Marimite S2 Ep.06 (official thread)

[Takemi_Ikazuchi]

I won't say much...

SUPER Rosa Gigantea returns
Sei goes into hyper animation mode again (ref: winter episode season 1)
and everyone is so darn pretty... it's just so wrong... these eyes are unworthy

[kj1980]

Yes Super Rosa Gigantea indeed makes an appearance, and several times too.

This episode was really heart-warming, even though I read it in the novel, they did a superb job in portraying this chapter in this episode. Too bad there wasn't the scene where Sei unties a first year student's tie when Shimako was taking care of that garden...

However, they really impressed me on how they portrayed the story into three parts: first half from Shimako's point of view, second half from Sei's point of view, and the last from third-person. I was wondering how they were going to do the interchanging points of view as in the novel, but Ms Chiaki (screen writer for this episode) did a fantastic job in making this episode stand out as a preview of what's to come...

Noriko and Touko finally appears in the next episode!! wa-i

[kj1980]

By the way, if the dialogue at the preview for the next episode was too fast for you, Yoshino was basically introducing Anton Chekhov's "The Cherry Orchard."

The dialogue went something like this:

Yoshino: "A huge landowner in southern Russia by the name of Madame Ranevskaya lived in Paris with her lover after her husband passed away. However, she was deceived by her lover and decided to return to her old land as her finances depleted. But even that land was put on collateral and it was apparent that bankruptcy hung over her head. This is a story that portrays the fall of the old landed gentry and the aristocracy while seeing the rise of the new bourgeoisie class."

Sachiko: "That is 'The Cherry Orchard,' Yoshino. Please do not give out a preview for a different story"

Shimako: "No, my current heart's intuition is the same as Chekhov's. Good-bye the old life, hurrah to the new!!

Yumi: "Next 'Maria-sama ga Miteru' episode: 'Cherry Blossom' "

Sachiko: "It seems as Shimako will encounter certain turn of events..."

[Nork22]

Yay!!!! That was rather nice despite not understanding a lot of it.

But now I can't wait to see Noriko and Touko!!

[oink]

It is good to understand japanese.......... I am still waiting for the version with subtitle........ hmm

[Hikata]

Originally Posted by oink

It is good to understand japanese.......... I am still waiting for the version with subtitle........ hmm

Yups, we're working on it. Please be patient.
We have inside problem in Marimite group.
This episode probably wouldnt come out until end of this week or next week.

Here's little info on where we are just now:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=17748

[Asynca]

Originally Posted by kj1980

By the way, if the dialogue at the preview for the next episode was too fast for you, Yoshino was basically introducing Anton Chekhov's "The Cherry Orchard."

The dialogue went something like this:

Yoshino: "A huge landowner in southern Russia by the name of Madame Ranevskaya lived in Paris with her lover after her husband passed away. However, she was deceived by her lover and decided to return to her old land as her finances depleted. But even that land was put on collateral and it was apparent that bankruptcy hung over her head. This is a story that portrays the fall of the old landed gentry and the aristocracy while seeing the rise of the new bourgeoisie class."

Sachiko: "That is 'The Cherry Orchard,' Yoshino. Please do not give out a preview for a different story"

Shimako: "No, my current heart's intuition is the same as Chekhov's. Good-bye the old life, hurrah to the new!!

Yumi: "Next 'Maria-sama ga Miteru' episode: 'Cherry Blossom' "

Sachiko: "It seems as Shimako will encounter certain turn of events..."

Wai! I thought that Yumi was giving some sort of metaphorical spin on the next episode and Sachiko (it was her speaking?) was just not getting it. I missed the "Chekhov" and "Ranevskaya" reference. Argh! I hate it when katakana isn't English! That's annoying because I thought Yumi was refering to Sei as being Shimako's 'husband' and Noriko as being her 'lover'. I suppose that IS exactly the reference there, but a little more metaphorically than I originally hoped

[Ayumu Kasuga ^oSaKa^]

Thanks a LOT! for the EP 06!
We Love You Ayu! ^O^!

[baik!]

not much to tear up about, but the 'holding hands' part opened the floodgates. *blush*

i would have thought that the white roses meeting story would be all flowery and sweet, but it was completely the opposite! rather surprised to see sei so shy about something, and so aggresive. but i guess that particular batch of first year students had it rough, eh? yumi-chan with her rocky start with sachiko, yoshino and the yellow rose revolution, and shimako with sei being uncomfortable with her initially.

i enjoyed the interaction between sei and youko. the previous episode helped shape the relationship, and this one added some gravy to it. thanks alot for another wonderful episode of marimite, Ayu team!

i have a question, though:

Spoiler:

the sachiko/sei showdown in the corridor, sachiko smiles after the encounter. does that mean that the 'shimako as sachiko's souer' event was a devious plan of the red roses? or was the smile a resignation of defeat? shimako explains in season one that she did reject sachiko, so.....

another thing which i have been wondering for a while, recalled this question after seeing the first-years get their rosaries. you have your own rosary, and if you have an onee-sama then you have hers? so for instance, youko would be wearing super rosa chinensis' rosary (i'm assuming she still does), sachiko would be wearing youko's rosary, and yumi-chan would be wearing two (sachiko's and her own)? that would mean that any unattached student who previously had a onee-sama (i.e. shimako at the moment) would ultimately need to wear two rosaries around her neck (one around her wrist, actually )? because i recall sachiko whipping out her rosary for yumi at only their second encounter (in the bara no yakata, after yumi got clotheslined)..... she was carrying both her own and youko's rosary? and sei taking a peek into yumi-chan's uniform, no rosary there, which means yumi doesn't wear her own rosary? i'm rather confused.

[Cichlisuite]

I believe there not rosaries, they look like normal necklaces to me.

[mintyfresh]

Originally Posted by Cichlisuite

I believe there not rosaries, they look like normal necklaces to me.

No, I'm pretty sure they're rosaries. They seem to have all the necesary parts and divisions (mysteries).
The only thing wrong with the whole rosary thing is that everyone (save Shimako) wears it around their neck, which is a big no no (I remember being scolded about that all the time when I was a child ). But just like how it is in the real world, I'm sure the girls at Lillian don't really care. Unless they're devout Catholics, that is -- then they'd probably know better.

Anyhow, as for the inheritance of rosaries, I'm guessing you only acquire one when you become a person's souer. For example, Yumi's rosary used to belong to Sachiko, which used to belong to Youko, which used to belong to Youko's oneesama, and so on and so forth.

Anyhow, that's how I understand it. ...I hope they wash the things..

This long line of rosary inheritance may not be the case for students out of the Yamayurikai, however. I'm sure there are instances of "first generation rosaries" all the time.

[Bracken33]

Originally Posted by baik!

not much to tear up about, but the 'holding hands' part opened the floodgates. *blush*

Hehe, you are "built close to water" , as we say here in germany.

Spoiler for baik!:

the sachiko/sei showdown in the corridor, sachiko smiles after the encounter. does that mean that the 'shimako as sachiko's souer' event was a devious plan of the red roses? or was the smile a resignation of defeat? shimako explains in season one that she did reject sachiko, so.....

I think you are right. I was also wondering if this was planned. But I didn´t see this clear hint when I first watched it.
Don´t know if it was Shimako´s idea or Youko´s.

Originally Posted by mintyfresh

Anyhow, as for the inheritance of rosaries, I'm guessing you only acquire one when you become a person's souer. For example, Yumi's rosary used to belong to Sachiko, which used to belong to Youko, which used to belong to Youko's oneesama, and so on and so forth.

Well, don´t know if my memory serves me right, but I think kj1980 lighted this up in another thread. If I remember correctly the different rose families or roses have different ways to pass on their rosaries.

Spoiler:

Some seem to pass on the same rosary, others buy a new one. So it seems to vary.

I couldn´t find it with a quick search, perhaps you can. Forgot the details...

Hope we can see more of Shimako. I really like this character.

[The_Dreamer]

Nice job, Ayu. If Youko orchestrated all that then she's even more brilliant than I thought she was. XD New characters next episode, yay!

[Portable]

Originally Posted by Bracken33

Hope we can see more of Shimako. I really like this character.

If there is anything you need to worry about, it is not this. If anything, season two contains too much Shimako. I say this even though I think Shimako is an excellent character. Luckily, episode ten finally focuses on someone else.

[mintyfresh]

Originally Posted by Portable

If there is anything you need to worry about, it is not this.

You can say that again..
Shimako definitely becomes something of a main character within the next 3 episdoes (Yumi roughly has 2 lines in ep 9). But I believe it's a good thing, seeing as for a good amount of the first season, I was dying to see more of her. Granted, by the end of the Cherry Blossom arc, I was sorta starting to miss Yumi.. So hard to please am I.. ^^;

Well, anyhow, we already know that that's over (on the raw side of things, anyhow), and that the show will go back to focusing on the rest of the cast. What with the next episode being Kibara chuu-i hou, and then ep 11 being Rainy Blue (apparently, it looks like it'll all be smushed into one episode) so the yellow rose and red rose family will get their time in the spotlight, too.

[Sharkbark]

Originally Posted by kj1980

Too bad there wasn't the scene where Sei unties a first year student's tie when Shimako was taking care of that garden...

Ok, now THIS I have to hear about

Originally Posted by mintyfresh

What with the next episode being Kibara chuu-i hou, and then ep 11 being Rainy Blue (apparently, it looks like it'll all be smushed into one episode) so the yellow rose and red rose family will get their time in the spotlight, too.

Aww, is this true? It's kind of a shame, I was hoping that they would take more time with Rainy Blue :\ . I mean I thought it was at least an entire novel for that part alone... I'd hate to see them rush it, especially after spending so many episodes on the graduation arc (which I loved by the way, but it seems slightly less important than Rainy Blue). So far they've done a really good job of everything though, so maybe I should just trust them ^_^; .

Thanks Ayu, great episode as always!

[The Yellow Dwarf]

Originally Posted by Bracken33

I think you are right. I was also wondering if this was planned. But I didn´t see this clear hint when I first watched it.
Don´t know if it was Shimako´s idea or Youko´s.

IIRC, Shimako rejected Sachiko's offer in the first episode, so when Sei and Sachiko have that confrontation Sachiko's probably already been rejected. If that's the case, then Sachiko's probably just smiling because Sei's finally decided to take in Shimako, whom would become a great asset to the Yamayurikai. But the conversation between Youko and Sei at the school festival seems to point to a sinister plot by a certain member of the roses.

Well, don´t know if my memory serves me right, but I think kj1980 lighted this up in another thread. If I remember correctly the different rose families or roses have different ways to pass on their rosaries.

I remember that post as well, though personally I think Sei's just didn't have another rosary on hand since she sort of decided to make Shimako her imouto quite suddenly.

To be honest, I enjoyed ep. 6 quite a lot (much much more than the somewhat boring two episodes before it), even though it's got a lot to do with the snobbish "ha I was right!" moments that I had.

To be honest though, while this episode echoes quite nicely with ep. 11 of first season, some parts are really quite lacking. Similar to ep. 11, it seems that there are just way too many unnecessary inner thoughts spilled here and there, which add nothing but distracting noises to the show.

A lot of lines (particularly the dialogue from Sei and Youko) are spoken way too fast and without feelings, as if the voice actresses are trying to speed through their lines to fit everything into 25 minutes. Sei's explosive angry act feels slightly out of character (though it is understandable why she would act that way); but most disappointingly, the cat scene - which has the potential for some really bittersweet irony - is delivered with the subtlety of a sledgehammer. >_<

The beginning and the ending are really nice though. I really like Shimako's comment on the changing season and such. I particularly like how Shimako is lagging behind Yoshino and Yumi when the three of them are walking. Although the whole "new Rosa Gigantea" discussion is again a little too ham-fisted for me.

Overall, I think this is a pretty good episode in the series, though IMHO a lot of its impact requires the viewer to have seen the Shiori episode. It's one major flaw is that there are simply too many scenes and too many dialogues packed in 25 minutes it a lot of them feel rushed and bland.

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by Bracken33

Well, don´t know if my memory serves me right, but I think kj1980 lighted this up in another thread. If I remember correctly the different rose families or roses have different ways to pass on their rosaries.

Yes, but not limited to the roses. All the students at Lillian High have a tradition of soeur system - i.e. Minako-sama and Mami-san in the school newspaper.

[atua]

Originally Posted by The Yellow Dwarf

IIRC, Shimako rejected Sachiko's offer in the first episode, so when Sei and Sachiko have that confrontation Sachiko's probably already been rejected. If that's the case, then Sachiko's probably just smiling because Sei's finally decided to take in Shimako, whom would become a great asset to the Yamayurikai. But the conversation between Youko and Sei at the school festival seems to point to a sinister plot by a certain member of the roses.

Sachiko's already been rejected, since she asked Shimako after the Athletics Festival and the Sei/Sachiko scene occurs on another day (They're back in their school uniforms).

I'm not sure that Sachiko's smile was a knowing smile or a wry smile, but I'm personally leaning towards wry because I think Sachiko was just acting as Youko's (possibly unknowing) pawn in all of this. It's all too easy to imagine Youko subtly "encouraging" Sachiko to ask Shimako as her soeur in order to get a response from Sei. I suspect Youko has been aiming to get Sei to ask Shimako as her soeur from the moment Sei mentioned Shimako's name, especially given Youko's feelings about the whole Shiori affair.

Originally Posted by The Yellow Dwarf

To be honest though, while this episode echoes quite nicely with ep. 11 of first season, some parts are really quite lacking. Similar to ep. 11, it seems that there are just way too many unnecessary inner thoughts spilled here and there, which add nothing but distracting noises to the show.

A lot of lines (particularly the dialogue from Sei and Youko) are spoken way too fast and without feelings, as if the voice actresses are trying to speed through their lines to fit everything into 25 minutes. Sei's explosive angry act feels slightly out of character (though it is understandable why she would act that way); but most disappointingly, the cat scene - which has the potential for some really bittersweet irony - is delivered with the subtlety of a sledgehammer. >_<

Whilst this episode also reminded me of Season 1 Ep 11, it's also act as a prologue and background to the Noriko/Shimako relationship. Episode 9 in particular was very reminicent of this episode.

I guess I can understand that you did not enjoy the voiceovers, since that tends to be a matter of subjective taste (eg Blade Runner vs BR Director's Cut), but I think it works well in this episode because:
1) The voiceover allows the use of the more personal 1st person POV to create dramatic tension between Sei and Shimako, since the audience is only allowed to see one side of the story.
2) It's in character because they're both rather introspective people. (particularly Shimako)
3) It gives the audience some extra insight into the characters. (eg that Sei recognises Shimako as a kindred spirit)

As for Sei's show of anger, I felt that too was *completely* in character for her. The playful, flirtacious, confident Sei that we see most of the time only came about after meeting Yumi. Prior to their meeting, Sei's often moody, abrasive and aloof. In fact, I'm often still surprised by just how much Sei has changed in such a short time.

In addition, Youko was been quite provocative in inviting Shimako. Youko is well aware of just how unusual it is for Sei to take any interest in a kohai; enough interest that Sei bothered to find out the student's name. The only other time this happened was with Shiori. Sei saw this as an unwelcomed inteference by Youko in a personal and potentially painful matter.

[The Yellow Dwarf]

After watching the episode for a second time, I've come to the conclusion that: 2AM in the morning is suited for nothing but being comatose. I missed quite a lot of things because of the fatigue.

Originally Posted by atua

Whilst this episode also reminded me of Season 1 Ep 11, it's also act as a prologue and background to the Noriko/Shimako relationship. Episode 9 in particular was very reminicent of this episode.

Not so much that this episode reminds me of ep. 11 but rather that I find a number of parallels and quite obvious contrasts between the relationships of Sei with Shiori, Sei with Shimako, and the underplayed (but which annoyed me to no end) Sei with Supa Rosa Gigantea. The mood of this episode, as you've pointed out, is a lot different from Season 1 ep. 11, and has more in common with ep. 9 in both mood and its position in the larger narrative.

As for Sei's show of anger, I felt that too was *completely* in character for her. The playful, flirtacious, confident Sei that we see most of the time only came about after meeting Yumi. Prior to their meeting, Sei's often moody, abrasive and aloof. In fact, I'm often still surprised by just how much Sei has changed in such a short time.

After reading your post and seeing the episode for a second time, I'm beginning to agree with you a lot more. In fact, I find the conversation between Youko and Sei after Shimako has been booted out very characteristic of Sei. What caught me off guard was the intensity, the level of animation and the loudness with which Sei protested Shimako's presence in the room. The explosiveness of her anger reminds me (perhaps quite unduly) of Yoshino in ep. 7 in the 1st season, and not the restrained but sharp anger we've seen from Sei in ep. 11. Though to be honest, the very sudden transition of hot anger, her sudden remembrance of Shiori and the resulting (albeit slightly dramatized) anguish played out really well.

I guess I can understand that you did not enjoy the voiceovers, since that tends to be a matter of subjective taste (eg Blade Runner vs BR Director's Cut), but I think it works well in this episode because:
1) The voiceover allows the use of the more personal 1st person POV to create dramatic tension between Sei and Shimako, since the audience is only allowed to see one side of the story.
2) It's in character because they're both rather introspective people. (particularly Shimako)
3) It gives the audience some extra insight into the characters. (eg that Sei recognises Shimako as a kindred spirit)

I stand by my opinion that quite a bit of the internal narrative is unnecessary. Now don't get me wrong, I think a lot of the quiet introspections in the series (mostly by Sei and Shimako) are simply brilliant. For example, Shimako's reminiscence at beginning of this episode echoes and contrasts with Sei's internal monologue at the beginning of s1 e11, and the effect is not in the least bit lacking.

What I dislike a lot (in both this and s1e11) is the seeming insistence on a coherent time line that finds its way to make unnecessary lines. The best example I can think of: around 14min into this episode, Sei sits by the window and comments "that day, it was really quiet at the Rose Mansion," as if we couldn't see it ourselves. >_< I like hearing Sei and Shimako's reflections (and a lot of them are quite sharp), but sometimes the sentences just drag without any definite purpose. I guess I'm just too much a fan of silence and suggestion in movies/TV programs.

Although, there was a small revelation I had regarding the ending after a second viewing: I was so distraught after hearing the cheesy "new Rosa Gigantea" talk that I missed Shimako's line, "just call me by my name," which has a much, much more personal touch and makes the conclusion a lot more powerful.

It's probably because I'm natrually biased whenever the plot starts to involve Sei, but I find it very exciting that sometimes Marimite can be pretty complicated and ambiguous all of a sudden.