[Manga] Naruto Chapter 631 Discussion Thread

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by HiddenMessage

Everyone involved in wars are held responsible. My point is the guards weren't "innocent". I wasn't saying who's at fault.

Saying “They were on the offensive first” about one of two parties that intend to fight each other (Sasuke’s group & Samurai guards) is pretty much blaming them. But it’s good if you admit that the samurais just did their duties to guard the place and not evil by any stretch of imagination.

Also, there's no war between Sasuke's group and the samurais. The event was simply "Sasuke crashing the meeting for his personal revenge purpose" while the samurais fought and guarding the place (from Sasuke) like any good guard does.

[Kowai]

I don't know if I feel power trolled or just hyper-aware this is a cartoon story written for pre-pubecent boys.

But maybe kishi is just rushing things since he just wants to be done with the "naruto" story and move onto something else.

Or at least will throw a twist in there somewhere later on for godsake...

[itachi-san314]

i dont get the comments about kishi rushing things. this war has been going on FOREVER. think of how long just edo-madara has been around. then we had a couple very long flashbacks involving obito and madara and hashirama. i think people are confusing significant events occurring with a fast pace. it's true that this is the end though, so the frequency of significant events is bound to increase regardless of pacing

[Xagzan]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

i dont get the comments about kishi rushing things. this war has been going on FOREVER. think of how long just edo-madara has been around. then we had a couple very long flashbacks involving obito and madara and hashirama. i think people are confusing significant events occurring with a fast pace. it's true that this is the end though, so the frequency of significant events is bound to increase regardless of pacing

Yeah. Forever for us. For the characters in the story it's been like a day.

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

no the underlying reason for the hate is that this is a FIGHTING SHONEN series. Fan want to see characters fight, they want to see them see them beat up villians. For a fighter to do nothing but sit on the sidelines and play support seems very weak compared ot off of their peers; more like a character more suited to the role of a damsel in distress than a fighter.

I don't disagree with you, yet what you describe here is really frustration that should be directed at the author, not the character per se. Thats why I think many people are mostly frustrated with her inability to let go of her feelings for Sasuke, and fall for Naruto who's been nothing but good to her; it sounds more like a plausible reason to resent her to me. I would've loved to see much more of Neji for example, but that doesn't make me resent his character at all. Anyway, it seems you will be getting some of what you yearned for in Sakura in the coming chapters, though you more than likely feel that its too little, and too late.

In regards to this being a fighting shounen series, I'm always surprised (and amused) by how many fans come out the woodwork when there is but a hint of romance between the characters. We had quite an entertaining weekly thread back when Naruto merely held Hinata's hand. With all the enthusiasm over that, you'd almost think it was a blatant sex scene if you didn't read the chapter yet. I saw members post then that I probably haven't seen post in months.

Originally Posted by james0246

I'd think that would fairly obvious. Romance is an extremely humanizing agent for series/works were everyone has magical and godly powers. An audience, almost any audience, can actually understand romance, whereas the ethos and pathos for the why of fighting can sometimes be inexplicable, exhausting, or even simply stupid. That being said, we can all get a little too preoccupied with the romantic element (especially in series like Naruto, were said element is often mere fodder to the actual story).

I agree, though I didn't mean to say that no one should pay attention to romance at all. Its just that some people really seem to be taking romance in this manga a bit too seriously as you say, as if it was the actual genre of the manga. I mean, everyone's free to read it for whatever reason, but its seems quite obvious that romance isn't placed on a very high priority in a story like this.

Its similar to watching Death Note for fight scenes and complaining about the author not taking them seriously enough. They're present here and there, but if you're really looking for fighting, Death Note probably wouldn't be an ideal choice. Anyway, to each their own, but we are talking about getting worked up over romance scenarios between ~15/16 years olds here (not saying you in particular).

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

it's believable. i dont really have a problem with it, i would have just liked her to win at least one other impressive fight along the way and more on her own than the sasori one

That would've been great; there are several people I would've loved to see more of in this story. Furthermore, I also think it would have been better to have had Naruto and Sasuke “bump heads” more than they did throughout the story, like when Sasuke fought Kakashi. It would've been a very good, competitive fight had they fought around the time Sasuke just left Orochimaru.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Xagzan

Yeah. Forever for us. For the characters in the story it's been like a day.

haha yea that's true of course. i guess it depends on how you want to look at things. time to us or time to the characters. sasuke has certainly undergone way too massive changes over too short a period of time in relation to the characters. i wasn't responding to that sentiment since i agree with it. maybe i was jumping to conclusions about what people meant as far as kishi rushing things. anyhoo, if some people meant that the current few chapters have been too many crazy things at once then i disagree. i think the past few chapters have started summing things up nicely

[Crassa]

Couldn't agree more, I'm just hoping Kishi will keep up the pace for the next chapter.

[Gintokifan22]

I've never posted in this section before but I've been keeping up with this series for a while now and let me say this chapter was a big F u to the fans who've been reading since chapter 1. What the heck is up with Sasuke?? Oh we all know Kishi loves the man, why did he make a series about Naruto in the first place? He could have had it been about his man crush Sasuke UGH!! Lets not forget the big screw you to Hinata, the woman whos been by his side since the start and has tried to help him the entire War, no he'd rather get with the woman who he knows whos been in love with Sasuke since whoever the heck knows for who knows why.

Now, if NarutoxHinata happens it will be like shes his second choice cuz he couldn't get with Sakura, I feel sorry for the girl. Kishi just doesn't know how to write romance at all, SakuraxNaruto came out of no where.

Whats with Sakura coming out of the blue and being powerful??? I always thought Kishi hated her this entire time, he'd forget about her and hasn't used her till now. I'd understand if he did things with her the entire War and let her train more to become this but what the heck?? Seriously??

I'm sorry, right now I don't know if I can even continue with this series any more.

[Bakaizer]

All i can say

butthurt fans, butthurt fans everywhere


i dont really care who naruto ends up with,
you always expect the unexpected

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Midnight Commander

Thats why I think many people are mostly frustrated with her inability to let go of her feelings for Sasuke, and fall for Naruto who's been nothing but good to her; it sounds more like a plausible reason to resent her to me. I would've loved to see much more of Neji for example, but that doesn't make me resent his character at all. Anyway, it seems you will be getting some of what you yearned for in Sakura in the coming chapters, though you more than likely feel that its too little, and too late.

In regards to this being a fighting shounen series, I'm always surprised (and amused) by how many fans come out the woodwork when there is but a hint of romance between the characters. We had quite an entertaining weekly thread back when Naruto merely held Hinata's hand. With all the enthusiasm over that, you'd almost think it was a blatant sex scene if you didn't read the chapter yet. I saw members post then that I probably haven't seen post in months.

i think most (but not all) fans who despise sakura either think she's useless or annoying because they couldn't seem to get why naruto would fall for someone like her when he has a devoted hinata just waiting to be noticed. so i agree with your assumption about fans getting overly obsessed about the romance in this series. the shipping in this manga is horrible, but incredibly entertaining for some reason.

i don't have anything against sakura though, it's kishi who murdered her character and if she does something useful and worthwhile this time around then i'd say it's long overdue. but i don't expect much. i have long accepted the fact that the female characters in this series take a back seat to the males. i guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Shay]

Originally Posted by Kowai

But maybe kishi is just rushing things since he just wants to be done with the "naruto" story and move onto something else.

Please god I hope so!

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Shay

HAHAHA, Saskue trolling hard! Love it.

Really liked this chapter. The Old Kages make the new Kages look like children!

Go Team 7!!!!

Love it!

Considering that old Kages can't be killed and have limitless chakra... I'm not surprised.

[Birdway]

Cheesy.

Epic.... FAIL

I'm sure this must be on of the worst chapters of this series.

Sasuke, Naruto, Kishimoto... go home, you're drunk.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

i don't have anything against sakura though, it's kishi who murdered her character and if she does something useful and worthwhile this time around then i'd say it's long overdue. but i don't expect much. i have long accepted the fact that the female characters in this series take a back seat to the males. i guess we'll just have to wait and see.

it has been very long for the readers, but for the characters its been way shorter.

while chasing gaara, sakura mentions they have half a year left before orochimaru attempts to take sasukes body. then she moves on to fight sasori(2005).

sasuke overpowers orochimaru, the half year later, in 2007. (roughly 18 months our time since the sasori fight.)

from here it gets too complex but my breakdown goes as follows, keeping in mind that while the volumes are presented to us in succession, a lot of the events were taking place at roughly the same time:
sasuke vs deidara AND jiraiya vs pain - Fall 2007
sasuke vs itachi
sasuke with tobi AND news of jiraiyas death/naruto sage training
taka vs bee AND pain invasion
pain vs naruto
gokage summit
sasuke vs danzo
tutle island AND naruto birth flashbacks AND naruto fox training
war begins April 2011 (team asuma, edo kages, obito flashbacks etc) to May 2013.
6 long years since sasuke vs deidara
adding that first half year i mentioned, it could not have been more than what 7-9months from sasori to badass hokages in manga time right?...i really have no idea
ur right though. it feels long overdue cuz we had to wait those 6 years i suppose...

[bigdeal000]

Originally Posted by Midnight Commander

Just because she wasn't featured in any meaningful fights for a while doesn't necessarily mean she lacked the ability to be in a meaningful fight. Why is it not believable that she trained off camera for something we have yet to see since the Sasori fight?

Some people also love to condemn her for not going through with her plan killing Sasuke, yet this is far from the first time anything like this(someone who can't bring themselves to kill a loved one) happened in the story. Seems like the underlying reason for all the hate is that people desperately want her to “fall in love” with Naruto but it doesn't seem to be happening; she apparently still has some feelings for Sasuke. Why romance in this of all stories is so important to these people is beyond me : /

But a reminder that she's a powerfull fighter would have been nice from time to time, instead of making it feel like a complete asspull. I could also say you've never seen me swim, that doesn't mean I can't swim. Same logic, and guess what, I can't swim!
I don't care about her not killing Sasuke. I was dissapointed by how "not-ninja" these ninjas are too many times. Not being able to kill Sasuke...I had no expectations at that point, you know. As I said in a previous post, I never hated her until now. She was just background. Also, all I want is Naruto and Hinata. I would rage if Naruto actually ends up with Sakura, so I don't really understand your underlying reason. Hell, Sakura falling for Naruto now that Sasuke is finally back, would be an even bigger ..afda.fgsgh....

[Novecaudas]

I don't get it. Is he drunk when he writes this crap? Does he have several moronic plotlines scrawled on the floor, cut a chicken's head off and goes with the one closest to where the chicken dies? I mean we just went back about 600 chapters in a few pages. Kishi just activated the full retard gear.

For those of you complaining about the Sakura and Naruto "moment", if you can even call it that, it's perfectly understandable that Naruto goes back to "I love Sakura mode"; like most victims of domestic violence, he has difficulty freeing himself from the abusive partner and constantly makes up excuses for her behavior.

If Naruto actually listened to my advice, he'd ditch Sakura (violent bipolar girl) and Hinata (neurotic obssessive stalker girl) and shack up with Mei ( hot redhead girl). I think she's looking for a boytoy.

[Tettsuo]

Sasuke's turn to good will only make sense to me if later he goes insane like his predecessor.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Gintokifan22

I've never posted in this section before but I've been keeping up with this series for a while now and let me say this chapter was a big F u to the fans who've been reading since chapter 1. What the heck is up with Sasuke?? Oh we all know Kishi loves the man, why did he make a series about Naruto in the first place? He could have had it been about his man crush Sasuke UGH!!

I don't know that the author loves Sasuke, I'm in fact pretty sure that's not the case and that his creator had no idea what to do with the character which is why "Taka Sasuke" ended up to be utterly meaningless. More importantly I think you've missed the whole point Kishimoto made with Sasuke's new goal : his failure. That's the reason you see Naruto remembering Itachi's statement that the one acknowledged by everyone become Hokage right after Sasuke said that he didn't care about the opinion of any of them.
The author didn't take away from Naruto to throw a bone to Sasuke, he did just the opposite. He finished off Sasuke as an independent character to put him back into Naruto's narrative and effectively set him up for failure at the hand of Naruto.

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

Sasuke's turn to good will only make sense to me if later he goes insane like his predecessor.

It'll never make sense then because that would mean Naruto couldn't change the mistakes of the past and this can't happen because Naruto cannot fail.

[Souten no Seigyoku]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

i agree it will happen, but it doesnt mean sasuke will betray them or be bad. he will fight over the way he wants konoha to run and for the title of hokage much like madara and hashirama always fought when they were both still good (or at least when they both still fought for konoha and that ideal).

interesting thought... what if sakura becomes hokage? of the sannin, it was tsunade who did afterall. naruto could be a wandering sage like jiraiya and sasuke could leave and start his own uchiha village like orochimaru did with the sound.

Sasuke is evil. Let's recap shall we? Even allowing for killing Itachi because he did not know the truth.
-He killed Danzo.
-He basically said "I got off on it" to Kakashi & Co under the bridge
-He almost kills Karin and doesnt give a <bleep>
-He would've killed Sakura
-He tries killing Kakashi
-He chops Raikages arm off (but basically also tries to kill him)
-He tries to kill the marriage-crazed Mizu-kage
-Does he try to kill Naruto? I forget.
Oh and yes... after his encounter with edo-tensei Itachi, he reaffirms his beliefs and goals even after Itachi's final plea.

After all that, he's going to change because he heard Shodai's story? I call BS. It's more like Sasuke realized: You can't kill an idea. So he will play the good guy, then turn on them at the worst possible time to crush their spirit. You know, break them from the inside out.

[yogotah]

Originally Posted by Souten no Seigyoku

Sasuke is evil. Let's recap shall we? Even allowing for killing Itachi because he did not know the truth.
-He killed Danzo.
-He basically said "I got off on it" to Kakashi & Co under the bridge
-He almost kills Karin and doesnt give a <bleep>
-He would've killed Sakura
-He tries killing Kakashi
-He chops Raikages arm off (but basically also tries to kill him)
-He tries to kill the marriage-crazed Mizu-kage
-Does he try to kill Naruto? I forget.
Oh and yes... after his encounter with edo-tensei Itachi, he reaffirms his beliefs and goals even after Itachi's final plea.

After all that, he's going to change because he heard Shodai's story? I call BS. It's more like Sasuke realized: You can't kill an idea. So he will play the good guy, then turn on them at the worst possible time to crush their spirit. You know, break them from the inside out.

Sorry to jump into your converstations, but I just wanted to add my two cents since Sasuke happens to be my favorite character in Naruto, I kinda of had some knowledge ( not that it's secret, or unknown knowledge) about how Kishi may and I emphasized may have written Sasuke in a way that the possibility of him completely changing from "evil" to "good" possible and coherent with the character and story.

The first thing I need to address is that Sasuke's action may be considered evil (they are certainly bad, but good people also may commit bad actions) but these evil acts were done in the journey for him to get the truth. After killing Itachi, Sasuke has been in a conquest to finding the truth, while on that journey, he's has mini goals that were based on the current information that he had. So statements like "killing everyone in the village", and " I will enjoy kiling you" were all under the context of whatever info he had during that time. Itachi has said to naruto that Sasuke is very influencable and very naiive. This inability to have a concrete view of reality has influenced Sasuke to act and behave in patterns that we may consisder "evil" but that doesn't make Sasuke evil himself does it? If someone is influenced to do something, then some of that blame is taken away right? an example would be someone that has a chemical imbalanced kills someone, can we call that person evil, even though he didn't have the abiity to judge his own actions?

I'm not really trying to get into a philosophical debate on the question of free will and evil, I'm just making a point that Sasuke may have been so naiive that he was influenced to do acts ( which may be considered evil, but can be argued otherwise since killing Danzo may have been a good thing) and somehow that this isn't his fault or that he justified enough to become eligible to become a good guy again. We've been shown that the sharingan is awakened by trauma, and is in some way the consequence of a chemical imbalance in the brain. Can Sasuke really be blamed or his "I live in the darkness" days if it is determined to be a consequence of trauma and chemical inbalances in his brain. I again want to say that his actions weren't even that bad, talking and doing are very different things..him saying that he wants to kill everyone in Konoha and him actually doing it are very different and are on different levels of what we may call evil. Him saying something doesn't even prove the full intent of his voluntary processes of doing that.

Even Naruto has said some agregious things during his anger, but we never blame him for his irrational little comment that he makes somehow rarely.

It is possible that after hearing the whole truth Sasuke has been permanently influenced to believe that he has to protect Itachi's ideals and, in that sense, becoming Hokage can become a legitimate response..however crazy or surprising...or unrealistic

I don't see betraying them anytime soon..it could happen but if my synopsis is right, then he won't be able to be influenced to go the other way again, he has full knowledge and has accepted his new task.

Though your scenario would be interesting, and is most likely a scenario more believable a few chapters back. and I may be completely wrong, and his chemical imbalances may shift into more incomprehensible patterns and he may go crazy for coco puff and betray naruto.

(sigh) lol it is really hard to try to understand crazy psycopaths, isn't it?

Anyway sorry to butt in, just wanted to share a couple of my insights (not that they are any more legitimate than others of course)