enough explosives for the kill. Probably got Tatsumi, but with his durability and the ability to back up a little in that hole...maybe.

Village ends up going down anyways. Though I suppose a fire is a more acceptable way than getting massacred by vampires.

Megumi's death was pretty dramatic. A little overboard probably with getting smashed around and then her arm crushed. Not a werewolf after all . Well after all she did, deserved her end. Sure she wanted out of the village, but the selfish attacks on Kaori's family was completely in the extreme.

On that note do wonder if Kaori will ever recover mentally from this situation. Her mind has been thrown around and really messed up.

Now I think the old guy kind of had his death coming. He killed enough victims of hypnosis and was just on a rampage. Still probably wouldn't have hurt to let him finish Sunako off.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by TheForsaken

You talk as if an ending like "human good, vampire bad; human win, vampire eliminated" isn't cheap and cliche

It ends as I expected: heavy damage to both sides, and some of both sides survive.

Wow - if that isn't a total bastardization of the critical view of the ending and a straw man, I've never seen one. Read the posts again and respond to what they're actually saying next time...

[fertygo]

I'm agree the fact Sunako and Seishin's survive is not satisfying, but its still nice conclusion IMO.

Its supposed to being human disaster afterall but its ended as human side's the winning side despite their major damage.

Just little disappointed why the docs feel little regretful to his act n think maybe that's just a waste.

But for overall, this show is fantastic.

[Dop]

While it might have been better to see Sunako and Seishin die in the fire, the brief glimpse we see is, I think, something akin to all those old Hollywood movies which go "THE END............?"
It's a hanging thread - opens the possibility for a sequel, but personally I'd be just as happy for there never to be one, as I don't really see how they could top this.

One thing that hasn't been touched on is the aftermath. They tried to stop the fire to keep outside forces out of town. As the fire spread to torch the area, while it would have destroyed a lot of evidence, the mass graves are bound to be discovered, and an investigation arise. What happens to the survivors, it's not like they're going back to their old normal life any time.

[Neat Hedgehog]

Seriously, by the end of the series, am I still the only one who really didn't think Megumi was really that bad? Everybody acts like she did such terrible things, when I really don't see anything out of line for a teenager who suddenly gets to (in their way of thinking) "rise above" death. I mean really, odds are any teen who gets their hands on something like that would go totally off their rocker, at least for a while. I thought she was actually pretty restrained, all things considered.

Thought it was pretty lame of Natsuno to blow himself up like that. Given the first half of the series, I really hoped he'd have more guts than to take such a pathetic way out of the whole thing.

As for the whole "shiki-in-a-box" gag at the end, all I can say is that it was pretty much exactly what I figured would happen. Seemed a little cliche and nearly out of character for Sunako to just decide to give up and die. That would have been the stupidest ending ever. In case you can't tell, I hate suicide, and I would have felt very cheated if I had just spent an entire season watching what I falsely assumed was an interesting character, only to have her turn out to be a total loser and let herself die. If she had just been killed, that would have been ok, though. Can't say I'd prefer either her living or dying, really, since both are fair.

Really, I thought it was a pretty fair ending (as in, everybody got what they deserved), with neither side really able to celebrate "flawless victory." Really, it's about the only way it could have ended up. So for once, the ending of a series did not utterly disappoint me. There aren't a lot of series like that which have been made in the last few years, if you ask me.

[Azule]

Originally Posted by Goty

Care to share the source, please? Unless you got the disc itself, of course.

Seconding @_@

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

On that note do wonder if Kaori will ever recover mentally from this situation. Her mind has been thrown around and really messed up.

From the "Few days later" thing, she seems fine enough to go to school at least.
And 1000 times better off then in the end of the novel, supposedly.

[Kaoru Chujo]

It's interesting what different points of view we have, despite all having enjoyed this show to the end. The sign of a well-written story, as Guardian Enzo says in his blog post.

I ended up liking the Shiki more than the humans, but that doesn't mean I'm talking about "moral equivalence." The shiki -- particularly the core group -- did all the evil until the humans started losing it and killing a few suspected collaborators. Both groups did bad things, but the shiki did a lot more of them.

But I don't care about the morality. This is not some moralistic little anime for kids; this is actually a show with some depth to it. Moral judgment and artistic judgment are not the same thing. Not that some simple things don't affect our enjoyment: I do have prejudices in favor of both Yuuki Aoi and priests, and against violent and self-righteous middle-aged men, lol.

Personally, I find Seishin fascinating and deep. The difficulty of really grasping the nature and depth of his pain makes him even more fascinating. It really was as if he and Sunako were inhabiting a strange other world, drawn together by their personal histories and their intellects.

Pacing problems? Not in my opinion. You slowly wind up the spring, then you let all that energy free and it rushes toward the conclusion. Like a Greek tragedy, as Guardian Enzo wrote in his blog. If this were a long novel, we could tie up every character's past and future, but that is neither possible nor necessary here. The little puppet-mistress, for example, has played her role and we don't need to know how and when she was turned or how she died.

But despite many differences of opinion with Guardian Enzo and others (not least the fact that I am still unable to see Cross Game as anything other than shallow and slow -- I'll keep trying) I completely agree with him on his choices as the top two shows of the year: House of Five Leaves and Shiki.

[Kismet-chan]

I'm glad I didn't watch the last episode, and now I probably won't. From everyone's replies, it sounds utterly craptastic. I guess Shiki is just one of those series that starts out pretty interesting enough, then just does a nosedive as it gets closer and closer to the end, eventually crashing altogether. Sheesh.

[maplehurry]

To those complaining about Sunako not dying when she deserved to... maybe she will live to repent her sin !

Maybe she will only bite big bad criminals like a batman !

[achirist]

I love Seishin; I think he is absolutely beautiful; it is toshio who should have died, in my opinion. And Seishin is right; the shiki are sacred beings, and Sunako should be protected and live on; I think their conversations were one of the best things about this series.

[fertygo]

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

I'm glad I didn't watch the last episode, and now I probably won't. From everyone's replies, it sounds utterly craptastic. I guess Shiki is just one of those series that starts out pretty interesting enough, then just does a nosedive as it gets closer and closer to the end, eventually crashing altogether. Sheesh.

It was good for me, some people may not satisfied to how the fate/plot for some chara ended but its still nice conclusion to wrap the story.

I'm much rather Sunako n Seishin die for example, but its still doesn't change my opinion about the stories overall, if I does its will like I'm saying the original Evangelion sucks because Shinji's such a wuss.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Dop

It's a hanging thread - opens the possibility for a sequel, but personally I'd be just as happy for there never to be one, as I don't really see how they could top this.

One way to top a small village in the middle of nowhere is to start a vampire empire in a large metropolis. A lot more people die there, and it is not as easy to find out.

Originally Posted by Neat Hedgehog

Seriously, by the end of the series, am I still the only one who really didn't think Megumi was really that bad? Everybody acts like she did such terrible things, when I really don't see anything out of line for a teenager who suddenly gets to (in their way of thinking) "rise above" death. I mean really, odds are any teen who gets their hands on something like that would go totally off their rocker, at least for a while. I thought she was actually pretty restrained, all things considered.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the issue with Megumi is pre-meditated murder. She hated Kaori for no good reason, plotted to murder Kaori's family, leaving the siblings as ophans. The siblings will be scarred the rest of their lives and forced to fend for themselves.

Putting it another way, would you sympathize with someone that murdered your family while you were in the mid teens because they felt you were annoying, and you deserved to have horrible things happen to you, like be traumatized with losing your family and living out in the streets plus the constant fear of that person attacking you every second?

Originally Posted by maplehurry

To those complaining about Sunako not dying when she deserved to... maybe she will live to repent her sin !

Maybe she will only bite big bad criminals like a batman !

Awesome because now, she can have a bunch of criminal minions instead that would not hesitate to kill her at any second.

[fukarming]

Am I the only one that is bothered by the cheap "Senshin become werewolf" plot? I don't mind Senshin and Sunako surviving, but Senshin just turned to a werewolf and save the day despite the low odds are what bothering me. It is like those 70s show where when all hopes of the main characters are lost, some super heroes (or comrades who are supposed to be dead) came out of nowhere and save the day.

I rewatched Senshin's speech 3 times, and the way I understand it, is that if you are born "unblessed" (He is referring to Shiki, but in real life that would mean you either born with a birth defect or you born in a dump with abusive alcoholic father and crack addicting mother...etc), it is OK for you to ignore the moral boundaries and do your best to survive? Since god(or other humans) is not around you when you need them, it is OK to throw away the rules and boundaries set by god or other humans? Am I understanding that wrong or is that the message Senshin trying to bring?

But then I think the current ending is still better than the Shiki completely wipe out and human live happily ever after ending many here seems to want. As such ending would imply the human is "right" and Shiki is "wrong".

I think the best ending would be Shiki got completely wipe out, but the police come and discover the body. The police obviously won't believe the Shiki story and arrest Toshio and all villagers for performing monstrous cult ritual (the villagers told the outsider they are performing some village ritual) and sentenced them to death or life imprisonment.