Anime Music vs Western Music (mainstream music)

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Professor Waldorf X

Anyway, your move.

Nope.

I can't justify a continuation of this argument between a man of logic with experience and a brick wall. As far as I'm concerned this conversation is too heated for the topic and thus inappropriate in this location. Thus I end it here.

[Professor Waldorf X]

Originally Posted by Traece

Nope.

I can't justify a continuation of this argument between a man of logic with experience and a brick wall. As far as I'm concerned this conversation is too heated for the topic and thus inappropriate in this location. Thus I end it here.

Says the brick wall who doesn't provide examples, thinks language and accents make new genres and thinks using the word "segregate" as a synonym to "separate" has no credibility while continuing to childishly use smilies despite them having no place in any sort of debate or argument.

If you have something to say in response, by all means, send me a PM and we can continue there. If not, I'm going to have to assume that you're only stopping now because you have run out of ways to prove your point and are pretending to take a high road when the debate was, in fact, in its proper place as the thread is about the difference between Japanese and western music and I am simply trying to figure out what the entire point of separating music of different nationalities for such arbitrary reason as some of the music in question being related to an entirely different entertainment medium.

[dasrune]

can't stand jpop or anime music for the most part. it seems like they take the worst music from previous decades recreate it and throw overly cute vocals on it sung by a woman probably in her mid 20s. on a side note professor waldorf x can you show me some examples of japanese music or jpop that deals with sex, drugs, and money id like to hear it just out of pure curiosity.

[SilverSyko]

I mostly only listen to game BGM's and themes.

But when it comes to Japanese vs Western music they're close to equal for me.

I think the Japanese side slightly wins.

Western music can be awesome too though. Ecpecially when it comes to the metal genre.~

[Kafriel]

I got a mix of both...from Metallica, Maiden and Rise against all the way to Utada, Ayumi, Flow and UVERworld. I also include classic music, traditional greek songs and old rock hits. 247 songs in total, at least in my mobile.

[chikorita157]

90% of the time I listen to Japanese Music and 10% of the time on Pop... most of today's western music aren't that great with a few exceptions, but I do like some of the western pop, but not emo, punk and rap.

Heck, most of the songs on my iPhone 3GS are J-pop, with the exception of Michael Jackson.

[Sheba]

Eurofag who likes most of the shit coming from Scandinavia. Especially productions by Ulver and Opeth.

Anyone who dare telling me that anime music is superior is ill-informed or clearly lack musical culture.

Listen to this and dare repeat what you said with a straight face:

Movies

Spoiler:

TV Series

Spoiler:

Video Games

Spoiler:

Because Harry Gregson William in not Japanese

Western music is not inferior. ;]

[Theowne]

Personally I find it amusing that terms like "anime music" and "western music" are seen to actually represent one, single concrete genre or style. My answer is, for the most part, neither, particularly since much of the anime music created today is influenced heavily by western styles of both today and the past, rock, pop, and etc.

If by "western music" people here actually mean the mainstream pop, rock, and rap music, then I'm not a fan. I find them too repetitive and simplistic for my tastes. As for anime music, much of it consists of similarly-repetitive pop tunes, I don't find the differences between the two mainstreams to be of much note, so I don't make much point of listening to these either. But of course, there are exceptions. I enjoy Western film scores very much, and of course there are a bunch of anime songs I like, such as those from Studio Ghibli films.

Considering the scope and diversity among these two pointless labels, I don't see the point in voting in this poll.

My favourite and most satisfying style of music will always be classical art music. Beethoven, Chopin, Bach....

[Chaho-Chi]

I'm more of a fan of western music, but I'm more addicted to BMG's and Vocaloid music, but I find 75% of all"Anime music" cheesy songs that don't make much sense with singers that most likely sound like crap on stage. >.>
The other 15% I find nice like Yui and other bands I yet haven't heard of but will sound nice.

[Professor Waldorf X]

Originally Posted by dasrune

on a side note professor waldorf x can you show me some examples of japanese music or jpop that deals with sex, drugs, and money id like to hear it just out of pure curiosity.

I'd happily do that, except I don't speak Japanese. I mean, I'm sure I could find some examples if I consulted a buddy of mine that used to obsess over Japanese music, but that might take a while as he's quite the recluse.

Anyway, I've come to this conclusion based on a few things. First, the fact that, because I don't live in Japan, I know that I'm not exposed to everything in the Japanese music scene. Second, sex sells. Its a simple subject that can be used by just about anyone. Third, sex in mainstream music is nothing new. Practically every mainstream form of music since the beginning of time has used sex as a theme, but, admittedly, it has become far more widespread since the 80s. In fact, its become so widespread since the 80s that we don't even have to go beyond the 80s to find blatant examples, but I digress.

Moving on, if you realize how easy to write the topic of sexuality is, the fact that you will not be exposed to everything that Japan has to offer and that sex sells, I'd say that its not that much of a logical leap.

While the stereotype is that hip hop is inherently sexual in nature, I can find examples in metal (notably most examples are hair bands, in other words mainstream metal bands), pop (again, mostly in mainstream pop), country (mainstream, seeing a pattern here?).

It boils down to the fact that mainstream music is an industry. Industries exist to manufacture product. The music industry is no exception. As I said, sex is an easy theme to use and it sells. The record companies don't care about quality as long as the people are buying and lining the executives pockets with gold. Sure, there will always be exceptions, but the majority of mainstream "artists" tend to follow formula.

Now, I will admit that I have no examples to back up my logical assumptions of Japanese artists using sex as readily as the west does as, again, I don't speak the language, but remember this: Many pop artists anime fans listen to play the themes to shonen and shojo shows. The main shonen/shojo demograhpic is between ages 6 and 15. I'm fairly certain that even the lighter Japanese censors will not allow an overtly sexual song play as the opening of something that is supposed to be family friendly.

As a side note, this reminds me of other pop trends, but that's a whole different topic altogether.

[Sheba]

Time to drop some lyrics and guess the band

#1

Spoiler:

My feelings are filled with the performance of time with a clear voice
The endless future continue to walk to your eyes

My heart is honestly fragile
Everybody around me is breaking
Suddenly in the sudden rain, although you stop again
You still believe in me

Higher than everyone else
Close to the sky
I am close to something bright and shinny
I wished for light
If I was burning, I will be okay
Everything is accompanying the truth

"The boy saw the hatred to which he is hiding a person shadow"
I don't want to see this kind of world anymore
No more! No more! No more!

But I will still think of you
Even if the season is coming to an end
It has rained many times but now it has stopped
It looks like the scene which i always watched with my eyes closed

The person pain
The dreams which never come true
Why does love have to be born in my chest
The flowers that we blossoming are sinking back into the ground

The time is fill with love
With a clear voice continue to give the endless night to your eyes

#2

Spoiler:

I'm waiting for your hands
To fold around my wrist
I'm mellowing in warm grass
And the scent of you I've missed

And blue is representing
The draft in my heart
I'm wandering through thin skies
And the transparent air I've missed

Pale is my face
You might want to colour
While I breathe

I'm following large drops of rain
With my eyes on the sight of you I've missed

Pale is my face
You might want to colour
While I breathe

One of them is a very well known j-rock band, the other is a little less-known dutch band. Guess which one is #1 and #2. My point? Dear fan who only like japanese music on the basis of "It's superior because it is japanese", once translated or once you understand the language, it is not more "poetic, "lyrical" or "deep" than the lyrics in your mother tongue.

[Neat Hedgehog]

Originally Posted by Sheba

It's superior because it is japanese", once translated or once you understand the language, it is not more "poetic, "lyrical" or "deep" than the lyrics in your mother tongue.

Well, I'm not sure why anyone else would say that, but I know when I say that Japanese sounds more poetic, I'm actually referring to the meter and flow of the language, not the meaning behind the words. After all, drivel is drivel no matter what language it's in. What I would mean is that English really doesn't lend itself to certain kinds of singing. It is much too jagged, and has too many hard cutoffs at the end of words to really make it flow quite as nicely.

But of course I can't say if that's what anyone else means or not. I just wanted to throw that in there.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Neat Hedgehog

Well, I'm not sure why anyone else would say that, but I know when I say that Japanese sounds more poetic, I'm actually referring to the meter and flow of the language, not the meaning behind the words. After all, drivel is drivel no matter what language it's in. What I would mean is that English really doesn't lend itself to certain kinds of singing. It is much too jagged, and has too many hard cutoffs at the end of words to really make it flow quite as nicely.

Please, show us where english as a language fails certain kinds of singing. I am not buying that argument, especially after listening the both languages, and others such as German, Norwegian or Gaelic.

[ShapetheSky]

Originally Posted by Neat Hedgehog

Well, I'm not sure why anyone else would say that, but I know when I say that Japanese sounds more poetic, I'm actually referring to the meter and flow of the language, not the meaning behind the words. After all, drivel is drivel no matter what language it's in. What I would mean is that English really doesn't lend itself to certain kinds of singing. It is much too jagged, and has too many hard cutoffs at the end of words to really make it flow quite as nicely.

But of course I can't say if that's what anyone else means or not. I just wanted to throw that in there.

English is like totally awesome as a singing language compared to German...
Although for example Italian and Japanese tend to be more versatile when sung due to their larger amount of vowels compared to the aforementioned languages. ^^

Regarding the original question:
Rock: mainly western nowadays, Japanese bands that make it big tend to become REALLY boring and formulaic (well, like western pop too) and there's not much of old music comparable to Hendrix, Zeppelin etc.
Acidman are awesome though, and there are other exceptions.
I also listen to a lot of Game and Anime soundtracks (=BGM!), I like celtic, ethnic, orchestral, chamber music etc....and there are *awesome* composers in the scene (Yoshihisa Hirano, Taku Iwasaki in anime soundtracks, nowadays...)
And it's less demanding than trying to sit through a 60 min symphony which I am definitely unable to digest while working. @_@

Oh, and regarding whoever brought it up:
there is quite a number of japanese rock bands that deal with serious topics, social critique etc. But they are not part of the mainstream *pop* industry, same as in every other country. And of course they also deal with sex (very obvious example: Porno Star by Sads), Drugs (Oblivion Dust itself are a metaphor for drugs lol, although the vocalist is half-british, so we could argue if that counts)...etc.

[Neat Hedgehog]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Please, show us where english as a language fails certain kinds of singing. I am not buying that argument, especially after listening the both languages, and others such as German, Norwegian or Gaelic.

It's not exactly an argument, more like a fact. Any language with as many R's and K's as English does (let alone German) is going to sound a little jagged. You can't really say it doesn't, since the very construction of the English language lends itself to jagged edges.

And I didn't say it "failed." I said it didn't lend itself to flowing quite as nicely. That's not saying it sounds bad, or even that I don't like it. All that's saying is that English doesn't end with a lot of vowel noises, and so it's a little more segmented.

Inversely, the fact that Japanese isn't as harshly segmented means that it's not quite as good as English for certain types of songs, either.

Although really I'm not sure why you seem to be so hostile about the subject. If I'm going to get my head bitten off for pointing out the construction of a certain language, I think I'll just stay out of here.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Neat Hedgehog

Although really I'm not sure why you seem to be so hostile about the subject. If I'm going to get my head bitten off for pointing out the construction of a certain language, I think I'll just stay out of here.

And what kind of english songs have you listened to reach that conclusion?

My stance on the subject is that I REFUSE to discriminate songs, bands and musical genres based on the language. I have heard "poetic" songs in english, spanish, arabic, norwegian, french, italian, japanese, gaelic and even dead languages such as Akkadian that were recreated for the need of a song.

In this topic, in this particular place, it is obvious that Western music gonna be the underdog. As a result, I think I should be playing the advocate for it. Because it is clear that some people are missing gems in the western music.

[Neat Hedgehog]

Well, you don't actually seem to be posting in an openly confrontational and hostile manner anymore, so I'll respond.

You can listen to anything in English to reach that conclusion. Actually, you can just read this post. Do you notice how many words here end in D's, R's, N's, G's, and so on? That's how the English language is made. Granted, I'm not writing a song, so I'm not trying to rhyme or be arty, but the fact is that English has a lot of consonants. It's one of the more jagged languages there is, next to German.

Note, however, that I am not "discriminating" against anything at all. I am not saying that English is incapable of being poetic, or anything else. In fact, I never said that any particular language was incapable of any particular style of music.

But the fact is, sometimes X language is going to have the latent potential to sound better at X style than Y language. Sometimes, X language is just going to have a construction that makes it better for making certain sounds and patterns with. Does that mean that X language is always going to be better for X style? No. Just that the language lends itself to a certain construction more than others.

If you'll notice, I'm not advocating any style or language at all. I'm basically saying "all languages are different, and as a result they will sound different."

Do you understand what I've been attempting to say yet?

edit: I'm not sure, this might seem to come off a little crabby. If it does, I'm not trying to be that way, I've just always had a hard time explaining things correctly, and I tend to get agitated with myself when I can't do it.

[Professor Waldorf X]

Can't fault Hedge's reasoning here. Though I have to say that Germanic languages (like English and German) are excellent languages for metal.

[AmyElizzabeth]

Mine is a very small mix.
95% is Japanese.
The other 4% is English, like Tik Tok and Russian Roulette.
The other 1% is BGMs.

[Ansalem]

Originally Posted by Professor Waldorf X

The terms "j-pop" and "anime music" are absolutely useless. Japanese music isn't some sort of holy grail of musical prowess and, personally, I listen to a very proportional amount of Japanese music to American music, Canadian music, Finnish music, British music, German music and music from other countries. Put simply, a bands nationality does not and never will say anything about their quality and will give almost nothing about style. After all, we don't call British pop "b-pop" or American pop "a-pop", so I ask again, why do we have to have a specific segregation based entirely on nationality?

I certain agree with you that the country of origin won't have any impact on the quality of the music and that for the most part categorizing something as Japanese music is an artificial separation, especially considering that pretty much every type of music genre is present in Japanese music.

That being said, I do think that nationality has some influence on style. There can be trends of elements in Japanese music or genres there-of which, while not unique to Japanese music and not present in all bands of that genre in Japanese music, can be more common than in music of the same type from other locations.

For general pop/rock from Japan, I can think of a few off the top of my head. The inclusion of chimes. Not in tons of songs, but I've come across it in a fair number of Japanese pop songs whereas I can't think of any examples from songs of other countries. Drum beats (especially during the chorus) that have bass drum on 1 &3, snare on 3, and open hi-hat on 2 and 4, closing on 1 and 3 is something fairly common as well. Different chord progressions are present in varying frequency. On of the more common to Japanese pop/rock compared to that of other countries would be a descending 1->5->6 chord progression, where on guitar the chords for 1 and 6 are generic power chords (notes 1-5-8) and 5 is a transition using the 3rd in the chord (notes 3-8-11). This progression is also used in different chord transitions in the key. In tabs, it'd look like this:
|-------------|
|-------------|
|-------------|
|--7--6--4--|
|--7--7--4--|
|--5--4--2--|

So there can be elements of music more present in Japanese music, or at least in genres of Japanese music, than in similar music from other countries. However, I'm sure the same could be said for any other country. Categorizing music as Japanese has less to do with this, however, than people using it as a convenient catch-all for Japanese music as though it were inherently different, which I'd also agree it isn't. Also, the idea that Japanese music on the whole is somehow superior to (or worse than) that of music from America or anywhere else for that matter is just silly and unfounded.