Code Geass Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[mangastuff]

I guess 1 behind reason of ep 20 is to check viewers' responds, maybe for (1) change of protagonist for 2nd season or (2) change of view (say, to make it more heroism, nearer to GS). Because the director and co. intentionally made the series as parody of some anime clinches, and its view is more or less "not usual" so sure they will need feedbacks or even to do some test

My guess maybe is just a guess, but anyway, the responds may at least show Sunrise the recent fashion ^_^ I was kind of worried when I read reply of spoiler Fake Odochi "no comment" about the change of protagonist in 2nd. Now I think it won't happen

[Juvyniled]

Originally Posted by D a m i e n

1 more crap episode like this one and i wont concider this show worth my time anymore.

A little far-fetched, don't you suppose? At the very least, there was some sort of conflict in this episode. I'd have to say this episode at the very least beats the whole incident with Arthur and the mask.

[Juvyniled]

Originally Posted by ashlay

then again, you can never forget the "LelouchxMilly" angle. she's been constantly talking to him about this whole marriage thing, and he was right in front of rivalz back in 18. P:

She's probably waiting for her knight in shining armor to sweep her off the ground and take her away. She's either 1) expressing her disdain for the fact that she won't be able to enjoy her freedom as she is now after her marriage or 2) she wants Lelouch to do something (or even someone else).

Originally Posted by quina

One point to note is that Gawain is developed using technology extracted from Research the Ancient. (it specificly said so in ep 19). If CC is one of the Ancient, she might not have problem learning the interface and deal with piloting. (I also suspect that the first KMF might also be from ancient tech, but story didn't mention it).

Interesting point, and it really raises questions like why the empire had it in the first place,how frames tie into C.C.'s past (unless of course she is simply some sort of prodigy), who those ancients are and if they have any ties to Geass. I don't mean to ridicule C.C., I know other mecha series have shown young pilots to be capable of handling mecha without prior ability, but even the frames should have plenty of controls. Gawain is pretty stacked with firepower.

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

I don't mean to ridicule C.C., I know other mecha series have shown young pilots to be capable of handling mecha without prior ability, but even the frames should have plenty of controls. Gawain is pretty stacked with firepower.

Well, C.C. is not exactly young, despite how she looks, is she ? One can assume she picked up KF piloting out of boredom if nothing else At any rate - it is an useful ability to have, and since C.C. has an goal to achieve(about which we know nothing about), perhaps she thought it would come in handy.

[Juvyniled]

I just have a question(s):

1) Is it somewhat of a coincidence that Lelouch managed to get his hands on Gawain, being as it is, a TWO seater frame? I see this kind of as a loophole for the directors to give an upgraded frame to Lelouch without having to have him pilot it directly.

2) Are there any other two seater frames out there? I mean currently in existence or in the past, not after the Gawain.

[Juvyniled]

Originally Posted by Skyfall

At any rate - it is an useful ability to have, and since C.C. has an goal to achieve(about which we know nothing about), perhaps she thought it would come in handy.

Indubitably.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by D a m i e n

1 more crap episode like this one and i wont concider this show worth my time anymore.

What do they call your kind again? The type the leaves hateful messages without reasons? I know it ends with 'roll'...

Why can't I remember...

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

1) Is it somewhat of a coincidence that Lelouch managed to get his hands on Gawain, being as it is, a TWO seater frame? I see this kind of as a loophole for the directors to give an upgraded frame to Lelouch without having to have him pilot it directly.

2) Are there any other two seater frames out there? I mean currently in existence or in the past, not after the Gawain.

The Gawain is a command unit (and the only known two-seater in history) - and, according to Fake Okouchi, it's laden with electronic warfare systems (with the 'Druid' sensor/analysis system - presumably the successor to the 'Factsphere' model). So it's no surprise if it's a two-seater.

One pilot to manage the movements and keep the Gawain out of harm's way - and a copilot/electronics officer/commander to man the armaments, C4ISR (Command, Control, Communications, Computers, Intelligence, Surveillance & Reconnaissance) and study the battlefield. I surmise the top seat was destined to Schneizel himself, as he doesn't seem the belligerent/fighting, Cornelia-type. Just more like Lelouch - sit back and gives orders (while being directly on the front lines, of course).


The Gawain's size might be also required because a larger Yggdrasil Drive is needed (to power the Float system and handle the power drain caused by the quite large hadron cannons) and room is needed for the Druid System.


P.S. Juvy, there's the edit button if you wish to make additions to your comments and avoid double posting. If you want to multi-quote, then click on the 'multi-quote' buttons of the posts you wish to reply to. And on the last one, click 'quote' (not 'multi-quote') to open the interface. And then erase the unneeded.

[RequiemofChoas]

I thought they were planing on taking Tokyo? It kind of cofuse me that Lulu is willing enough to attack Headqurters but I know that he is willing enough to save Suzaku.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I thought there was a fansub translation error, and that in reality CC didn't even get on the plane?
(Can people versed in Japanese verify this please?)

OMNI, whom I'm sure is well versed in Japanese, in his summary stated that CC apologizes to Lelouch for what happened to the Chinese Federation so I assume that she did talk to them and negotiations failed. Lelouch tells her not to worry as he's more focused on other issues.

After all, the only way CC could have came back in time to kill Mao is if she didn't take the trip. Lulu then said "don't worry, the meeting is/will be rescheduled".
(Once again, I would be happy for verification)

Well let's just assume that Britannia has some very fast airplanes

Oh, and I agree the Chinese Federation isn't ready for an all out war yet. However it would be a mistake to assume the failure of this particular operation implies any general weakness in the CF military prowess as a whole.
The desire of CF to delay open hostilities with Britannia means there is only so much assistance they can offer the Japanese rebel forces.

Guess what I am trying to say, is the CF might not be as powerless against a Britannia onslaught as one might think.

Agreed. There's no way they could've commited enough forces for an actual large scale invasion since their excuse was that it was only humatarian aid. To commit a larger force would be difficult on the Chinese.

[Juvyniled]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

P.S. Juvy, there's the edit button if you wish to make additions to your comments and avoid double posting. If you want to multi-quote, then click on the 'multi-quote' buttons of the posts you wish to reply to. And on the last one, click 'quote' (not 'multi-quote') to open the interface. And then erase the unneeded.

I suppose I should do that. I've been getting lazy with it and using multiple posts when convenient, and sometimes other comments come immediately after I post my initial comment. :/

[quina]

About CC and Chinese Negotiation
CC did go to China and do the negotiation. However they don't accept the condition. The reason why Lulu sent CC is that he trust her and she is a stuck up type. He don't want Black Knight to end up like the fake japan army in ep 20 who end up being just pawn of Chinese. and yeah, she can speak Chinese too.

About China and Britania
I think China and Britania rightnow is in a state of cold war. they are trying to expand influence to other country (like in ep20) instead of going head to head with one another.

About United State of Japan
Zero is trying to declare Japan independent from Britania starting from Tokyo. As some of you might know.. he will...

Spoiler:

he will declare the USJ in ep 23 when Euphie's special zone is totally trashed..

[Juvyniled]

United State of Japan .... Blah, that is such a denigrating term -_-;

Anywho I do agree that it is something similar to the whole war between democracy and communism, and how they're just trying to spread their influence. But if Japan ends up as a puppet to China, they'll only be forced to fight against the Britannians which is no better than the state they are in currently.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

But if Japan ends up as a puppet to China, they'll only be forced to fight against the Britannians which is no better than the state they are in currently.

which is why lulu didnt join the fake japan army in this ep and opt to destroy it (gaining more outside support) and create his own united state ~

[Azure22]

A few things:

Anywho I do agree that it is something similar to the whole war between democracy and communism, and how they're just trying to spread their influence. But if Japan ends up as a puppet to China, they'll only be forced to fight against the Britannians which is no better than the state they are in currently.

Are we sure China is still communist? For all we know, it's still under the dynastic system just like how Brittania is still an absolute monarchy. I wouldn't be surprised if, in this world, Mao Zedong never got his chance. Come to think of it... How long would it have taken Brittania to pwn the rest of the European continent? There's a chance that marxism never even came to exist, and that democracy has been totally forgotten with the Athenian experiment... But wait, didn't Japan have a parliament before Brittania pwned them? Ah, I hope some sort of book comes out and explains the history of the CG world. Though I agree that it's probably a Cold War stance between Brittania and the Chinese Federation.

While we're thinking of the Cold War, any idea if there was any kind of arms race involving nuclear weapons in the CG world? Maybe in this world, nukes were never used/fully developed, even. That could contribute to the reliance on poison gas and Knightmare Frames in the CG World.

In any case even Lulu takes less than 5 sec to recognize the control of Gawain...why can't CC? She already kick ass in every way. We currently know that she can teleport (VV teleport Susaku, Lulu, Kallen, Euphie out of the blast. So CC most likely be able to do it?), expert in spying technique, expert in hand-to-hand combat, expert in mountain biking, she can draw, she can swim, she can pilot and she can kick lulu around his bed.....is there anything she can't do here?

...Woah, she can teleport? When the Order of the Black Knights was searching for Lelouch, then, why did she speak up and tell them where Lelouch was, rather than fetching him herself? It's quicker, saves time, and she doesn't have to talk to the dude who called her a "lazy bitch." Maybe it takes a lot out of her to teleport? Who knows...

But on a sour note, I hate people like Diethard. His name almost translates into 'die-hard' and that is essentially what he is - one of those reporters who just loves to dig up scandalous or controversial stuff regardless of the effect those events have upon others. They don't live to help others, they just wallow in other people's misfortunes.

To that, I have this to say: Diethard isn't portrayed particularly favorably in the anime, but his type isn't bad. I don't think he wallows in other peoples misfortunes, he observes the world, takes it all in, and records it. It's a beautiful thing, when one considers it: dedicating one's own life time to making sure that era is remembered for all of mankind. And when you say "he loves to dig up scandalous or controversial stuff regardless of the effect those events have on other" is a good thing. If reporters only got stories that made everyone happy or didn't offend or worry anyone, we'd be a much more ignorant people than we already are, don't you think? There are going to be stories that are going to harm people, and there are going to be reporters out there who ruin a persons career, or even their life, getting a story out to the public, but if that's the case, isn't it something the public needs to know? Say reporting on the Jack Abramoff scandal. Keeping that under wraps wouldn't have ruined his life, but now it's out there and we can see how corrupt the American congress can become. It's important to know these kinds of things, in both a democracy, where the information provided to us allows us to choose who should hold public office, or in a monarchy, where underground media can be used to inspire rebellion.

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by Azure22

Are we sure China is still communist? For all we know, it's still under the dynastic system just like how Brittania is still an absolute monarchy.

The Emperor himself, in his speech at Clovis' funeral, qualified the Chinese Federation as a regime where "wealth was equally distributed". Two big hints here. Maybe not communism as we know of it in our world, but there's one conclusion we...readily make here.

While we're thinking of the Cold War, any idea if there was any kind of arms race involving nuclear weapons in the CG world? Maybe in this world, nukes were never used/fully developed, even. That could contribute to the reliance on poison gas and Knightmare Frames in the CG World.

Nukes haven't been invented yet. And it's a 17-year-old that, on her own (congrats on the realism, btw ), manages to find that certain uranium isotopes produce energy while splitting...
And for now we still don't know whether there is an arm race of sorts going around...aside of course, for the multipedal, armored vehicles. Britannia has KFs, China has those weird tricycle weapon platforms and the Middle East has some huge tracked fortresses that, just like the Chinese Gan Ruu, don't seem worth squat.

...Woah, she can teleport? When the Order of the Black Knights was searching for Lelouch, then, why did she speak up and tell them where Lelouch was, rather than fetching him herself? It's quicker, saves time, and she doesn't have to talk to the dude who called her a "lazy bitch." Maybe it takes a lot out of her to teleport? Who knows...

That has not been ascertained at all. V.V.'s abilities might differ from C.C.'s. For now we have little understanding of what C.C. can do. We already know she has, to some point, the ability to meddle with the psyche or someone else's mind (telepathy, 'mind-rape', Geass-activating), which is why she cannot use the Geass for herself.

Spoiler:

She can only activate it on another person (as everybody has a dormant Geass within).

Besides, due to C.C.'s peculiar nature...

Spoiler:

She once was human but no longer is...which means she might not be the same as V.V, whose nature/race/role is still kept under wraps.

It's hard to say what she can and cannot do. Had she been able to teleport, why didn't she zap away when Mao wanted to play Texas Chainsaw Massacre on her?

[Azure22]

That has not been ascertained at all. V.V.'s abilities might differ from C.C.'s. For now we have little understanding of what C.C. can do. We already know she has, to some point, the ability to meddle with the psyche or someone else's mind (telepathy, 'mind-rape', Geass-activating), which is why she cannot use the Geass for herself.

VV is the white haired... person? oo; Wait, I seem to have gotten myself lost... So this VV is reponsible for getting Zero and the others of the island and out of the way of the Hadron cannon? Where'd this tidbit come from? And why only four people? oo

EDIT: How do we know

Spoiler:

that CC used to be human, too?

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by Azure22

VV is the white haired... person? oo; Wait, I seem to have gotten myself lost... So this VV is reponsible for getting Zero and the others of the island and out of the way of the Hadron cannon? Where'd this tidbit come from? And why only four people? oo

EDIT: How do we know

Spoiler:

that CC used to be human, too?

To your questions, there are two answers that complement each other.
- We keep a close eye on magazine scans (Animedia, Animage, Newtype, Pash!, etc) and interesting pieces of information strewn throughout the pages.
- An anonymous CG staff member with the screen name 'Fake Okouchi' has taken the habit to show up on the 2chan message boards and have his own Q&A session (before the episode airs...then he goes offline for the rest of the week) with fellow users. He has been, for quite some time already, releasing spoilers that have nearly all been confirmed (as it seems that the staff sometimes make last-minute changes and decisions)...thus disspelling any suspicion of his being an impersonator or a liar. And he is one of our most reliable/interesting spoiler sources.

Just head to the Spoiler & Speculation thread for more info; for now, let's give the thread back to those who are interested in ep20. No need to derail the topic.

And, btw, C.C. was talking to V.V. (as Fake Okouchi confirmed it) in ep19, berating him for "his prank", which "forced her to deal with those idiots" (reference to Tamaki and Co.).

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by quina

Lulu have no problem piloting
According to producer interview Lulu actually trains for it even before the series begin. Every year in the school festival he would also join the knightmare piloting related event as well. However this yeah (ep 21), someone else with ace pilot class is going to do it.... you know who :3

CC and her pilot skill
One point to note is that Gawain is developed using technology extracted from Research the Ancient. (it specificly said so in ep 19). If CC is one of the Ancient, she might not have problem learning the interface and deal with piloting. (I also suspect that the first KMF might also be from ancient tech, but story didn't mention it).

In any case even Lulu takes less than 5 sec to recognize the control of Gawain...why can't CC? She already kick ass in every way. We currently know that she can teleport (VV teleport Susaku, Lulu, Kallen, Euphie out of the blast. So CC most likely be able to do it?), expert in spying technique, expert in hand-to-hand combat, expert in mountain biking, she can draw, she can swim, she can pilot and she can kick lulu around his bed.....is there anything she can't do here?

That was my whole point as well. If we assume that C.C. an ancient the people who created the technology in use, than her knowing basic piloting skills wouldnt be a surprise. Also, from what i can tell C.C. reflexes and coordination seems better than a human key points in piloting any assault craft. Either way Im pretty sure their are a few surprises in store for us before this season ends.

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

United State of Japan .... Blah, that is such a denigrating term -_-;

Anywho I do agree that it is something similar to the whole war between democracy and communism, and how they're just trying to spread their influence. But if Japan ends up as a puppet to China, they'll only be forced to fight against the Britannians which is no better than the state they are in currently.

China and Britannia definitively resemble a cold war stance. I get the feeling if they went to all out war nothing would survive. Too me its a like a chess game just on globule scale. I think China sees an opportunity in Japan due to Zero recent successes over Britannia. Just because they beaten once does not mean they wont stop testing the waters. Crush the head of the snake first! then you dont have worry about it bite

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by D a m i e n

1 more crap episode like this one and i wont concider this show worth my time anymore.

Would you care to share you opinion on why you thought the episode was crap. I could deal with opinion if you at least offered some explanation