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Old 2012-03-12, 22:18   Link #8361
TnAdct1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osorito View Post
With any luck well get an OVA that explains the off screen part.
Not going to happen, as the anime went with the "threaten to wipe everyone's minds save for Negi's permanent partner" route for the ending.
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Old 2012-03-13, 06:10   Link #8362
Auron Requies
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And there we have it. 355 Chapters of awesomeness.

After taking a breather from knowing a big favorite of mine is finished, had some time to put some thoughts together.

This ending would have been the perfect ending (ok maybe not perfect, but REALLY good) IF we were shown "One more story arc", which could have been the "Save Nagi Arc" to make this ending more meaningful.

I really liked the Fire Emblem like epilogue to each of the characters, to show how far they've come, though there's gonna be audience interpretation here and there. An example is:

Spoiler for 355:


I'd like to believe there's more to her ending, especially since she's always still maintained the 'working in the shadows' aspect. But that's what Akamatsu has left us, which I still find very strange.

It's not like that "Oh this ending frigging sucked, Negima ruined" moment for me, its more as I said, would been great if it had one more arc before it closed the book.

Even if in the future Negima material gets made, whether as a new manga, OAD (yes I'm aware anime final is meant to be the last but hey, time changes) or even drama cd, it will unfortunately never be seen as a "Sequel" to continue the story, and rather only ever be seen as 'side-material' or at most a 'prequel'.

A prequel would be nice to detail
Spoiler for 355:


However knowing the conclusion wont be as exciting compared to the event happening in real time. It'd be a feeling like the Ala Rubra stories, which while they were definately exciting, awesome, fun as hell (gosh see this is why you'd love this manga, lots of emotional mix, then again thats me) - it was already established that these events have happened, with foreshadowing/story hints here and there. Whereas with the final chapter, its just "This is what happened" blurb/summary.

The real feeling in the end is that of sadness + greatfullness to Akamatsu-sensei for writing one of my most favourite manga's for over the course of 9 years, despite the ending. At least this ending wasn't as weird as the anime final....which the only reason you'd accept that ending is the chance for a sequel.
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Old 2012-03-13, 13:33   Link #8363
OverMaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
I will, however, at least explain why I think the later chapters suffered from bad writing.

[...]

Akamatsu chickened out. Either that, or he never knew what to do anyway. And Isn't it Sad, Anya?
You are my new hero.

And it's shocking to see the lenghts some people will try to go to justify the unjustifiable.
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Old 2012-03-13, 13:37   Link #8364
myopius
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Spoiler for Negima:
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Old 2012-03-13, 13:38   Link #8365
Klashikari
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Originally Posted by OverMaster View Post
And it's shocking to see the lenghts some people will try to go to justify the unjustifiable.
Many mangas were canned in a worse way (Mz0 anyone?), and still were "justifiable". To consider Negima's situation as unjustifiable is quite an overstatement, but that's just me I guess.
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Old 2012-03-13, 13:38   Link #8366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverMaster View Post
It's shocking to see the lenghts some people will try to go to justify the unjustifiable.
I'm going to assume that you had no idea when you typed that.
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Old 2012-03-13, 15:55   Link #8367
TnAdct1
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I think the best way to describe the problem with Negima's ending is this: instead of deciding on one or the other (i.e provide proper closure for either the "romance" section or the "Lifemaker possessing Nagi" situation), Ken Akamatsu ended up deciding to focus on both, resulting in the "romance" aspect being nothing more than Ken "teasing" the audience, while the "Nagi" situation was badly in need of real closure (rather than just "hey, Nagi's been saved, with some of 3-A meeting him in the final chapter").
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Old 2012-03-13, 15:59   Link #8368
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Originally Posted by OverMaster View Post
And it's shocking to see the lenghts some people will try to go to justify the unjustifiable.
I'm just going to say that such a statement seems to have come from someone who had been pampered too much by the overall high quality of the series. I don't blame people if they feel as such, but still, Ken-san did magnificently considering the length constraint he was under, especially when compared to almost any other series.
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Old 2012-03-13, 18:17   Link #8369
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I'm just going to say that such a statement seems to have come from someone who had been pampered too much by the overall high quality of the series. I don't blame people if they feel as such, but still, Ken-san did magnificently considering the length constraint he was under, especially when compared to almost any other series.
I agree. A bad ending dosen't mean a bad manga overall; it just means a bad ending to an otherwise enjoyable series.
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Old 2012-03-13, 18:26   Link #8370
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
That made my day.



It's a matter of personal taste I guess. And everybody's entitled to their opinion so I'm not going to force you to agree with me or anything.

I will, however, at least explain why I think the later chapters suffered from bad writing.

Simply put, there's one rule that goes for every story, whether it is in literature, manga, or movie form. That rule is "Show, Don't Tell", also known as "SHOW ME THE MONEY!", which basically translates as "If it's important enough to be in the story, the writer better have the fortitude to actually show it, rather than force his reader to do fill that part for him."

Now obviously we can't show all things. That is why we limit it to the important bits. for example, the "where they are now" scenes for side characters who barely have any relevance to the story doesn't need to be detailed, and some short description will suffice.

The important bits, however, have no excuse. I'm talking about Nagi - despite being absent for the majority of the story his existence and disappearance had left a great mark on Negi's character, so much that it defined his entire childhood. It was then logical for us to assume that Negi's quest to find him, to really find him instead of getting distracted by the "saving the Magical World" bit, as well as their eventual reunion to get a major focus.

Instead, it got resolved off-screen. We never knew what happened to him. Worse, We never saw what happened to him.

Same thing with the Lifemaker. Despite still being a threat at the end of the Mundus Magicus mega-arc we never saw his defeat, only a text describing that he lost and they win, parties for everyone!

But those two had it better. Arika didn't even get a slight mention. It's as if Ken purposely avoid mentioning her just to ship him with Eva.

In the end Negima Told, not Showed. So there, my 2 cents on why Akamatsu's writing plummeted near the end.



It doesn't need another hundred chapters. He could have resolved the whole Nagi thing back at the Mundus Magicus Arc. Instead, we merely get yet another mystery surrounding his disappearance which never got resolved on-screen.

He could have tidy up all the loose ends there. That couple of chapters of "Who Negi Loves" which in the end went nowhere? Yeah, he could have allocated those to the Mundus Magicus Arc and let the Nagi, Arika and Lifemaker issue get resolved right there. Done - no more important loose ends. Instead, the Lifemaker somehow has Nagi's face, and then that guy drops more hints on Nagi's fate. Hints that never went anywhere!

If he knew the contract was going to end, why bother adding more hints and mysteries?! Start resolving them already!

...instead, we got several chapters of aimless harem hijinks, as well as Asuna's "heyguyswhatareyoucryingfor - TIME TRAVEL SOLVES EVERYTHING!"



Akamatsu chickened out. Either that, or he never knew what to do anyway. And Isn't it Sad, Anya?
you do realize that Akamatsu is not renewing his contract with his publisher which is why Negima is ending early. This has nothing to do with whether or not Akamatsu still has it or lost it. Akamatsu is basically skipping all the important plot points (Arika, Lifemaker, Etc) not because he chicken out (whatever that means) or because his talent left him. But because he is LEAVING HIS PUBLISHER.

What is so hard to understand that Akamatsu is leaving his publisher which is why all the important stuff got skip?
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Old 2012-03-13, 19:20   Link #8371
Tiresias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
But because he is LEAVING HIS PUBLISHER.

What is so hard to understand that Akamatsu is leaving his publisher which is why all the important stuff got skip?
Let's say that he's leaving his publisher. What does that have to do with giving a shitty ending that resolves a lot of plot point off-screen? He could have just, you now, not resolve them, paving a proper path for a sequel, should he ever want to resume.

Let's say that he's obliged to keep drawing Negima 'till chapter 355. Thing is, there are several useless chapters that could have been allocated to resolving the story:
- Chapter 341-343: They wasted three chapters talking and fighting about how great Negi and Asuna's sacrifice and yada yada and for what? Asuna got a Deus ex Machina that practically made all the surrounding drama meaningless and Negi wasn't shown with any side-effect in the ending.
- Chapter 344-349: Six chapters of teenage girls trying to pry on the private life of a freakin' ten-year old, with character derailment on several people just for good measure. What did we get out of that? Only Akira's pactio, which never got used in a serious story. What's the point of giving new powers when he's already planning on abandoning this story?
- Chapter 350-353: Oh noes, Asuna's going to stasis for more than a century and now she's alone. My gawd, that's so sad....wait, here's Chao to the rescue with a time travel machine to give her a super happy ending! Never mind that there's two Asuna now, and the other one still won't get lucky when it's her time to wake up in the future.

Thirteen chapters. Shoehorn those to the Mundus Magicus Arc to resolve the question of Nagi and Arika and there wouldn't have been a major loose end (it's inevitable that the minor things would be abandoned). Or make it thirteen chapters of people finding hints beneath the Gravekeepers Palace resulting in them finding Nagi, whatever. The resolution may end up rushed compared to the rest of the arcs, but that would still be much better than having it resolved off-screen Instead, he made... the above.

You know what's even more sad? Anya didn't even got mentioned and Chisame became a hikkikomori. They got luckier on the supposedly Bad End
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Old 2012-03-13, 21:17   Link #8372
chaosprophet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Let's say that he's leaving his publisher. What does that have to do with giving a shitty ending that resolves a lot of plot point off-screen? He could have just, you now, not resolve them, paving a proper path for a sequel, should he ever want to resume.
Another way to see this is, as he had the number of chapters counted, instead of rushing like crazy to finish all the plot points with the amount of chapters he had left, he skipped them and showed the resolution of the major ones. That way the manga have and end, albeit a lacking one. And later a sequel could branch off around a point near the end, like just before the 7 years time skip, or just before the 5 months time skip.

If he is leaving the publisher, this means a sequel would be released somewhere else, so not necessary all who read Negima would be able to follow it. So that would be a reason to give Negima and end, even if he is going to continue, instead of leaving it at a point like ch 355.

Of course this is assuming, like you did when you wrote your post, that is the reason the manga ended at that point and that he will indeed continue it. Which are things we don't know.
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Old 2012-03-13, 21:26   Link #8373
TnAdct1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Let's say that he's obliged to keep drawing Negima 'till chapter 355. Thing is, there are several useless chapters that could have been allocated to resolving the story:
- Chapter 341-343: They wasted three chapters talking and fighting about how great Negi and Asuna's sacrifice and yada yada and for what? Asuna got a Deus ex Machina that practically made all the surrounding drama meaningless and Negi wasn't shown with any side-effect in the ending.
- Chapter 344-349: Six chapters of teenage girls trying to pry on the private life of a freakin' ten-year old, with character derailment on several people just for good measure. What did we get out of that? Only Akira's pactio, which never got used in a serious story. What's the point of giving new powers when he's already planning on abandoning this story?
- Chapter 350-353: Oh noes, Asuna's going to stasis for more than a century and now she's alone. My gawd, that's so sad....wait, here's Chao to the rescue with a time travel machine to give her a super happy ending! Never mind that there's two Asuna now, and the other one still won't get lucky when it's her time to wake up in the future.

Thirteen chapters. Shoehorn those to the Mundus Magicus Arc to resolve the question of Nagi and Arika and there wouldn't have been a major loose end (it's inevitable that the minor things would be abandoned). Or make it thirteen chapters of people finding hints beneath the Gravekeepers Palace resulting in them finding Nagi, whatever. The resolution may end up rushed compared to the rest of the arcs, but that would still be much better than having it resolved off-screen Instead, he made... the above.
Another option: instead of having the last two chapters focusing on a solo Yue story and the the aftermath of Nagi's rescue, have the last two chapters resolve the question on which student Negi likes (especially if Ken Akamatsu is reverting back to his "Love Hina" days for the last two volumes of the manga). That way, the final showdown with Nagi can be saved up for the sequel while the "middle-school teacher" portion of the story is officially over.
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Old 2012-03-13, 22:18   Link #8374
MidnightViper88
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Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu~.....

I was a little disappointed with the ending since it still left a lot of goatse-gaping holes throughout the plot for most of the characters, and I hope it's not too late to blame the publisher for their hand in this...But I can't be arsed to complain; It was a good 9 years, and at least it actually came to an end instead of dragging on forever lost...

If I can salvage anything out of the final chapter, it would be my interest in the changes to character design to reflect respective aging/maturity (Though dammit if as a Shinobu fan from Love Hina, I can't help but find it extremely coincidental that Nodoka pretty much evolved into a near-copy of Shinobu, lastly in the looks department by the end; Reduce, reuse, recycle)...A concrete time frame wasn't given for the skip, was it? Oh well; Fanart material begins again
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Old 2012-03-14, 15:50   Link #8375
TheBigBoo
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I have to agree with all of Tiresias's points.

IMO, it would have been better if the manga had a "Negima: Anime Final movie"-like ending right after the MW arc instead of this pseudo-arc that didn't solve anything and didn't make any point. In other words, the movie had actually a better ending than the manga. I found the last chapter pretty enjoyable to read though, and kinda liked the idea of a "open to speculation" ending to troll fans, regarding who is the person who Negi likes.

Also, I wasn't really sure of where should I post this, but this is a negima/megaman crossover game I've been working on, and tried to release the trailer before the end of the manga:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDhjf4hFZPk

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Old 2012-03-14, 16:50   Link #8376
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Old 2012-03-14, 17:00   Link #8377
Klashikari
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Originally Posted by TheBigBoo View Post
I have to agree with all of Tiresias's points.

IMO, it would have been better if the manga had a "Negima: Anime Final movie"-like ending right after the MW arc instead of this pseudo-arc that didn't solve anything and didn't make any point. In other words, the movie had actually a better ending than the manga. I found the last chapter pretty enjoyable to read though, and kinda liked the idea of a "open to speculation" ending to troll fans, regarding who is the person who Negi likes.
Excuse me? You really mean it that the movie has a better ending?
You must be joking: while it uses a copout harem ending that smell laziness all around (which can be acceptable to some degree due to negima genre), it does not solve anything to the slightest, regarding the main plot. Instead of adding points of the main plot, the movie literally ignore them, mixing with non sense (complete memory wipe? really?) and -also- bring offscreen stuff (hello Nagi and Arika showing up out of-NOWHERE-, worse than 355 chapter?)

I can understand to some degree that the manga ending disappointed people, but to compare it with the movie is just ridiculous.
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Old 2012-03-14, 18:35   Link #8378
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I can understand leaving side-plots unresolved, since they are by their nature more easily left there, but the lack of resolving of the main plot threads (Lifemaker, Nagi, Arika, etc.) is what disappointed me the most. Off screen resolving doesn't cut it, resolving a plot includes answering the questions raised, not just showing the ending.

Though I do agree, comparing it to the movie is just ludicrous. The manga doesn't resolve plot. The movie takes plot, shreds it to tiny pieces and replaces it with a mockery of what it was.
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Old 2012-03-14, 23:08   Link #8379
TheBigBoo
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Excuse me? You really mean it that the movie has a better ending?
You must be joking: while it uses a copout harem ending that smell laziness all around (which can be acceptable to some degree due to negima genre), it does not solve anything to the slightest, regarding the main plot. Instead of adding points of the main plot, the movie literally ignore them, mixing with non sense (complete memory wipe? really?) and -also- bring offscreen stuff (hello Nagi and Arika showing up out of-NOWHERE-, worse than 355 chapter?)

I can understand to some degree that the manga ending disappointed people, but to compare it with the movie is just ridiculous.
I'm sorry for not making it clear but I meant it more in terms of structure than in terms of content. I'd rather have something like the movie, which doesn't leave a doubt that the MW was the final arc and that what you're watching/reading after it is just a quick wrapup for the series, then pretending to stretch the series for another arc, building up expectations for something serious to happen next, and suddenly giving up on that midway.

Oh, and by "ending" I'm actually counting everything since the manga and the movie split, in other words, everything since chapter 335. If you consider that, both endings are equally terribly written and forced IMO. It's bad storytelling. No pacing, no foreshadow, not a single sign that the story was slightly planned.

If you're not going to explain any mysteries or give the series a proper climax, why strech the series for 20 more fan-service chapters with nonsense stuff like Fate becoming a teacher and stupid mini-arcs filled with out-of-character actions? Sincerely, I'd rather have 3 rushed chapters that focused on Negi finding his father then 2 whole volumes about new stuff that's gonna be thrown away forever when the author abandons the story (ex: space elevator, Akira pactio, drama because of Asuna's sacrifice etc).
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Old 2012-03-14, 23:36   Link #8380
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(creeps back in here after days of toiling away on a paper)

.....HAHAHAHA! The rage still burns on! Excellent!
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