(L) Negima Manga Discussion

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

I will, however, at least explain why I think the later chapters suffered from bad writing.

You really didn't get the point I made across: I never stated the last chapters were "good" or anything (save the mood/touch of the last 2). What I do not agree though is your claim that Akamatsu became a bad writer, despite the whole problem with the recent chapters was so brutal that "simple bad writing" is something I hardly can imagine with Akamatsu.
I don't imply that he has made no mistakes so far, however, the brutal shift by the end of MM arc is, to me, a glaring proof that Akamatsu could not continue what he had planned, despite the biggets chunk of MM arc had a similar pacing than the other major arcs, albeit longer due to obvious reasons.

To me, bad writing would be an -extended- period of time where you have contradicting or nosense elements being thrown in the main plot, spiraling into the main story being hardly making sense by its own standards. You may think the sport festival is within such criteria, but I don't think so: surely, it sidetracked the main plot, however it didn't affect the main story, past shortening the amount of available chapters.

I really dislike the off screen stuff as much as anyone do, but frankly, suddenly bashing the author and the series -as a whole- is a bit too much, but that's just an opinion among many.

It doesn't need another hundred chapters. He could have resolved the whole Nagi thing back at the Mundus Magicus Arc. Instead, we merely get yet another mystery surrounding his disappearance which never got resolved on-screen.

I really doubt he could, otherwise it would be a nearly bogus plot device to suddenly "cure" Nagi from his predicament. Clues were present and obviously indicated quite well that Nagi was really in a very bad situation, so I trust Akamatsu did plan Nagi to be entangled by the Lifemaker (to the point it required Negi's team, including Eva, Setsuna and Konoka for the last push, as implied by the last chapter).

I don't think the off screen was a solution, yet I don't believe the situation could be solved "with few chapters" only, considering how Akamatsu was crafting the issue surrounding Nagi for a huge number of chapters, prior and during MM arc.

Frankly, I really believe that Kodansha was pressuring him to shorten MM arc, considering the pretty variable amount of fanservice in MM arc, which is quite weird if you consider how Akamatsu wrote the previous major arcs.
Simply speaking (and call it naive or whatever), Akamatsu wanted to wrap things by the end of his contrast with Kodansha, but even while the contract is about to end, Kodansha made sure Akamatsu doesn't go against the said criteria they have apposed for Negima.

If he knew the contract was going to end, why bother adding more hints and mysteries?! Start resolving them already!

Because it would simply goes against what he had in mind for LM/Nagi? Look, I don't think it was the best situation in the end, but from a narrative perspective, there would be very little plausible explanation to add Nagi -without- being assimilated by LM, without adding some bogus things like "well, I was sealed, lol!" or "I was hiding myself, teehee!".
There were various onimous stuff regarding Nagi the very few chapters after Rakan has explained Ala Rubra saga, and suddenly shifting Nagi's whereabouts wouldn't be any better.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

If he knew the contract was going to end, why bother adding more hints and mysteries?! Start resolving them already!

Foreshadowing potential story arcs is not a new strategy. Nisio does it with his Monogatari series. There were several earlier points where he could have ended it (like after Bake or Kizu), but chose not to. The same goes for Akamatsu.

When a work is partially influenced by the editor and publisher, the liberty to continue or end the work does not fall on the writer alone. The writer has to keep both options open: keep the world expansive enough to write more on it later, but also limit the story into separate arcs so that it can end if the time comes.

Again, it's not new. Wakaki did it early on in The World God Only Knows: the early story arcs were short and episodic, in case he had to end it soon, but there were several points that he could pick up later if he needed to, like the nature of Old and New Hell, the Weiss, Majima High's founding, etc.

[Blank-Mage]

My questions that will never be answered are now "How did Nagi show up to save Negi's ass six years ago" and "WHAT THE HELL ARIKA". I also could have handled not knowing who Negi ends up with if it wasn't for the brutal tease that he does in fact have someone in mind.

Arika, though, isn't something I can just shrug off. Is she dead? There must be some reason she didn't stick around to help her quietly desperate and lonely son save her world. Or try to free the love of her life from his imprisonment. Or anything. The fact that Negi has absolutely zero interest in her whereabouts is frankly infuriating.

Also, our finale was Yue getting raped. I'm not sure how to handle that.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Blank-Mage

Also, our finale was Yue getting raped. I'm not sure how to handle that.

three guesses

[osorito]

With any luck well get an OVA that explains the off screen part.

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by osorito

With any luck well get an OVA that explains the off screen part.

Not going to happen, as the anime went with the "threaten to wipe everyone's minds save for Negi's permanent partner" route for the ending.

[Auron Requies]

And there we have it. 355 Chapters of awesomeness.

After taking a breather from knowing a big favorite of mine is finished, had some time to put some thoughts together.

This ending would have been the perfect ending (ok maybe not perfect, but REALLY good) IF we were shown "One more story arc", which could have been the "Save Nagi Arc" to make this ending more meaningful.

I really liked the Fire Emblem like epilogue to each of the characters, to show how far they've come, though there's gonna be audience interpretation here and there. An example is:

Spoiler for 355:

Chisame after completing university, became a hikikomori afterwards, however Negi still seeks her out for her advice.

Even I found it strange especially since you can see how much shes changed from her introduction to the series, then growing in the festival arc all the way till the magical and then the epilogue.

I'd like to believe there's more to her ending, especially since she's always still maintained the 'working in the shadows' aspect. But that's what Akamatsu has left us, which I still find very strange.

It's not like that "Oh this ending frigging sucked, Negima ruined" moment for me, its more as I said, would been great if it had one more arc before it closed the book.

Even if in the future Negima material gets made, whether as a new manga, OAD (yes I'm aware anime final is meant to be the last but hey, time changes) or even drama cd, it will unfortunately never be seen as a "Sequel" to continue the story, and rather only ever be seen as 'side-material' or at most a 'prequel'.

A prequel would be nice to detail

Spoiler for 355:

The battle to save Nagi with all of 3A + Negi

However knowing the conclusion wont be as exciting compared to the event happening in real time. It'd be a feeling like the Ala Rubra stories, which while they were definately exciting, awesome, fun as hell (gosh see this is why you'd love this manga, lots of emotional mix, then again thats me) - it was already established that these events have happened, with foreshadowing/story hints here and there. Whereas with the final chapter, its just "This is what happened" blurb/summary.

The real feeling in the end is that of sadness + greatfullness to Akamatsu-sensei for writing one of my most favourite manga's for over the course of 9 years, despite the ending. At least this ending wasn't as weird as the anime final....which the only reason you'd accept that ending is the chance for a sequel.

[OverMaster]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

I will, however, at least explain why I think the later chapters suffered from bad writing.

[...]

Akamatsu chickened out. Either that, or he never knew what to do anyway. And Isn't it Sad, Anya?

You are my new hero.

And it's shocking to see the lenghts some people will try to go to justify the unjustifiable.

[myopius]

Spoiler for Negima:

Akamatsu no doubt had a lot on his mind during these last few chapters, but given that he took a lot of time off for research, you'd think he would have been able to make a decision on Negi's mother and who Negi likes. Regarding Negi's mother, well, I guess it might be such a huge deal that it would have been too much to have both that and Nagi in the same chapter. But regarding who Negi likes, I don't buy the idea that Akamatsu didn't want to shut off possibilities by picking someone, when he went to the trouble of having Yue and Nodoka be rejected. Even if it's Fate, he could at least hint at it like he did with Konoka and Setsuna.

Some kind of Negima sequel or side story to fill the gaps and satisfy readers in different ways would be difficult, but possible. If that happens, I hope it will be an entirely new story that develops the characters, rather than an attempt to fill in holes in the primary plots (Nagi and the space elevator). I'd love to see a story with a Love Hina-like atmosphere featuring actual romantic development between Negi and the person he likes. Maybe skip forward to when Negi's 15-16 (1-2 years before the final timeskip) or something and chronicle some new yet interesting and dramatic adventure centered around his love interest. Ugh, but really, at this point Negi appears consigned to a desk, so it's hard to picture him going off on some romantic adventure.

Oh, as for who I think the person Negi likes/liked is.. From the way the girls interacted with Negi in chapter 355, I don't think it's any of them. However, they didn't talk to Negi as though he had a girlfriend, nor did they press him for romantic info... Though they could have just not gotten to the latter yet, given they only had ~10 pages to hang out with him and Nagi took center stage. So my belief is that a) Negi isn't romantically involved right now; b) unless a huge amount of development happened such that he would no longer act any differently toward a person who he confessed to and who rejected him, he isn't involved with any of the people who he met with in the final chapter; c) Negi's likes may have changed in 7 years, but the person he liked back then is probably Fate or Anya (both possibilities warranting an "Uh, it was that simple?" reaction). FYI, I was rooting for Chisame or Eva not too long ago, and thought that Negi liking Anya was not justified at all by her lack of presence in the story, but given all these time skips, the fact that Anya is Negi's childhood friend could easily be built upon over the course of a time skip as the foundation of their relationship.

If I could see 2 pages added to the end of the series, perhaps it would be a stylish eyepatch-wearing 17-year-old Anya bursting through the door with Negi's mother and muttering something about getting his mother's approval, concluding the story with a passionate kiss between Anya and Negi. Yeah, I know that sounds like a bad fanfic, but I'm not very inventive, and at this point, I would just be happy with the semblance of character development and romantic development necessary to reach a satisfying conclusion.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by OverMaster

And it's shocking to see the lenghts some people will try to go to justify the unjustifiable.

Many mangas were canned in a worse way (Mz0 anyone?), and still were "justifiable". To consider Negima's situation as unjustifiable is quite an overstatement, but that's just me I guess.

[Kurush]

Originally Posted by OverMaster

It's shocking to see the lenghts some people will try to go to justify the unjustifiable.

I'm going to assume that you had no idea when you typed that.

[TnAdct1]

I think the best way to describe the problem with Negima's ending is this: instead of deciding on one or the other (i.e provide proper closure for either the "romance" section or the "Lifemaker possessing Nagi" situation), Ken Akamatsu ended up deciding to focus on both, resulting in the "romance" aspect being nothing more than Ken "teasing" the audience, while the "Nagi" situation was badly in need of real closure (rather than just "hey, Nagi's been saved, with some of 3-A meeting him in the final chapter").

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by OverMaster

And it's shocking to see the lenghts some people will try to go to justify the unjustifiable.

I'm just going to say that such a statement seems to have come from someone who had been pampered too much by the overall high quality of the series. I don't blame people if they feel as such, but still, Ken-san did magnificently considering the length constraint he was under, especially when compared to almost any other series.

[bonsobon]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

I'm just going to say that such a statement seems to have come from someone who had been pampered too much by the overall high quality of the series. I don't blame people if they feel as such, but still, Ken-san did magnificently considering the length constraint he was under, especially when compared to almost any other series.

I agree. A bad ending dosen't mean a bad manga overall; it just means a bad ending to an otherwise enjoyable series.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

That made my day.



It's a matter of personal taste I guess. And everybody's entitled to their opinion so I'm not going to force you to agree with me or anything.

I will, however, at least explain why I think the later chapters suffered from bad writing.

Simply put, there's one rule that goes for every story, whether it is in literature, manga, or movie form. That rule is "Show, Don't Tell", also known as "SHOW ME THE MONEY!", which basically translates as "If it's important enough to be in the story, the writer better have the fortitude to actually show it, rather than force his reader to do fill that part for him."

Now obviously we can't show all things. That is why we limit it to the important bits. for example, the "where they are now" scenes for side characters who barely have any relevance to the story doesn't need to be detailed, and some short description will suffice.

The important bits, however, have no excuse. I'm talking about Nagi - despite being absent for the majority of the story his existence and disappearance had left a great mark on Negi's character, so much that it defined his entire childhood. It was then logical for us to assume that Negi's quest to find him, to really find him instead of getting distracted by the "saving the Magical World" bit, as well as their eventual reunion to get a major focus.

Instead, it got resolved off-screen. We never knew what happened to him. Worse, We never saw what happened to him.

Same thing with the Lifemaker. Despite still being a threat at the end of the Mundus Magicus mega-arc we never saw his defeat, only a text describing that he lost and they win, parties for everyone!

But those two had it better. Arika didn't even get a slight mention. It's as if Ken purposely avoid mentioning her just to ship him with Eva.

In the end Negima Told, not Showed. So there, my 2 cents on why Akamatsu's writing plummeted near the end.



It doesn't need another hundred chapters. He could have resolved the whole Nagi thing back at the Mundus Magicus Arc. Instead, we merely get yet another mystery surrounding his disappearance which never got resolved on-screen.

He could have tidy up all the loose ends there. That couple of chapters of "Who Negi Loves" which in the end went nowhere? Yeah, he could have allocated those to the Mundus Magicus Arc and let the Nagi, Arika and Lifemaker issue get resolved right there. Done - no more important loose ends. Instead, the Lifemaker somehow has Nagi's face, and then that guy drops more hints on Nagi's fate. Hints that never went anywhere!

If he knew the contract was going to end, why bother adding more hints and mysteries?! Start resolving them already!

...instead, we got several chapters of aimless harem hijinks, as well as Asuna's "heyguyswhatareyoucryingfor - TIME TRAVEL SOLVES EVERYTHING!"



Akamatsu chickened out. Either that, or he never knew what to do anyway. And Isn't it Sad, Anya?

you do realize that Akamatsu is not renewing his contract with his publisher which is why Negima is ending early. This has nothing to do with whether or not Akamatsu still has it or lost it. Akamatsu is basically skipping all the important plot points (Arika, Lifemaker, Etc) not because he chicken out (whatever that means) or because his talent left him. But because he is LEAVING HIS PUBLISHER.

What is so hard to understand that Akamatsu is leaving his publisher which is why all the important stuff got skip?

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

But because he is LEAVING HIS PUBLISHER.

What is so hard to understand that Akamatsu is leaving his publisher which is why all the important stuff got skip?

Let's say that he's leaving his publisher. What does that have to do with giving a shitty ending that resolves a lot of plot point off-screen? He could have just, you now, not resolve them, paving a proper path for a sequel, should he ever want to resume.

Let's say that he's obliged to keep drawing Negima 'till chapter 355. Thing is, there are several useless chapters that could have been allocated to resolving the story:
- Chapter 341-343: They wasted three chapters talking and fighting about how great Negi and Asuna's sacrifice and yada yada and for what? Asuna got a Deus ex Machina that practically made all the surrounding drama meaningless and Negi wasn't shown with any side-effect in the ending.
- Chapter 344-349: Six chapters of teenage girls trying to pry on the private life of a freakin' ten-year old, with character derailment on several people just for good measure. What did we get out of that? Only Akira's pactio, which never got used in a serious story. What's the point of giving new powers when he's already planning on abandoning this story?
- Chapter 350-353: Oh noes, Asuna's going to stasis for more than a century and now she's alone. My gawd, that's so sad....wait, here's Chao to the rescue with a time travel machine to give her a super happy ending! Never mind that there's two Asuna now, and the other one still won't get lucky when it's her time to wake up in the future.

Thirteen chapters. Shoehorn those to the Mundus Magicus Arc to resolve the question of Nagi and Arika and there wouldn't have been a major loose end (it's inevitable that the minor things would be abandoned). Or make it thirteen chapters of people finding hints beneath the Gravekeepers Palace resulting in them finding Nagi, whatever. The resolution may end up rushed compared to the rest of the arcs, but that would still be much better than having it resolved off-screen Instead, he made... the above.

You know what's even more sad? Anya didn't even got mentioned and Chisame became a hikkikomori. They got luckier on the supposedly Bad End

[chaosprophet]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Let's say that he's leaving his publisher. What does that have to do with giving a shitty ending that resolves a lot of plot point off-screen? He could have just, you now, not resolve them, paving a proper path for a sequel, should he ever want to resume.

Another way to see this is, as he had the number of chapters counted, instead of rushing like crazy to finish all the plot points with the amount of chapters he had left, he skipped them and showed the resolution of the major ones. That way the manga have and end, albeit a lacking one. And later a sequel could branch off around a point near the end, like just before the 7 years time skip, or just before the 5 months time skip.

If he is leaving the publisher, this means a sequel would be released somewhere else, so not necessary all who read Negima would be able to follow it. So that would be a reason to give Negima and end, even if he is going to continue, instead of leaving it at a point like ch 355.

Of course this is assuming, like you did when you wrote your post, that is the reason the manga ended at that point and that he will indeed continue it. Which are things we don't know.

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Let's say that he's obliged to keep drawing Negima 'till chapter 355. Thing is, there are several useless chapters that could have been allocated to resolving the story:
- Chapter 341-343: They wasted three chapters talking and fighting about how great Negi and Asuna's sacrifice and yada yada and for what? Asuna got a Deus ex Machina that practically made all the surrounding drama meaningless and Negi wasn't shown with any side-effect in the ending.
- Chapter 344-349: Six chapters of teenage girls trying to pry on the private life of a freakin' ten-year old, with character derailment on several people just for good measure. What did we get out of that? Only Akira's pactio, which never got used in a serious story. What's the point of giving new powers when he's already planning on abandoning this story?
- Chapter 350-353: Oh noes, Asuna's going to stasis for more than a century and now she's alone. My gawd, that's so sad....wait, here's Chao to the rescue with a time travel machine to give her a super happy ending! Never mind that there's two Asuna now, and the other one still won't get lucky when it's her time to wake up in the future.

Thirteen chapters. Shoehorn those to the Mundus Magicus Arc to resolve the question of Nagi and Arika and there wouldn't have been a major loose end (it's inevitable that the minor things would be abandoned). Or make it thirteen chapters of people finding hints beneath the Gravekeepers Palace resulting in them finding Nagi, whatever. The resolution may end up rushed compared to the rest of the arcs, but that would still be much better than having it resolved off-screen Instead, he made... the above.

Another option: instead of having the last two chapters focusing on a solo Yue story and the the aftermath of Nagi's rescue, have the last two chapters resolve the question on which student Negi likes (especially if Ken Akamatsu is reverting back to his "Love Hina" days for the last two volumes of the manga). That way, the final showdown with Nagi can be saved up for the sequel while the "middle-school teacher" portion of the story is officially over.

[MidnightViper88]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu~.....

I was a little disappointed with the ending since it still left a lot of goatse-gaping holes throughout the plot for most of the characters, and I hope it's not too late to blame the publisher for their hand in this...But I can't be arsed to complain; It was a good 9 years, and at least it actually came to an end instead of dragging on forever lost...

If I can salvage anything out of the final chapter, it would be my interest in the changes to character design to reflect respective aging/maturity (Though dammit if as a Shinobu fan from Love Hina, I can't help but find it extremely coincidental that Nodoka pretty much evolved into a near-copy of Shinobu, lastly in the looks department by the end; Reduce, reuse, recycle)...A concrete time frame wasn't given for the skip, was it? Oh well; Fanart material begins again

[TheBigBoo]

I have to agree with all of Tiresias's points.

IMO, it would have been better if the manga had a "Negima: Anime Final movie"-like ending right after the MW arc instead of this pseudo-arc that didn't solve anything and didn't make any point. In other words, the movie had actually a better ending than the manga. I found the last chapter pretty enjoyable to read though, and kinda liked the idea of a "open to speculation" ending to troll fans, regarding who is the person who Negi likes.

Also, I wasn't really sure of where should I post this, but this is a negima/megaman crossover game I've been working on, and tried to release the trailer before the end of the manga:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDhjf4hFZPk