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View Poll Results: Schwarzesmarken - Episode 9 Rating
Perfect 10 5 33.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 3 20.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 2 13.33%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 20.00%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 6.67%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 6.67%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2016-03-07, 12:29   Link #21
MgMaster
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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
Other characters like Katia will probably go on to achieve something for the greater good. But to have someone who never had a chance to start losing it - that really does cause such a memorable impact, even if it was in such a dark way. It is much harder to make a character that ends up not being the likeable one but the despised one to cause such a reaction with an effect that will remain long after the show is finished.


I find Katia to be one of the most uninteresting characters of the show. The fact that she appears like one of the most privileged characters whom everyone wants to protect because she's the daughter of some war hero makes words carry less weight than say, if they came from others like say, Iris, who despite sharing the same views, inspires some well-earned respect. Come to think of it, Katia didn't really do much besides just being there did she... And of course, such character had to be a moeblob too, go figure

It's interesting to think how opposite Lise & Iris are - the two very important women in Theodor's life right now. One prioritizes the country(or more like the people of the country) over her family, the other doesn't give a damn about the country or anything else besides her sole remaining family member. I kinda wish we got to see the two have a casual chat earlier and a fiery confrontation later :P

Last edited by MgMaster; 2016-03-07 at 12:45.
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Old 2016-03-07, 14:00   Link #22
Nozomu Itoshiki
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Originally Posted by MgMaster View Post
It's interesting to think how opposite Lise & Iris are - the two very important women in Theodor's life right now. One prioritizes the country(or more like the people of the country) over her family, the other doesn't give a damn about the country or anything else besides her sole remaining family member. I kinda wish we got to see the two have a casual chat earlier and a fiery confrontation later :P
Spoiler for spoiler:


Now regarding to kakurin-san post, what you get wrong is the motivations of Lise to do that so I suggest you to read my previous post where I quote you and if you keep the doubts about it, read the chinese translations.
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Old 2016-03-07, 14:17   Link #23
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Originally Posted by MgMaster View Post
I find Katia to be one of the most uninteresting characters of the show. The fact that she appears like one of the most privileged characters whom everyone wants to protect because she's the daughter of some war hero makes words carry less weight than say, if they came from others like say, Iris, who despite sharing the same views, inspires some well-earned respect. Come to think of it, Katia didn't really do much besides just being there did she... And of course, such character had to be a moeblob too, go figure
Agreed. I tend to think of Katia as the substitute for Lise pre-capture since 'protecting' Katia is about the one thing he can do along with follow Irisdina. Katia's redeeming feature is her defiant spirit - Theodor being utterly negative towards her in the early episodes and didn't deter Katia - she pretty much stood her ground and refused to relent. Overall, yes - Katia hasn't achieved/shown much in terms of achievements thus far. But she might be able to rise to the occassion in the episodes to come. But even then, she would still have less impact/be less memorable than Lise in terms of the overall saga.

Quote:
It's interesting to think how opposite Lise & Iris are - the two very important women in Theodor's life right now. One prioritizes the country (or more like the people of the country) over her family, the other doesn't give a damn about the country or anything else besides her sole remaining family member. I kinda wish we got to see the two have a casual chat earlier and a fiery confrontation later :P
Essentially both were forced to cave in to the Stasi at some point. Essentially both did something unforgivable. But fate gave Irisdina the chance to strike back at them - one wonders why Axmann let her go. Lise never had a chance - no way in hell Axmann would ever let her free. Irisdina killed her brother (supposedly - we never actually saw the act so I'm still not 100% certain) for the sake of having a chance to save Germany. Lise would never allow her brother to be killed and can't believe in a unified Germany given what the East Germans did to her. Irisdina eventually rallied her troops despite her stained past. For Lise to be able to reach Theodor once more, she had become too stained and was a shell of her former self.

Indeed the two are opposites. One was able to forsake familial bonds to go for something more important. The other had theirs exploited and clung to it as their sole remnant of sanity amidst despair. The thing that always bugs me is whether Axmann had the ability to follow through on his threat of killing Theodor. If so, it adds more weight to the fact that Theodor is still alive, able to aid Irisdina and Katia while Lise was made to pay for it.
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Old 2016-03-07, 15:13   Link #24
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You know i really liked Pham and i should have known better than to like anyone in the Muv-luv universe cause they are going to end up dead in a horrible way But i liked her even in the hellish conditions they were forced to see everyday and all the racist crap she had to endure she was still herself even after being tortured she stayed strong, she tried to stop siblings from fighting and look what happens. So yeah im pretty pissed although i saw it coming and she wont be the last.

Theo wont let this go so we should just say goodbye to Lise right now. In the end if Axmann lives there is just no justice after he has destroyed so many lives. If anyone has any info on him from the LN could you please let me know his fate at the end
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Old 2016-03-07, 16:13   Link #25
Marvelous Cnidarian
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Spoiler for spoiler:
Axmann is responsible for the majority of the suffering in Schwarzesmarken. He took two of the sweetest girls in the whole series and turned them into monsters.
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Old 2016-03-07, 16:24   Link #26
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Originally Posted by Nozomu Itoshiki View Post
Now regarding to kakurin-san post, what you get wrong is the motivations of Lise to do that so I suggest you to read my previous post where I quote you and if you keep the doubts about it, read the chinese translations.
You are still misinterpreting my post. I've never said that it was her motivation. I said she was made to think that what she did was to help her brother in some way. Because frankly it's the only way that she could stay halfway alive and sane for so long going through that - by thinking she's doing that so she can see her brother again at some point.
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Old 2016-03-07, 16:48   Link #27
Nozomu Itoshiki
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Originally Posted by Marvelous Cnidarian View Post
Axmann is responsible for the majority of the suffering in Schwarzesmarken. He took two of the sweetest girls in the whole series and turned them into monsters.
Spoiler for spoiler:
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Old 2016-03-08, 03:06   Link #28
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Theo wont let this go so we should just say goodbye to Lise right now. In the end if Axmann lives there is just no justice after he has destroyed so many lives. If anyone has any info on him from the LN could you please let me know his fate at the end
Sent you a PM about that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvelous Cnidarian View Post
Axmann is responsible for the majority of the suffering in Schwarzesmarken. He took two of the sweetest girls in the whole series and turned them into monsters.
Damn right....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakurin-san View Post
You are still misinterpreting my post. I've never said that it was her motivation. I said she was made to think that what she did was to help her brother in some way. Because frankly it's the only way that she could stay halfway alive and sane for so long going through that - by thinking she's doing that so she can see her brother again at some point.
I think that would have been the core of her survival instincts and the only thing allowing her to have any fragments of sanity left, yes.


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Spoiler for spoiler:
Oh yeah.....definitely....100% with you on both of those points.


I took another look at Episode 9 overnight and....I noticed something....'different'. Something big that I wonder how I didn't notice the first time....

I can't say any more here because that would break thread/forum rules. If anyone wants to discuss this via PM, please do. Because something has been bugging me ever since I noticed this and I now have a theory as to what it means.

Again, reply to this only via PM, not here.
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Last edited by Last Sinner; 2016-03-08 at 03:38.
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Old 2016-03-08, 05:57   Link #29
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Sent you a PM about that.
You can send me also by PM on this information Axmann?


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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
I took another look at Episode 9 overnight and....I noticed something....'different'. Something big that I wonder how I didn't notice the first time....

I can't say any more here because that would break thread/forum rules. If anyone wants to discuss this via PM, please do. Because something has been bugging me ever since I noticed this and I now have a theory as to what it means.

Again, reply to this only via PM, not here.
About this difference that you saw in episode 9 , could you tell me a PM that was?
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Old 2016-03-08, 06:14   Link #30
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You can send me also by PM on this information Axmann?

About this difference that you saw in episode 9 , could you tell me a PM that was?
Sent.

For anyone else that wants to discuss this, please let me know to what degree you want to discuss things. For the record, I intend to discuss the events relevant to one incident in Episode 9 and assume you don't want me to reveal anything else if you don't specify.
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Old 2016-03-08, 15:44   Link #31
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So, we now have the third coup in maybe a week? Instable doesn't come close to describe the situation right now.

Just earlier this episode I thought that Pham was to nice to survive this show. Looks like I was right with that one

You and I may hate Axman as much as we want but nobody can deny he has guts, facing up at that big fat gun, controlled by someone he tortured. And he also is pretty hard-working, having tortured what seems like about 30% of all characters.

I agree with what's been said above, Lise is the character that will be remembered.

@Last Sinner I am always interested in disussing something interesting, spoil
whatever you want if you think it is relevant to your point.
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Old 2016-03-08, 18:34   Link #32
MgMaster
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You and I may hate Axman as much as we want but nobody can deny he has guts, facing up at that big fat gun, controlled by someone he tortured. And he also is pretty hard-working, having tortured what seems like about 30% of all characters.
The guy make's a pretty good villain, I'll give him that. He remind's me of Scythe Master from Requiem for the Phantom.

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Sent.

For anyone else that wants to discuss this, please let me know to what degree you want to discuss things. For the record, I intend to discuss the events relevant to one incident in Episode 9 and assume you don't want me to reveal anything else if you don't specify.
Throw me a PM too pls. Just tell me you thought was different in ep 9 compared to what was apparently supposed to happen. I've no knowledge of the VN or LN btw.
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Old 2016-03-08, 19:02   Link #33
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I agree with what's been said above, Lise is the character that will be remembered.
Definitely. But I'll also remember Irisdina. Lise has the most impact but Irisdina is the only one with the capability to save the people of Germany through what she has done.

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The guy make's a pretty good villain, I'll give him that.
There are several places already calling Axmann a lock-in for Bastard of the Year. The guy you just love to hate without inhibition and makes you feel even more for the characters he has put through hell.
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Old 2016-03-08, 20:22   Link #34
Nozomu Itoshiki
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Definitely. But I'll also remember Irisdina. Lise has the most impact but Irisdina is the only one with the capability to save the people of Germany through what she has done.



There are several places already calling Axmann a lock-in for Bastard of the Year. The guy you just love to hate without inhibition and makes you feel even more for the characters he has put through hell.
I agree about Lise, specially after the anime treatment (she didn't have THAT huge impact on the VN and LN, at least not like Iris or beato) but Irisdina's treatment wasn't that good in the adaptation considering how important she is for characters like Theo, Beatrix, Axmann and the rest, even more, she changed the way how some people think in the LN and there you have Theo as the very best example (not going to spoil why but the ones who knows what happens between Theo/lise/beatrix can get the idea).

As for Axmann, the adaptation did a good job showing his true personality and impact in the story. He's not only a bastard, Axmann is the one who carry the dark side of this story along with Beatrix while Theo, Lise or even Iris can just be considered no more than twisted characters trying to be edgy.
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Old 2016-03-08, 21:06   Link #35
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I agree about Lise, specially after the anime treatment (she didn't have THAT huge impact on the VN and LN, at least not like Iris or beato) but Irisdina's treatment wasn't that good in the adaptation considering how important she is for characters like Theo, Beatrix, Axmann and the rest, even more, she changed the way how some people think in the LN and there you have Theo as the very best example (not going to spoil why but the ones who knows what happens between Theo/lise/beatrix can get the idea).
Oh, I read up on the bits and pieces I've found...I'm somewhat aware....The LN had the time and luxury to flesh things out like that. There simply isn't enough time in 12 episodes to include that as well. Pity, but I think Watanabe has overall chosen well on what to adapt. I hope he finds time in the remaining episodes to briefly show things like that in a flashback sense to help bridge the gap.

Pham's death, while tragic and shocking, didn't have the impact it should have for people seeing the material for the first time because any out-of-battle parts that showed Pham's moments with the others never made it to the anime. Side characters aren't going to get much of a showing in the anime - a consequence of giving the core characters + events enough time.

I don't think Irisdina's importance is lost on people and that she is the leader that makes things work. But in terms of explaining the history between certain characters, then I certainly agree that there will be things lost in the conversion.

I kind of see it like the way Watanabe adapted Rumbling Hearts/Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien. He understood that certain details might be list by how much he cut, particularly of the pre ep2 ending material. But he understood that it was the post ep2 material that people watching the anime as their first experience of that title would be most invested in. That is the hook. Certainly some of Uchida's trademarks (particularly the comedic elements) probably fit in with the original version, but I doubt they would have been appropriate in the anime version. It's the tradeoff of doing an adaptation when your episode count isn't flexible.

Quote:
As for Axmann, the adaptation did a good job showing his true personality and impact in the story. He's not only a bastard, Axmann is the one who carry the dark side of this story along with Beatrix while Theo, Lise or even Iris can just be considered no more than twisted characters trying to be edgy.
Lise yes, Irisdina somewhat. Theodor....I've never seen him like that. I've always seen him as the one that seemed somewhat aimless and lacked true motivation. Aside from him following in the footsteps of Irisdina and Katia, I don't see anything that admirable or defining about him.
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Old 2016-03-09, 04:07   Link #36
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Wow - which site inspired you to do that clickbait, gram? Not biting.
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Old 2016-03-09, 04:16   Link #37
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Nooo No not Pham-neechan, why'd they have to axe her, man.....(sorry, forgive the poorly placed pun )

I know this series, I should have been prepared when they didn't let me meet Inghild back in episode 1, but to kill of Pham-neechan... I really liked her hair accessories, and she surely was oneesan like.... I shall miss you, girl wearing a tanktop on a snowy winter day....

Between this and Gundam Orphans, I think I've seen one too many deaths this season. I think I'll go watch some of the lighter stuff this season, get my mind off this
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Old 2016-03-09, 08:06   Link #38
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Nooo No not Pham-neechan, why'd they have to axe her, man.....(sorry, forgive the poorly placed pun )

I know this series, I should have been prepared when they didn't let me meet Inghild back in episode 1, but to kill of Pham-neechan... I really liked her hair accessories, and she surely was oneesan like.... I shall miss you, girl wearing a tanktop on a snowy winter day....

Between this and Gundam Orphans, I think I've seen one too many deaths this season. I think I'll go watch some of the lighter stuff this season, get my mind off this
Fair enough. But in a series involving war, death of characters you care about is inevitable. If it hurts, it's because the series and the characters in it meant something to you. If they achieved something with their lives which leads to an outcome that saves the German people, their lives will have been more than worth it and their sacrifices won't be forgotten.
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Old 2016-03-09, 08:24   Link #39
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Fair enough. But in a series involving war, death of characters you care about is inevitable. If it hurts, it's because the series and the characters in it meant something to you. If they achieved something with their lives which leads to an outcome that saves the German people, their lives will have been more than worth it and their sacrifices won't be forgotten.
Oh, this one hits home. And I mean it literally, I was born in West Germany and this series is very much peaking my interest to the max. I remember visiting Berlin not long after the wall fell, and some parts of the city still looked like it was still rebuilding.

And I've been through Muv Luv Total Eclipse, man that first episode made me swallow my gut and I still can't bring myself to watch the bluray versions

I tell you one thing though, I honestly feel like there's no saving Lise. She needs a warriors death, if anything. I guess that's one reason to keep me watching; to see what her fate will be. Such a terrible thing that happened to her....
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Old 2016-03-09, 09:20   Link #40
Nozomu Itoshiki
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Oh, this one hits home. And I mean it literally, I was born in West Germany and this series is very much peaking my interest to the max. I remember visiting Berlin not long after the wall fell, and some parts of the city still looked like it was still rebuilding.

And I've been through Muv Luv Total Eclipse, man that first episode made me swallow my gut and I still can't bring myself to watch the bluray versions

I tell you one thing though, I honestly feel like there's no saving Lise. She needs a warriors death, if anything. I guess that's one reason to keep me watching; to see what her fate will be. Such a terrible thing that happened to her....
Heh... she deserve it and well, just don't have huge expectations or you will fall to the ground really hard.
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