Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Kikoto

I miss Nanoha series being an atypical magical girl show

Force is a magical girl series with a male protagonist. Don't get more atypical than that.

Originally Posted by Kikoto

so the boy wonder will take it from now.

Uh, if you haven't noticed Thoma's track record hasn't been very stellar. It'd be one thing if Thoma was shown to be super skilled and better than everyone in every single way. That would be a problem. As it stands he's far from the "solves everything by himself always" stage.

Either way, as attached as most of us are to the old cast, sometimes you have to accept that their time in the spotlight is over and they need to move on.

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

but i'll miss the times when various characters managed to pull off awesome stuff instead or relying in one/two people to do all the job.

... There was a time like that?

[Justin_Brett]

Either way, as attached as most of us are to the old cast, sometimes you have to accept that their time in the spotlight is over and they need to move on.

A shame the writers don't share your sentiments. They wouldn't be in the story at all if that were the case; the passing the torch thing already happened. So of course people will expect them to do something here, or they wouldn't be a part of the plot.

[00-Raiser]

Not necessarily. Look at Zeta Gundam: Amuro and Char were present, they did things, but Kamille was the ultimate focus.

Nanoha and co are present, they do do things, but Thoma is the ultimate focus.

From the complaints I've seen people want the old cast to come in and steam roll everything in their way. I remember another show where the creators gave into demands like that: it's called Gundam SEED Destiny.

[Justin_Brett]

Yeah, but in Zeta Gundam Amuro only appeared in a few episodes, working in different places than Kamille. He wasn't on the Argama personally training him or anything, which gave him some space of his own. And Char was a pretty different character from when we last saw him, so it continued his own story by having him be the secondary lead.

And I dunno, there's a difference between wanting heroes that win without any effort at all (that pretty much ruined Star Driver's drama), and heroes that, uh, win.

[ranran]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Not necessarily. Look at Zeta Gundam: Amuro and Char were present, they did things, but Kamille was the ultimate focus.

Nanoha and co are present, they do do things, but Thoma is the ultimate focus.

From the complaints I've seen people want the old cast to come in and steam roll everything in their way. I remember another show where the creators gave into demands like that: it's called Gundam SEED Destiny.

But I think the reason why most people complain is because of the naming. It's NANOHA Force and from that they'll expect something tame like before with Nanoha as the main character, and instead is met with a war manga with a whole bunch of new charas. Maybe if they name it 'Mahou Senki Touma Force, by the creator of Nanoha' or something, the people won't be as mad

[Justin_Brett]

Well to be fair, lots of series do that. They kept calling Dragon Ball that even after the search for them only became important as a reset button, for example.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Yeah, but in Zeta Gundam Amuro only appeared in a few episodes, working in different places than Kamille. He wasn't on the Argama personally training him or anything, which gave him some space of his own. And Char was a pretty different character from when we last saw him, so it continued his own story by having him be the secondary lead.

And I dunno, there's a difference between wanting heroes that win without any effort at all (that pretty much ruined Star Driver's drama), and heroes that, uh, win.

Char had room to grow. We've established that the old Nanoha cast do not. They're like Irm or the Octo Squad in SRW: they're just there to beef up the number of available units.

I'm sure they'll win in the end, but right now they're fighting new opponents using a weapon they don't have much experience with. They have to use untested equipment while their foes use weapons they are intimately familiar with. It's going to take awhile for the heros to reach a level where they can reliably fight.

[Justin_Brett]

Char had room to grow. We've established that the old Nanoha cast do not. They're like Irm or the Octo Squad in SRW: they're just there to beef up the number of available units.

Yeah, and that's a solution to a problem that was only invented so they could be here to solve it. Don't put them in the story if you don't want people to expect more from them than that.

I'm sure they'll win in the end, but right now they're fighting new opponents using a weapon they don't have much experience with. They have to use untested equipment while their foes use weapons they are intimately familiar with. It's going to take awhile for the heros to reach a level where they can reliably fight.

Which basically means the gap between them is based on something the heroes can do nothing about. They're not scientists, so all they can do is wait until people who are give them weapons that will actually work out in battle. Getting used to them won't solve them being inherently flawed. When they get around to beating the Huckebein using them, if they do, the simple ability to hurt the villains won't have come from any accomplishment of their own. It's kind of a lame conflict to be such a big part of the plot.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

And I dunno, there's a difference between wanting heroes that win without any effort at all (that pretty much ruined Star Driver's drama), and heroes that, uh, win.

Yup, it's specially jarring to see heroes being beaten without any better explanation that "the villains are teeerrible".

But apparently i'm the only person in the world who finds the triumphant return of the old cast in Gundan Seed: DESTINY satisfyng xD! .....what can i say? i like seeing cool heroes being awesome xD!

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Yeah, and that's a solution to a problem that was only invented so they could be here to solve it. Don't put them in the story if you don't want people to expect more from them than that.

Truer words has never been spoken. Having the old cast present just to fill numbers is lame beyond belief(and one of the reasons i find the SRW anime series incredibly boring). You shouldn't recast good characters if you don't plan on doing significant stuff with those.

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Which basically means the gap between them is based on something the heroes can do nothing about. They're not scientists, so all they can do is wait until people who are give them weapons that will actually work out in battle. Getting used to them won't solve them being inherently flawed. When they get around to beating the Huckebein using them, if they do, the simple ability to hurt the villains won't have come from any accomplishment of their own. It's kind of a lame conflict to be such a big part of the plot.

One of my initial complaints about the AEC equipement. Me and some people argued about Cypha cheating in her fight with Signum due to the virus and her reactor ....but if Signum defeats her using an AEC-equipement she'll be essentially cheating too since she won't win by her own means but with external help instead. Which feel a bit OOC for her.

The reliableness of the AEC-Equipement is very doubtfull by this point since it already passed over two months and very real battle test and the Equipements keep failing miserably on the battle field as demonstrated by the Grendel Family.

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by ranran

But I think the reason why most people complain is because of the naming. It's NANOHA Force and from that they'll expect something tame like before with Nanoha as the main character, and instead is met with a war manga with a whole bunch of new charas. Maybe if they name it 'Mahou Senki Touma Force, by the creator of Nanoha' or something, the people won't be as mad

And that's how Nanoha Force got outsold... XD I'm kidding xD (I haven't seen a male contestant in Vivid yet...)

[Justin_Brett]

Well with the Super Robot Wars anime, those people were all in the game, and it's an adaptation, so they have to be there too. If anyone got marginalized (that wasn't Ibis), it was because the School Subplot got twice the screentime as everything else for some reason, even though it's the same thing over and over.

[bhl88]

I guess it follows the Nanoha route.

Nanoha gets beaten by Fate -> gets stronger.
Nanoha & Fate gets beaten by the Wolkenritter -> gets stronger.
Everyone gets beaten by Jail -> get stronger (and attack the 2 bases).
Si- ... oh never mind.

[Keroko]

By now they should have reached the "capable of fighting back" level though. We already know how strong Cypha is, we don't need another demonstration.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by bhl88

Si- ... oh never mind.

Yup, it's sad she got out of the "level up" program for Nanoha characters. If anything she leveled down with the spine problems and all(demonstrated by the need of having Agito and Isis babysitting her during the last chapter).

Originally Posted by Keroko

By now they should have reached the "capable of fighting back" level though.

Tohma seems so but any other seems to still be cannon fooder for the villains. Even the Raptors failed to make a difference xDU The irony is that even then both heroes and villains alike are talking about them and the AEC-Equipement as if they were sucessfull technologic miracles of science xDU

Originally Posted by Keroko

We already know how strong Cypha is, we don't need another demonstration.

Tsuzuki apparently thinks we still need to, since she's about to trash Quinn and Maria xD! To be honest i also think Cypha need to achieve solid feats of awesomeness since i'm tired of hearing about her battle with Signum as her only notorious achievement.

[Justin_Brett]

We already know how strong Cypha is, we don't need another demonstration.

This fight would be the first prolonged, detailed one she's in that doesn't have her getting beaten up for most of it, so it can't hurt.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

This fight would be the first prolonged, detailed one she's in that doesn't have her getting beaten up for most of it, so it can't hurt.

Plus, the first one where we're porbably see her fighting at the top of her power. During the first half of her fight with Signum she was just playing with her and had her butt handed to her for doing it. During the second half, a reacted Cypha defeated Signum without even trying.

The only time i remeber seeing a fully powered Cypha struggling was when she was trying to destroy Hayate's Heimdall. This will be the chance to see how strong Cypha really is when she fights seriously.

[bhl88]

it'll end up with Cypha laughing hard.

[Justin_Brett]

I'll laugh if they're both more than a match for her together and Section Six has to rescue her.

But that probably won't happen in this story.

[bhl88]

lol I'd let the Hucks get kicked first. Then Grendel family after.

[00-Raiser]

Spoiler for 23:

Looks like Alto and Teana get a big damn heroes moment. Teana's on a bike with what's apparently her new weapon.