The Novel and Manga of Haruhi Suzumiya

[Atheuz]

Originally Posted by Twisted Reality

Aren't they already romantically involved? Kyon likes Haruhi. He kissed her in novel one and secretly thinks that she's cute (or hot). He's sneaking peaks at Haruhi's body and has at least compared Haruhi to Mikuru once (Infinity Eight). And as far as he's concerned, Haruhi is his social life. He just doesn't like making it obvious to the audience or anybody he knows.

No, they're not romantically involved because I wouldn't exactly call the kiss in the first novel very romantic - Rather a last resort to see if he could get Haruhi to snap out of her "ohhh this is fun i wanna stay here forever"-mode.

I don't think it's a secret to anyone that Kyon thinks Haruhi is attractive, but based on that solely it's not a good enough reason to start being romancy, but yes I do agree without Haruhi his life would be very boring and she is his only source of entertainment as it is - I'm sure he has garnered some kind of feelings for her.

Fundamentally, I don't see their relationship changing all that much if they were to both "confess." Kyon will still think that Haruhi is being childish with her schemes and Haruhi will still expect Kyon to do all the heavy lifting. You know, except maybe there will be sex and lots of annoying PDA at some point.

Mmh I suppose you're right, but he would have to stop lying to himself at that point and the commentary/his thoughts would change somewhat, atleast that's what I think. I mean after confessing he would have no point in trying to keep his feelings a secret anymore, atleast not for the reader - He doesn't strike me as a person who'd go all "NO! THIS IS TOO EMBARRASING *puts fingers in ears* LALALALALALA" on us :/

Haruhi: Kyon! Sex now!"
Kyon: *complaining* I have a headache.
Haruhi: *pouts*

lol.

[UPR]

Well in the first kiss was not sorta for romance, but we all know they will be together just a matter of time before the author decides to hook them up.

[Twisted Reality]

Well, my point more or less is based of Itsuki's explanation in the Day of Sagittarius episode.

And his point was that so much of the basic relationship was already there, that Haruhi and Kyon are already functionally an unofficial couple. You know, the whole trust thing. It's arguably love, even if it doesn't seem very romantic on the surface. Besides, it seems his destiny is inextricably entangled in hers. Not that it matters, because he doesn't seem to mind this at all. He's already made a decision in that regard by coming to the SOS Brigade every day.

I don't know about you, but Kyon kissing Haruhi was sort of the, "yeah, you're pretty much committed to Haruhi" moment. And he does this after confronting the question "what is Haruhi to me?" She's not God, a data anomaly or a time quake.

And even though he's sexually attracted to her, she's more than just a piece of tail to him. In fact, he's probably the first person to roll his eyes when people suggest that's why he's with Haruhi in the first place. He's not the type of person to inconvenience himself just because a girl is hot. He'll look, but he's not prone to dashing his brains over the wall of futility.

And I suppose, for all practical purposes, most people would face temptation in the affairs marital. I don't really see that temptation coming from Nagato or Mikuru -- since they seem to lack a certain "practical chemistry" that makes relationships work. Mikuru is what Kyon *thinks* he wants. Either way, neither are really practical candidates in the long-run for Kyon. I think the only real competition really comes from Sasaki (from those of you who read the novels). And Sasaki is meant to generate conflict for Kyon, not bring him resolution.

Or in short, this is an involved explanation for what everybody knows already. Kyon and Haruhi are going to get together. It's in the story, even if it's not obvious in the plot. So as far as I'm concerned, the matter is a done deal. That's sort of the point: This is a story about a healthy adult male+female relationship being forged in high school and it's both fateful and magical. That's romantic. I got my rise out of it already.

Just to underscore the point, how well do high school relationships actually pan out? Was your first kiss nearly as dramatic as Kyon's?

[UPR]

As always in takes Twisted to put thing into perspective. Thanks, i sorta feel i understand it better now.

[KeitaroNagato]

I would like if some pls, pls, let me know whats going on in Chapter 2 and 3?
I've read it and it seems like the there is two split timeline in volume 9, is this correct?
If so... what is the read time? or there are actually 2 timeline co-exist parallel to each other? or there is actually 1 universe with 2 timeline ... if that is possible?

thanks.


ありがとう

[X207]

Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato

I would like if some pls, pls, let me know whats going on in Chapter 2 and 3?
I've read it and it seems like the there is two split timeline in volume 9, is this correct?
If so... what is the read time? or there are actually 2 timeline co-exist parallel to each other? or there is actually 1 universe with 2 timeline ... if that is possible?

thanks.


ありがとう

yes, theres the one where haruhi has the power and then theres the one where they support sasaki. so far they seem to coesist. as for which one is the real timeline, i suspect thats most likely for kyon to decide.

[Grey Goshawk]

But how is Kyon going to decide if there are two of them?
I can't really imagine how, since the 2 Kyons will need to talk to each other or for one Kyon to gain the other's memories or something :S

[X207]

Originally Posted by Grey Goshawk

But how is Kyon going to decide if there are two of them?
I can't really imagine how, since the 2 Kyons will need to talk to each other or for one Kyon to gain the other's memories or something :S

i guess we'll find out more about that in vol 10/11 or whenever a timeline is chosen.

[PastPrime]

Originally Posted by Grey Goshawk

But how is Kyon going to decide if there are two of them?
I can't really imagine how, since the 2 Kyons will need to talk to each other or for one Kyon to gain the other's memories or something :S

If the girl at the SOS Dan meeting was a slider then there is no reason that they can't both be the same Kyon. He has eperienced alternate timelines before.

[X207]

an itnersting kyon vol 10 theory someone posted up here (sry, forgot who it was)

Spoiler:

maybe kyon was the slider all along and he's obilvious to that fact+ ppl hid that secret from him.

that^ or the new girl are both intriguing possibilities imo

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by X207

an itnersting kyon vol 10 theory someone posted up here (sry, forgot who it was)

Spoiler:

maybe kyon was the slider all along and he's obilvious to that fact+ ppl hid that secret from him.

that^ or the new girl are both intriguing possibilities imo

Nah. The author said in an interview that Kyon was originally meant to be an Esper. But then he decided that an ordinary human was best as the narrator. I agree with him.

[X207]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Nah. The author said in an interview that Kyon was originally meant to be an Esper. But then he decided that an ordinary human was best as the narrator. I agree with him.

where was that interview posted? i didnt know about it until you posted that.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by X207

where was that interview posted? i didnt know about it until you posted that.

http://books.yahoo.co.jp/interview/d...131493/01.html

――退屈を何よりも嫌い、学園生活に「非日常」を求めるハルヒに振り回されるのが、語り手のキョンです。キ ョンは本名すら明かされず、これといって特徴もない、普通の少年ですが。

「まともな名前をつけてもよかったんですけど、最初から最後までけったいなニックネームで呼ばれ続けるとい うのもマヌケでいいのではないかと。特徴に関しては、当初の予定では超能力者の一人にしようかと考えていたのですが、プロローグを書いている途中で何故か一般人になってしまいました。 また、普通の少年とのことですが、ある意味思考形態はあまり普通ではないように思うんですけれ ども」

The underlined section is when he said Kyon was suppose to be an ESPer originally.

[Twisted Reality]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Nah. The author said in an interview that Kyon was originally meant to be an Esper. But then he decided that an ordinary human was best as the narrator. I agree with him.

Hardly seems to matter to me whether he's "ordinary" or not. The fact that he's selectively blinded to himself and his role makes him plenty of a mystery. And he is a slider, in a manner of speaking already since he's already jumped through several different time lines, been inside Haruhi's headspace and the pocket dimension with the Giant Cave Cricket.

From Haruhi's point of view, Kyon probably seems pretty mysterious. I wonder how much of her attraction is a result of the mystery that Kyon seems to embody. She definitely gets some sense of familiarity when she says "You look familiar, have I met you somewhere before?" He probably reminds her uncannily of John Smith, who answered her fervent prayers on the field and suggested the existence of aliens, time travelers and espers and influenced her decision to come to North High in the first place. Of course, Kyon couldn't reasonably be the same person as John Smith, but Haruhi senses that something is unusual here.

And really, with Kyon's special orientation within the Haruhi cosmology, you wonder what Kyon isn't aware of about himself. Haruhi doesn't know about her powers. What does Kyon not know about himself? He pretty much his own endless loop regarding Tanabata . . .

Spoiler for a:

. . . and it doesn't seem like a coincidence that both Sasaki and Haruhi have their own personal esper societies and Closed Spaces. I suspect Kyon is the reason why the power was transferred over. I also wonder if Sasaki's personal esper knew that Kyon was the important link when she petitioned for his help.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Twisted Reality

Hardly seems to matter to me whether he's "ordinary" or not. The fact that he's selectively blinded to himself and his role makes him plenty of a mystery. And he is a slider, in a manner of speaking already since he's already jumped through several different time lines, been inside Haruhi's headspace and the pocket dimension with the Giant Cave Cricket.

From Haruhi's point of view, Kyon probably seems pretty mysterious. I wonder how much of her attraction is a result of the mystery that Kyon seems to embody. She definitely gets some sense of familiarity when she says "You look familiar, have I met you somewhere before?" He probably reminds her uncannily of John Smith, who answered her fervent prayers on the field and suggested the existence of aliens, time travelers and espers and influenced her decision to come to North High in the first place. Of course, Kyon couldn't reasonably be the same person as John Smith, but Haruhi senses that something is unusual here.

And really, with Kyon's special orientation within the Haruhi cosmology, you wonder what Kyon isn't aware of about himself. Haruhi doesn't know about her powers. What does Kyon not know about himself? He pretty much his own endless loop regarding Tanabata . . .

Spoiler for a:

. . . and it doesn't seem like a coincidence that both Sasaki and Haruhi have their own personal esper societies and Closed Spaces. I suspect Kyon is the reason why the power was transferred over. I also wonder if Sasaki's personal esper knew that Kyon was the important link when she petitioned for his help.

Look, I don't mind if you want to be a Kyonist, or whatever else you want to believe. Kyon is an important person in the series, and that's not something anyone disputes. But I don't see why you need to wrap any mysticism around him as a person; he was someone in the right place at the right time, and became very vital to many powerful forces. But there is no suggestion anywhere for why Kyon would be anything but an ordinary person. The author in the novels intentionally made the point repeatedly that Kyon is without powers, because that's what he decided Kyon was to be.

Yes, it matter whether he is ordinary or not. An ordinary Kyon is a Kyon we can relate too, a Kyon we can understand. He keeps all the supernatural events around him grounded and within reach of the reader. This is important.

(p.s. by your own definition, every character in SOS dan is a slider. Thus, when everyone is a slider, nobody is.)

[shotna13]

hi, i'm new here. I've been reading the posts on this thread for some time now and i have some theories ( rather strange i think ) about Kyon
So... here it goes

Spoiler for all the novels, i guess:

first of all i would like to say that i also believe that Kyon is nothing more than an ordinary human being, with no special or supernatural powers whatsoever., and also an important character, if not the central character, in this story. That being said i'll get right to the point.
I think Kyon is actualy ( now this will sound very strange ) " the man who always makes the right choice". Ok...if you want to stop reading this weird theory now you can do so, i won't mind . But anyway...i'm not refering to the fact that Kyon is the main character of this story and thus the audience expects of him to always make the right choice, i am talking about Kyon's " reason to be". He is important because he is the only character who can make the right choice. i got this idea from another book i have read some time ago in which the hero is in a similar situation as that of kyon. The hero is also confronted by different factions , equaly powerful, which demand of him to make a choice regarding what faction should become the dominant one. He has the ability to always make the right decision, so whatever faction he chooses will bring peace an happiness to the worl/universe etc. This ability isn't somesort of a supernatural power, but rather luck, coincidence or instinct.
So returnig to Kyon's case maybe this is his true purpose. He is an ordinary human being with the ability to always make the right choice ( i know it's not an ordinary ability but bare with me). Throughout the novels he is confonted with different choices. In vol. 1 he finds himself in a closed space and "persuades " haruhi to return to the old world. In vol. 4 he chooses the old universe over the Nagato-universe. In vol. 7 he decides to help asahina (big) by following her instructions even though at one point he asks himself what if he were to disobey those instructions , and not to mention the important choice asahina(big) said he will have to make in the near future ( probably to decide who the new god-like existence should be: haruhi or sasaki. Who knows... maybe kyon would have to go back in time when sasaki had the powers and not haruhi and decide which one of them should hold on to those powers).
Also in Asahina Mikuru's Adventure Episode 00 Koizumy refers to Kyon as the key who can only open a door and nothing else ( however it si the key that decides which door should be opened), while in vol. 7 Koizumy tells kyon right at the end :

"Maybe the one with omnipotent powers isn't Suzumiya-san after all, but rather someone else?"

Koizumi's probably trying to add some sarcasm to his smile, yet all I saw was his usual grin.

"The eye of the storm is very calm, yet it is surrounded by calamity. Maybe there are some that decide to watch from the sidelines and see how all this unfolds. You sure have been kept busy as well, would a scriptwriter play such a tiring character himself?"

I don't know if this statement implies that kyon might be god ( it doesn't matter anyway) however it does underline kyon's importance to the story. And these aren't the only examples.On many occasions Kyon is confronted with several choices from which he has to pick only one, and usualy is the right one. So maybe because of this unique ability kyon was chosen both by haruhi and sasaki, koizumy pledged his loiality to him and nagato and asahina are both following his instructions.
I know this theory doesn't answer all the big questions, like what happened 3-4 years ago, where do haruhi's powers come from but...
well..i hope i didn't bore to much and...see ya

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by shotna13

hi, i'm new here. I've been reading the posts on this thread for some time now and i have some theories ( rather strange i think ) about Kyon
So... here it goes

Spoiler for all the novels, i guess:

first of all i would like to say that i also believe that Kyon is nothing more than an ordinary human being, with no special or supernatural powers whatsoever., and also an important character, if not the central character, in this story. That being said i'll get right to the point.
I think Kyon is actualy ( now this will sound very strange ) " the man who always makes the right choice". Ok...if you want to stop reading this weird theory now you can do so, i won't mind . But anyway...i'm not refering to the fact that Kyon is the main character of this story and thus the audience expects of him to always make the right choice, i am talking about Kyon's " reason to be". He is important because he is the only character who can make the right choice. i got this idea from another book i have read some time ago in which the hero is in a similar situation as that of kyon. The hero is also confronted by different factions , equaly powerful, which demand of him to make a choice regarding what faction should become the dominant one. He has the ability to always make the right decision, so whatever faction he chooses will bring peace an happiness to the worl/universe etc. This ability isn't somesort of a supernatural power, but rather luck, coincidence or instinct.
So returnig to Kyon's case maybe this is his true purpose. He is an ordinary human being with the ability to always make the right choice ( i know it's not an ordinary ability but bare with me). Throughout the novels he is confonted with different choices. In vol. 1 he finds himself in a closed space and "persuades " haruhi to return to the old world. In vol. 4 he chooses the old universe over the Nagato-universe. In vol. 7 he decides to help asahina (big) by following her instructions even though at one point he asks himself what if he were to disobey those instructions , and not to mention the important choice asahina(big) said he will have to make in the near future ( probably to decide who the new god-like existence should be: haruhi or sasaki. Who knows... maybe kyon would have to go back in time when sasaki had the powers and not haruhi and decide which one of them should hold on to those powers).
Also in Asahina Mikuru's Adventure Episode 00 Koizumy refers to Kyon as the key who can only open a door and nothing else ( however it si the key that decides which door should be opened), while in vol. 7 Koizumy tells kyon right at the end :

"Maybe the one with omnipotent powers isn't Suzumiya-san after all, but rather someone else?"

Koizumi's probably trying to add some sarcasm to his smile, yet all I saw was his usual grin.

"The eye of the storm is very calm, yet it is surrounded by calamity. Maybe there are some that decide to watch from the sidelines and see how all this unfolds. You sure have been kept busy as well, would a scriptwriter play such a tiring character himself?"

I don't know if this statement implies that kyon might be god ( it doesn't matter anyway) however it does underline kyon's importance to the story. And these aren't the only examples.On many occasions Kyon is confronted with several choices from which he has to pick only one, and usualy is the right one. So maybe because of this unique ability kyon was chosen both by haruhi and sasaki, koizumy pledged his loiality to him and nagato and asahina are both following his instructions.
I know this theory doesn't answer all the big questions, like what happened 3-4 years ago, where do haruhi's powers come from but...
well..i hope i didn't bore to much and...see ya

There is just one problem with your theory; we couldn't possibly know if any of Kyon's choices was right or not. Decisions Kyon made throughout the novels were never clear-cut. Kyon only truly made choices not for the sake of the universe, but for what he wanted. And that's all anyone expected him to do.

Spoiler for past novels:

Since up to now, we don't know what could have been the outcome if Kyon made a different choice in the past, you can't say one way or another if he had been right. Kyon could have stayed in Haruhi's new world, or he could have become a member of Yuki's literature club, and things could have worked out. But Kyon made his own dicision on what he wanted, and that's that.
(Another major hole in your theory, is that if Kyon could always make the right choice, they would never have gotten stuck in the time-loop in Endless8 for that many hundreds of thousands of times; they would have broken out way earlier.)

In fact, assuming the split-world in the new novel would even be solved by Kyon, it might be the first time we even see an alternative of what could have happened if Kyon made another choice. As I said, there is a chance this might not even be related to him.

[NagatoYuki]

can the cat at episode 00 really talk?

[Atheuz]

Originally Posted by shotna13

hi, i'm new here. I've been reading the posts on this thread for some time now and i have some theories ( rather strange i think ) about Kyon
So... here it goes

Spoiler for all the novels, i guess:

"Maybe the one with omnipotent powers isn't Suzumiya-san after all, but rather someone else?"

Koizumi's probably trying to add some sarcasm to his smile, yet all I saw was his usual grin.

"The eye of the storm is very calm, yet it is surrounded by calamity. Maybe there are some that decide to watch from the sidelines and see how all this unfolds. You sure have been kept busy as well, would a scriptwriter play such a tiring character himself?"

Spoiler for Spoilar:

No. He was being sarcastic and Kyon is just a normal teenager - This has been pointed out by the author many times. Also, everything appears to happen when Haruhi wants it to. Like in the movie they made, the contacts Asahina could send out lasers, miniature black holes and so on - All because Haruhi wanted them to be special. Or when Haruhi got bored of the world and she got stuck in the Closed Space with Kyon, she was the one who got them out too. Or when she's annoyed she creates Closed Spaces and at those times nothing shows that Kyon might be annoyed or create them subconsiciously. There is too much that points towards Haruhi being the omnipotent one and every single supernatural event in the story besides the timetravel ones by Asahina, the data manipulation by Nagato or the termination of closed space monsters by Itsuki are connected to Haruhi.

Originally Posted by NagatoYuki

can the cat at episode 00 really talk?

Spoiler for Kitty:

Yes, Haruhi wanted a talking cat - So they got one.

[shotna13]

Point taken. We might never know if any of kyon choices were right or not. I just like how the phrase "the man who always makes the right choice" sounded . However you can't deny the fact that throughout the novels most of the choices involved are left up to kyon. So let me rephrase it: whether he makes the right choices or not will probably never know, however the other characters ( Koizumy, Nagato, Asahina(big)) trust Kyon in such matters and believe he'll be able to make the right decions.

Spoiler for some novels:

Vol. 9 isn't the first time we've seen two different realities. It also happened in Disappeareance where there were actualy two December 18. It was left up to Kyon to decide which one should be the real world. And true he didn't make that decisions for the sake of the universe, however his decision did influence the entire universe at the end. The only difference between vol. 4 and vol. 9 ( if it's the same case here) is that Kyon remembered the old Haruhi-universe and that was because of Nagato who didn't erase his memories so he could be able to make the choice.

About Endless Eight. My hat's off to you. I can think at enything good right now...however it was more like solving a riddle in that case than actualy making a choice