[Manga] Chapter 447 Discussion

[james0246]

Originally Posted by ChojinLocke

I dont think Naruto will become 'Hokage'. The idea would imply that Konoha survives the war which I dont think will happen. I see a big war coming up and whole countries being torn to shreds. Naruto might be the leader of Ninjas against some unknown threat looming in the horizon (he might be called Hokage in that aspect if they decide he will lead them) and I have said before anyways in this forum that I see him dying in greatness rather than surviving as an irritating buffoon (although much less irritating after the latest Sage mode training). I would like to see Naruto and Sasuke teaming up against Madara or someone else but I think they will fight and kill each other in the final battle. I dont know..if Naruto doesnt die for me this whole manga will suck big time coz he is supposed to be some kind of hero (he is the name of the manga) and heroes die to become heroes... heroically.. No?

So...the first 60 years of Sarutobi's life were un-heroic because he didn't die? And, since Jiraiya died in an "unseemly" manner, he is not a hero? Etc. Self-sacrifice (leading to death) is not a pre-requisite for being a hero; it is simply one avenue that can lead to being called a "hero" (to use a real world example: are police officers only heroes when they die?; is a soldier only a hero if they die? can a fireperson only be a hero if they die? etc). In other words, heroes are not heroes because they die, they are heroes because they save...or some such platutude along those lines.

That being said, Naruto could die by the end of the series, I am not discounting that option. Rather, I am disagreeing with your logic that Naruto can only be a hero if he dies. For instance, Naruto, without dying, will be the Hero of Konoha after this battle.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Is Naruto that dark of a story? I mean, it is pretty dark compared to a lot of shounen out there and it's gotten a lot darker in pt II but ultimately I think it's meant to be an uplifting story. I'm with james and noodles on this one. This isn't Dark Knight and Naruto isn't the Batman, he doesn't need to pay a price for every decision. People get inspired by seeing him succeed and persevere not seeing him make sacrifices and giving up on his dreams.

Just about every single hero in this story has died sacrificing themselves and ultimately left unfulfilled obligations which Naruto (and those of his generation) must take care of. I think Naruto will be the one who finally breaks that cycle and actually complete his life's work by becoming Hokage. He'll have his cake and eat it too. A happy ending may be cliche, but more fitting for his story, imo.

Anyways, I doubt we see the next Hokage Naruto or otherwise, until near the end of the story. Right now, Naruto has too many things to take care of before he can lead the village. Tsunade can lead the recovery of Konoha (if Danzou doesn't have plans to prevent that), Naruto is better off as an active shinobi. Still, he already has a huge influence on the morale of the people in Konoha. He'll have a bigger role in the welfare of the village.

[Sazelyt]

Depends on what you call as a price and a sacrifice. Losing someone you love because they tried to protect you, that already happened, and that would have already happened at a high ratio if not for Kishi's desire to save some. It is indirect but it happened.

Will he face a decision in the future where he needs to give up on someone close to him, directly? We will see that. It is not impossible, as there were many who had sacrificed someone important along the way. Especially if we are talking about the Hokages, it becomes even more probable. Yeah, Naruto will be a different Hokage, but that does not mean he will be able to avoid any kind of sacrifice along the way.

Right now, the next step for him to grow into a more realistic role would be making that decision. Especially when he will be facing people who have strong desire to destroy what is precious for him completely.

[Spicy~Noodles]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Leaving the village and going on a journey does not mean that Naruto becomes a wanderer. Naruto has already traveled with Jiraiya for almost 3 years before, so it's not unprecedented.

If Konoha, was in good shape right now. Without the need to overextend themselves or need emergency assistance and Naruto had some training that required him going far away. I can see it happening, but with the way Konoha is now, no way... absolutely no way.. if I were Hokage and Naruto just released Nagato and abandoned the village.. I'd have him assassinated, and I really like him a lot, that's how traitorous leaving would be right now.

It's kinda like.. hanging with your best friend, seeing him getting stabbed up and bleeding all over the place, to the point where your friend is just laying there bleeding, beating the crap out of the bad guy, then letting the bad guy go and leaving your best friend to die. If the friend recovered, the two could never be friends again.

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Spicy~Noodles

Manny Pacquiao is a hero and legend in his nation of the Philippines, dying is DEFINITELY is not a requirement to become a hero. Heros are more so known as great protectors and defenders than, marytrism. Suicide, is wack.

Good point but then again Manny Pacquiao is a real person, not a fictional character in a shonen manga/anime series. Besides, Pacquiao is considered a hero because he brings honor to his country. When he fights, his country fights with him. But even he is not exempted from commercialism. He earns millions through product endorsements, he produces and stars in his own films, he gambles away his money, and he spends his money like a real superstar, something that most people find offensive to some point. He once ran for congress but lost to a more capable candidate, proof that no matter how beloved and popular he is, he could only go so far. The people believe in his capability as an athlete but they don't look up to him as a leader-type. The same goes for Naruto. He may be considered a hero in his village, they might believe in his ability to save them, but they might not believe in his capability as a leader.

I don't support Sasuke becoming Hokage either, but in my opinion Naruto has a bigger role to play in this story. Being Hokage would simply mean he gets to save his village and fulfill his childhood dreams. But the past few chapters of the manga has obviously changed the theme of the series. Naruto is no longer just a boy with a big dream, he is now a boy with a prophecy to fulfill, and to fulfill that prophecy he might have to rise above his own desires and ambitions. Pain and suffering changes people whether for the better or for worse. I think his recent losses could change him, and after his encounter with Pain, I think he will become more determined to find that peace that Jiraiya and Nagato so desired. Konoha is but one village, Konoha needs him but the world needs him more so to speak.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Spicy~Noodles

if I were Hokage and Naruto just released Nagato and abandoned the village.. I'd have him assassinated, and I really like him a lot, that's how traitorous leaving would be right now.

Now you are confirming my thinking here: if Naruto releases Nagato it will turn many people against him, his own village may turn against him. Add to that situation Danzou and Naruto ends up in a big mess. His loyalty to Konoha will be definitely questioned, this will be a big test of loyalty here. We see that people like Shikamaru will definitely not turn against Naruto, but we are talking about a whole village here, with all it's internal issues. That is why i think that Naruto might be forced to leave the village to prevent internal fighting, to protect the life of those who are loyal to him. He will know that they'll be waiting for his return.

Originally Posted by Spicy~Noodles

It's kinda like.. hanging with your best friend, seeing him getting stabbed up and bleeding all over the place, to the point where your friend is just laying there bleeding, beating the crap out of the bad guy, then letting the bad guy go and leaving your best friend to die. If the friend recovered, the two could never be friends again.

Thanks to Tsunade most of the people survived, only the buildings were destroyed, the ninja village is not bleeding, it's all right. At least we can say that this attack was not more devastating than Sound+Sand's attack, on the contrary, i think that less people have died and also the hokage was not killed (Orochi killed the 3rd).

You should look at it in a more general way: why did all this happen? because Pain was looking after Naruto. People like Danzou will say that all this happened because of Naruto, and it's difficult to argue against the fact that if Naruto were simply given to akatsuki then Konoha would not be destroyed. This is logical, in the short run.
But Naruto must now think in long term, he is targeted and if he stays away from Konoha that is good for the village. He is now fighting for the sake of the whole ninja system (even if he wants to change it), because if he gets captured then it's all over, the doomsday machine will be built and all the villages will be annihilated by Madara. But as we see stupid ninja villages don't see this, that's why they handed over their demons so easily, as it was said by akatsukians some villages were even happy that the dangerous demons are no more there. This ignorance is what can be used by Danzou or Madara against Naruto.

[Spicy~Noodles]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

Good point but then again Manny Pacquiao is a real person, not a fictional character in a shonen manga/anime series. Besides, Pacquiao is considered a hero because he brings honor to his country. When he fights, his country fights with him. But even he is not exempted from commercialism. He earns millions through product endorsements, he produces and stars in his own films, he gambles away his money, and he spends his money like a real superstar, something that most people find offensive to some point. He once ran for congress but lost to a more capable candidate, proof that no matter how beloved and popular he is, he could only go so far. The people believe in his capability as an athlete but they don't look up to him as a leader-type. The same goes for Naruto. He may be considered a hero in his village, they might believe in his ability to save them, but they might not believe in his capability as a leader.

I don't support Sasuke becoming Hokage either, but in my opinion Naruto has a bigger role to play in this story. Being Hokage would simply mean he gets to save his village and fulfill his childhood dreams. But the past few chapters of the manga has obviously changed the theme of the series. Naruto is no longer just a boy with a big dream, he is now a boy with a prophecy to fulfill, and to fulfill that prophecy he might have to rise above his own desires and ambitions. Pain and suffering changes people whether for the better or for worse. I think his recent losses could change him, and after his encounter with Pain, I think he will become more determined to find that peace that Jiraiya and Nagato so desired. Konoha is but one village, Konoha needs him but the world needs him more so to speak.

I'm just gonna say it like this: Prepare yourself, I'm gonna go full blast, you might not like what I say, we won't get personal though because now my debate with you has become "not personal." And it may not be over for a very very very very long time. So like I said, get ready. For some balanced debate. (maybe unbalanced, I write alot.)

Let me go ahead and start with this one, with Manny Pacquiao.. I could have used other people I idolize. But in truth his accomplishments have been mostly in the ring. Yet, when I watch his fights, I pray for him. I'm not Filipino, but I want to be just like him. What he does for people, is amazing. When I learn about him and I just watch some videos about him and the things he does outside of the ring, I cry.. I hate to admit I would shed tears for someone I never met. But I was definitely a weaker person before I learned about him. He has been my motivation throughout many recent years, though all my struggles and I thank him every time I am triumphant.

I am living proof, he is a hero, because he is my hero. And he is a leader-type, when he retires from boxing and really gets into politics, there is no question he will win. Manny Pacquiao of 2007 and 2009 in terms of popularity is on a completely different scale. Everyone is human, Obama admitted to smoking marijuana and snorting cocaine. Gambling like in cock-fights and stuff I know about, it's not a big deal. What a big deal is how much he money he spends, especially charities, he gives away so much money his own trainer fears he could give it all away he is heroic with his own personal income. He even gives money to random people on the street, donating an estimated 2million USD, he provides FREE education to the people of his village and has a gym for the poor. When he fights the entire country stops fighting, stops committing crime, even stops moving, I can't name another superstar who can affect a nation like he can. He is the leader type, he has done things to people that not even Naruto has done yet.

Another thing about the government in the Philippines along with virtually all countries in Asia is that the government is extremely corrupt, from top to bottom. Another hero of mine was a political leader, he didn't die in battle. He died of old age. He was one of the bravest SOB you'll probably ever find. He faced off with several great nations in his life and the strongest nation in the world at the time and managed to win. I won't say who he is, a lot of you haven't studied him in depth so I wouldn't expect you to understand. But if your curious, hes a little old man, and the people in his country call him uncle. And no, not Sam... Sam was on the other side.

I completely disagree with your analysis of Naruto. Even Tsunade listens to Naruto. The second he reappeared to fight Pein, he became the leader. Only he was calling the shots. Everyone believes in him, the Hokage's job is actually extremely simple, protect the country and village. Naruto is the most capable individual for that position. Hokage's aren't really king of a nation, they are simply put in charge of the military and police. They don't get elected, as general's in the military don't get elected. They get appointed, and ITS ALWAYS BASED OFF OF THEIR MERIT AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS. None the less, Naruto would win a popular election no doubt after the battle. Not even a second guess, if a 6th Hokage was to be elected not appointed, Naruto would win. Based off of all the information we know about him, he is the obvious choice, no one even comes remotely close after Kakashi died.

What is the destined child of prophecy going to do? Bring peace to the world? First of all, one definition of the "Power" can be defined as how many people, and how much land someone or something controls. Did you ever begin to think that his childhood dreams was the answer to the prophecy in the first place? That the book never changed him at all, it just reassured what he was meant to do in life. The child of prophecy is going to save the world, and the Hokage is the most qualified person to do that EXACT job. How can you save the world if your not trying to protect things everyday. Are you just going to walk around in the woods, talk to strangers and pray that an opportunity to save the world is just gonna pop up in your face and say hello? The Hokage receives all the intelligence they can gather, and employing the best ninjas to gather that info.

If you haven't noticed yet, Naruto has no scouting ability whatsoever. In fact I'm pretty sure being in Sage mode and finding Nagato was the first and only time he has effectively scouted a place. As a single individual without a force and people who recognize you as a leader, you might as well be a doctor, at least he can help people. He may be a one-man army but hiding in the shadows won't save the world. Konoha is one village, and it has been the most powerful and important village in this manga. Saving kages of other villages, assassinating leaders of gangs, holding chunin exams, having the majority of chunins, committing mass genocide, the list could go on and on. Konoha is a very unique village to be the leader of. He can do more as Hokage than as anything else. He could turn all of his ninjas into ambassadors of peace, instead of agents of violence. Being Hokage makes him more likely to save the world, than being merely a sage, or priest. With his loud ass mouth and attitude, he can spread his message much more easily than in any another form.

Thanks to Tsunade most of the people survived, only the buildings were destroyed, the ninja village is not bleeding, it's all right. At least we can say that this attack was not more devastating than Sound+Sand's attack, on the contrary, i think that less people have died and also the hokage was not killed (Orochi killed the 3rd).

You should look at it in a more general way: why did all this happen? because Pain was looking after Naruto. People like Danzou will say that all this happened because of Naruto, and it's difficult to argue against the fact that if Naruto were simply given to akatsuki then Konoha would not be destroyed. This is logical, in the short run.
But Naruto must now think in long term, he is targeted and if he stays away from Konoha that is good for the village. He is now fighting for the sake of the whole ninja system (even if he wants to change it), because if he gets captured then it's all over, the doomsday machine will be built and all the villages will be annihilated by Madara. But as we see stupid ninja villages don't see this, that's why they handed over their demons so easily, as it was said by akatsukians some villages were even happy that the dangerous demons are no more there. This ignorance is what can be used by Danzou or Madara against Naruto.

Ero-Senn1n you are right that maybe leaving the village would be a safer option since he is the one with the bulls eye on his back. And there is no doubt someone will attempt to take him out sooner or later. But running away and ducking in the shadows is no better an answer to the problem. He might as well stand tall and let them bring it, defeat them and continue on. If he gets into danger alone there is no one to save him and the doomsday machine will be made anyways. There may be less causalities in those single fights (either Naruto will die, or Mandara or whoever will die), but the doomsday machine will undoubtedly bring more death once completed. Might as well fight with everything you got, and stand fearless to your adversaries. It's like saying Naruto is a walking hydrogen bomb that can be reused as many times as whoever controls them wants and all the terrorists in the world want it so they can blow up whatever they want as many times as they want. Why would you send that walking hydrogen bomb out into wilderness where evil lurks around every corner ready to ambush him. It doesn't sound like the most effective answer.

The death count hasn't been added up yet, but by the looks of things, I'm almost sure that Pein killed people innocents than Sound and Sand ever did in Konoha. More critical characters were killed. Kakashi, Shizune come to mind. People were getting their souls sucked out left and right, and chopped with paper. There was only 1 notable in Sand and Sound attack, the 3rd. The damage suffered in Konoha is unprecedented in the manga. How many ninjas are probably buried under the rubble. To me it seems there was less time to evacuate with Pein than with Orochimaru. Even though Tsunade used just about everything in an attempt to save as many as possible, there is a limit to what she can do. Just look that make shift triage center they set up, there was a tremendous amount of badly injured people. And clearly not enough medics. People are gonna die soon, if they aren't already dead.

In terms of damage Pein > Orochimaru.

Therefore, Konoha is bleeding to me. A lot more than when Orochimaru came to visit. Konoha is CLEARLY DEFINITIVELY not alright like you say. The village is a creater, mountains were wiped off the planet. Orochimaru didn't have those capabilities. If you sent Orochimaru, the sound and sand village altogether in an organized attack against just Pein alone.. Pein would utterly destroy them all, but he probably be coughing up a little bit of blood by the end. None the less, it would be a clear decisive victory.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Spicy~Noodles

In terms of damage Pein > Orochimaru.

Therefore, Konoha is bleeding to me. A lot more than when Orochimaru came to visit. Konoha is CLEARLY DEFINITIVELY not alright like you say. The village is a creater, mountains were wiped off the planet. Orochimaru didn't have those capabilities. If you sent Orochimaru, the sound and sand village altogether in an organized attack against just Pein alone.. Pein would utterly destroy them all, but he probably be coughing up a little bit of blood by the end. None the less, it would be a clear decisive victory.

When Orochimaru came, Konoha was ready. If you ignore the kids growing up, they had a lot more strength at the time. Also, Orochimaru has a different initial goal, so he didn't have the chance to cause that much ruckus. If he had wanted, he could have fought against Sarutobi in a much wider space with Manda and a lot more summons included. And considering the capabilities of the ex-Hokages he brought back to life, that happening outside the isolated space would have been a very big trouble for Konoha.

Konoha was lucky during the previous attack. This time, that is not the case. Because the target was missing, unlike Oro's case. No real focused attack. I think it is better to not underestimate the real destructive strength of Orochimaru, just by looking at what happened based on a scenario he was forced to follow.

[Spicy~Noodles]

Your right, I shouldn't underestimate what Orochimaru was capable of I was just looking at the results of what they've done, that's all. I totally agree FipSkuul, I didn't think about it clearly enough.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Spicy~Noodles

But running away and ducking in the shadows is no better an answer to the problem. He might as well stand tall and let them bring it, defeat them and continue on.

Why do you call that "running away" and "ducking in the shadows"?
He can go on a journey and "stand tall", he would not escape from the village or try to hide from akatsuki, he would leave the village because he thinks that's the best for Konoha, in fact that would be a sacrifice he makes for Konoha. If Naruto makes such a sactifice that would make him similar to Itachi, that would give Naruto more credibility when talking with Sasuke in the future.

Originally Posted by Spicy~Noodles

If he gets into danger alone there is no one to save him and the doomsday machine will be made anyways.

If we look at his fight against Pain we can clearly see that even the smartest of Konoha (Shikamaru's father and Tsunade) clearly see that the best way to help Naruto is to hide in a safe place until the fight is over.

Originally Posted by Spicy~Noodles

Why would you send that walking hydrogen bomb out into wilderness where evil lurks around every corner ready to ambush him. It doesn't sound like the most effective answer.

Obviously not, but Konoha has already totally failed in protecting Naruto, in fact Naruto ended up protecting Konoha. He arrived in the last moment to save the life of the hokage, while anbu and others were standing there like idiots or laying around unconsciusly.

But why do you think that someone would send Naruto out? If he leaves the village the only reason can be that he decided to do so. Imagine this situation: Danzou takes the lead of the village and hides Tsunade somewhere. What would he do with Naruto, based on his past actions? He would treat Naruto like a servant: a demon container that must follow orders and must not leave the village ever but has to be guarded by root anbu all the time, he would take away Naruto's freedom. Do you think that Naruto would let his freedom taken away by Danzou? He would surely rebel, but Danzou seeing how strong Naruto is would use naruto's friends as hostages against Naruto, making sure that Naruto never turns against him. Then Naruto would have to either accept Danzou's rule or leave the village.

Originally Posted by Spicy~Noodles

The death count hasn't been added up yet, but by the looks of things, I'm almost sure that Pein killed people innocents than Sound and Sand ever did in Konoha.

I think the two events produced about the same destruction and bodycount, but it's pointless to debate this since we both only have our assumptions which is very subjective, no facts about this, and i think Kishi never wanted to give us any numbers because it does not matter that much.
I agree that Pain is much stronger than Orochimaru+sound+sand, but that does not mean more damage for various reasons: 1. Pain gave time to Konoha to evacuate all civilians and children, only fighting units were on the ground. 2. Tsunade's role must not be underestimated: her healing combined with the boss slug's personal-airbag-like defensive abilities saved most of the fighting ninjas 3. in the 3 years of Tsunade's rule many medical ninja's were trained, she always gave much importance to have at least one medical ninja in every ninja team, Kishimoto even made Danzou talk about Tsunade's outstanding ability to save injured people.

[Justin Kim]

Originally Posted by ChojinLocke

I dont think Naruto will become 'Hokage'. The idea would imply that Konoha survives the war which I dont think will happen. I see a big war coming up and whole countries being torn to shreds. Naruto might be the leader of Ninjas against some unknown threat looming in the horizon (he might be called Hokage in that aspect if they decide he will lead them) and I have said before anyways in this forum that I see him dying in greatness rather than surviving as an irritating buffoon (although much less irritating after the latest Sage mode training). I would like to see Naruto and Sasuke teaming up against Madara or someone else but I think they will fight and kill each other in the final battle. I dont know..if Naruto doesnt die for me this whole manga will suck big time coz he is supposed to be some kind of hero (he is the name of the manga) and heroes die to become heroes... heroically.. No?

Ok but why is the show called Naruto then? LOL. If they did not make Naruto Hokage at all throughout the manga series. I am pretty sure some people here would feel massively disappointed knowing that the mangaka pretty much rubbed it in there faces saying: Naruto's actions were entirely fruitless, but hey he made friends with Sasuke again! I mean there is a reason behind Naruto's development within the story, and the dream is to become a Hokage. I mean exactly how many times was Naruto on the verge of death; then owned everyone with the demon fox's power or his own?

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Justin Kim

Ok but why is the show called Naruto then? LOL. If they did not make Naruto Hokage at all throughout the manga series.... I mean there is a reason behind Naruto's development within the story, and the dream is to become a Hokage.

The story begins with Naruto sharing with us his goal of becoming a Hokage, and continues with many examples to support that idea later on. So of course he will become a Hokage, sooner or later. Hence you have all the valid reasons to ignore such speculations that hold no basis at all. I guess there is no limit to hate, distaste, grudge, ignorance, or else, that gives birth to such ideas.

[tsurumaru]

So does anyone see the path Naruto might take to find "peace"?
I'm surprised no one has been willing to speculate, do you destroy the leadership of each country and join them all together to create an empire (much like ancient China did), do you unite all against a common enemy (Akatsuki, Sasuke, Naruto?) or do you abolish the Ninja villages altogether and make every citizen of each country a Ninja?

There are many parallels with real historical events and imagined futures, many of which I haven't mentioned above, which do you think will Naruto pursue?

[Takashipl]

He will show with his greatness that war is bad and the ninja should live in peace, and all Kages will do a facepalm shouting:
"Why haven't we thought about that before?"

After that, only ninja jobs will be fending off bandits and nukenins, thus they will gradually decline and after, say, hundred years ninja will be no more

[Spicy~Noodles]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Why do you call that "running away" and "ducking in the shadows"?
He can go on a journey and "stand tall", he would not escape from the village or try to hide from akatsuki, he would leave the village because he thinks that's the best for Konoha, in fact that would be a sacrifice he makes for Konoha. If Naruto makes such a sactifice that would make him similar to Itachi, that would give Naruto more credibility when talking with Sasuke in the future.


If we look at his fight against Pain we can clearly see that even the smartest of Konoha (Shikamaru's father and Tsunade) clearly see that the best way to help Naruto is to hide in a safe place until the fight is over.


Obviously not, but Konoha has already totally failed in protecting Naruto, in fact Naruto ended up protecting Konoha. He arrived in the last moment to save the life of the hokage, while anbu and others were standing there like idiots or laying around unconsciusly.

But why do you think that someone would send Naruto out? If he leaves the village the only reason can be that he decided to do so. Imagine this situation: Danzou takes the lead of the village and hides Tsunade somewhere. What would he do with Naruto, based on his past actions? He would treat Naruto like a servant: a demon container that must follow orders and must not leave the village ever but has to be guarded by root anbu all the time, he would take away Naruto's freedom. Do you think that Naruto would let his freedom taken away by Danzou? He would surely rebel, but Danzou seeing how strong Naruto is would use naruto's friends as hostages against Naruto, making sure that Naruto never turns against him. Then Naruto would have to either accept Danzou's rule or leave the village.

With the knowledge that Naruto has of Danzou, he wouldn't allow Danzou to control him. If Naruto has to beat every beat root Anbu to a pulp and Danzou, to show hes gonna obey Danzou.. he will do it. Nagato told Naruto how Danzou was involved in making Nagato who he is now. So.. theres not even a snowballs chance in hell that Naruto would simply lower his head and take it from in the butt from Danzou. I highly doubt, Tsunade is gonna be out of a job, because Naruto is there and he backs her up. Danzou won't even become hokage.. it's impossible. Danzou completely failed in stopping Naruto from coming to the rescue. Naruto came and rescued and when realized that it was he was he who stabbed the messenger frog, its the end for Danzou in konoha.. he might as well commit supuku. Because he won't be seeing the light of day for lifetimes to come.

Konoha failed in protecting Naruto because when it all began, Danzou killed the frog, it was his fault entirely that the village was obliterated. Naruto still figured it out, but of course now.. all he has to do is connect the dots. And Danzou is gonna be a whole lot of shit.

Naruto is the only person that is capable of protecting the village from dangers of Nagato's caliber. Danzou would not be capable of doing that, hes not strong enough. He'll just be killed. Naruto has to stay within the village, if not as hokage, then as the lone ranger (aka Chuck Norris) and roundhouse kick his way to peace. Konoha is crippled, they just got kneecapped, comon' Naruto is going nowhere.

[Justin Kim]

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

The story begins with Naruto sharing with us his goal of becoming a Hokage, and continues with many examples to support that idea later on. So of course he will become a Hokage, sooner or later. Hence you have all the valid reasons to ignore such speculations that hold no basis at all. I guess there is no limit to hate, distaste, grudge, ignorance, or else, that gives birth to such ideas.

There was no hate implicated in the thread, but I do think yes, people are sometimes ignorant of the fact that Naruto's primary goal will come true. Hence, why would the show name itself after the main protagonist?

[naruske]

Originally Posted by Master Mold

Good chapter Hanzou is badass, Kid Nagato was badass and crazy looking. That statue was alot similar to the one that is used to seal Bijuu, just younger, and the attack it uses looks just like the Dragon sealing jutsu, the only difference was that it was just one Dragon, instead of Nine Dragons.

it is the same one that seals the Bijuu. it just has those eyes around the head now.

[james0246]

^I don't think we can say with 100% certainty that the 2 statutes are the same...at least not yet. Not only are their eyes on the statute used to seal the bijuu, but there are also chains around the creatures arms/hands, the reins in its mouth, and, of course, the 5 pairs of eyes...

That being said, the statutes are remarkably similar, to the extent that it is possible that the Gedou Mazou simply changed over time into the statute we see currently. That still doesn't explain, though, how Madara was going to seal the Hachibi without Pain/Nagato.

[ChojinLocke]

Originally Posted by james0246

So...the first 60 years of Sarutobi's life were un-heroic because he didn't die? And, since Jiraiya died in an "unseemly" manner, he is not a hero? Etc. Self-sacrifice (leading to death) is not a pre-requisite for being a hero; it is simply one avenue that can lead to being called a "hero" (to use a real world example: are police officers only heroes when they die?; is a soldier only a hero if they die? can a fireperson only be a hero if they die? etc). In other words, heroes are not heroes because they die, they are heroes because they save...or some such platutude along those lines.

That being said, Naruto could die by the end of the series, I am not discounting that option. Rather, I am disagreeing with your logic that Naruto can only be a hero if he dies. For instance, Naruto, without dying, will be the Hero of Konoha after this battle.

Real life examples are out of context and meaning since they do not reflect the subject matter. We might as well be comparing apples and orranges.

Jiraya was not a hero no. He was a powerful and legendary ninja (all of the sannin) but certainly not a hero within the narutoverse. As for Sarutobi? No before he died he was simply the Hokage, the professor and many other things but the way he died against the odds saving the village established him as hero. Other examples include: the fourth Hokage or Kakashi's father and probably Kakashi after him, Obito those kind of guys that did something heroic. Heroes are meant to produce or attempt to produce feats or achievements which are beyond what they could normally achieve.

By the way do not confuse hero for us the readers with hero for the Narutoverse population because you will go out of context. I was just saying that within this framework of Ninja cyclic wars, a great power being slain dying heroically would establish him as a hero for future generations just like the Fourth was established after he died not before. The matter of death is important in this kind of circumstance in a military nation.

Oh and as for Batman from another guy..please..perhaps Naruto might survive and all but first of all 1)Batman is psychodisordered guy with mesiah complex and 2) there is no relevance to Naruto either in theme or any other way.

And also who said Naruto has to sacrifice his dreams? He will probably achieve everything and die. What's so wrong with dying anyways? Don't get your thinking people..Anyways have your opinions, lol

[james0246]

Originally Posted by ChojinLocke

Real life examples are out of context and meaning since they do not reflect the subject matter. We might as well be comparing apples and orranges.

Well...besides the fact that you can compare apples and oranges...I understand the point you are trying to make and completely disagree. A hero is simply a person who accomplishes something (generally considered "good" or "just" within the conventions of that society) despite the odds. Consequently, almost anyone at any time can be a hero, and living or dying matters very little to the defintion of being a hero (even in Naruto, living or dying matters very little when trying to define a hero). For instance, Minato was a hero for 'defeating' the Kyuubi (and before that he was a hero for almost single-handedly defeating the Iwa nation), and Naruto is a hero for defeating Pain/Nagato.

Originally Posted by ChojinLocke

And also who said Naruto has to sacrifice his dreams? He will probably achieve everything and die. What's so wrong with dying anyways? Don't get your thinking people..Anyways have your opinions, lol

I have never once said that Naruto must live. Rather, I could see Naruto going the way of Beowulf - dying at a very old age after defeating one last foe (or to use a DB refference, Goku disappearing after defeating Shenlong (or whatever that stupid dragon was from GT)). Rather, I disagree with the notions that either Naruto must die sometime soon, or that Naruto must die to "save" Sasuke, and other such ideas.