Higurashi Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[Crimen Scythe]

All i can gather from this ep is:

Spoiler for ep 5 speculation:

Mion is dissapointed that Keiichi didnt give her the doll...because it didnt suit her personality...so she tries to agree with Keiichi that she's manly...After work, when she's walking home with Keiichi and Rena, Keiichi talks about Shion...which makes Mion assume that he met Shion...and then she runs off...i think she disguises herself as Shion and gives Keiichi the bento...because i think she wants to see Keiichi if he likes feminine girls like Shion..she obviously does this because she has feelings for Keiichi...IMO

As for when Shion calls out the villagers to make the Yakuza away...i think it has sumthin to do wit the past...such as the Sonozaki family were leaders against the dam construction project...which makes them the head family...and there mightve been some controversy between Hinamizawa and Okinomiya Town...wit each sister on opposing sides...and being part of one of the head families, probably keeps Shion informed of everything such as new residents to the town or village..IMHO...


Regarding the opening scene, i think it was Mion more than Shion based on appearance...because this arc is more focused on Mion...and judging from Onikakushi-hen...Keiichi was fine and innocent...til he snapped and killed Rena and Mion...so i wouldnt doubt Mion might go cray for some reason...but then again this is only the first chapter of Watanagishi-hen...still more to find out...

[Shay]

Spoiler:

Wow...As if episode 4 wasn't weird enough this ep starts with Rika-chan head-butting a butchers knife while an on-looking Mion-chan just evilly cackle’s away. And then ping! We go back-in-time showing different events as if everything was just A-OK? WTF? This face truly depicts my feelings.....

I have no theories, no expectations; I'm just tagging along for the ride. And thoroughly enjoying myself at the same time. Weird as it all may be.....

[Shadowscar]

awesome episode that left me wanting more but it also confused me alot

Is this another story completely that just uses the same characters? or did it just go back in time and is telling another story that co exists with the first story? or is it something completely different lol

[Boukenxha]

Spoiler for ep 5:

Interesting, I was reminded of kj1980's question. So how did Mion know about Keiichi and Oishi meeting in the restaurant?

It was established at the end that Shion do exist and she works in Angel Mort, so we can struck out dual personality... for now. But the twins doesn't seems to be getting along, so I don't think we can trust that Shion passed on the information to Mion (Yeah also how did Shion know about Keiichi then). That leaves that Mion stood-in for Shion from time to time, possible since her part-time work is on and off and Angel Mort could every well be one of her uncles' business, though I can't imagine Mion willing to wear that outfit, not when we are shown how red-faced she can get. Oh yeah that sure is a cute side of her.

Other reasons? None that I can think of at the moment. But I'm sure Shion is introduced for a reason that has to do with Mion going insane. The episode and it's title also seems to be hinting that Mion is bothered by her shy side and she could be jealous of Shion's openness.

As Sushi-Y said, Shion does seem to fall into the evil scheming type. The way she took the credit for the obento and tried to seduce Keiichi is evident. Probably why Mion never introduce Shion to her friends. I'm sure everyone can see that there's more going on between Mion and Shion too. She acts just too unnatural whenever Shion is mentioned, she's clearly avoiding the topic. Maybe she is bullied or threatened by her sister?

Can anyone clarify for me the relationship between Hinamizawa, Okinomiya, and Shishibone City? Doesn't seem important really, but I thought it might help me understand the area of influence the Sonozaki family have. Thanks.

[Vicke]

Spoiler for ep5:

Wow what an opening scene. So its Shion that works at the Angel Mort and not Mion like I thought when I saw ep5 preview. I also think Mion really wanted the doll from K1 but joked her way out when K1 said it didnt suit Mion. Mion talks alot about K1 with Shion? Mion has alot of enemies? Is that why she lives with her grandma? Was it Mion or Shion that came with the bento? My theory is that Mion went home, changed clothes and gave K1 the bento she was going to have with her to work. Mion probably imposed as Shion because K1 thinks of Mion as a non feminine girl(doll incident). Later Shion acts like she first dont know she made a bento for K1 then she understands that Mion must have imposed as her and tries to save her sis by acting along. Then later Mion understands that K1 knows that it was Mion that gave him the bento and is really embarrassed.

Also why didnt this game contest in town happen in Onikakushi-hen?

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by Manatsu

Can anyone clarify for me the relationship between Hinamizawa, Okinomiya, and Shishibone City? Doesn't seem important really, but I thought it might help me understand the area of influence the Sonozaki family have. Thanks.

Althought it is called Shishibone City, this "city" is more like a "county." I'm not a geographer so I don't know the exact reasoning behind this, but some rural areas tend to combine several surrounding villages and towns into one "city."

So within Shishibone City, you have two sub-divisions:
Okinomiya - a town
Hinamizawa - a village

[Macnown]

mm one question,
how come oishi didn't tell keichi that Mion had a twin sister? aswel as a brother
don't tell me the brother turned in to a girl??? mazaka

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by Manatsu

Can anyone clarify for me the relationship between Hinamizawa, Okinomiya, and Shishibone City? Doesn't seem important really, but I thought it might help me understand the area of influence the Sonozaki family have. Thanks.

Just like the "Intimidation" TIP suggested, the Sonozaki family is an incredibly influential force in the local government, all the way up to the prefectural level. The reason will be revealed in this chapter, Watanagashi-hen.

As for the whole Shion/Mion relationship thing, there's a lot more to it than meets the eye. One thing's for certain, Meakashi (Watanagashi's "answer" chapter) will definitely bring a lot of surprises for most people.

Also, some people above were asking why certain events that happened in this episode (Watanagashi-hen) didn't happen in Onikakushi-hen (for example, why wasn't Shion introduced in Onikakushi-hen?). I can only give out one hint: When you replay a stage in, say, a shooting game, you never get exactly the same developments or results every time, right? This is the same thing.

Originally Posted by kj1980

So within Shishibone City, you have two sub-divisions:
Okinomiya - a town
Hinamizawa - a village

I believe since Hinamizawa is too small to have its own local government (besides a village council), most of Hinamizawa's municipal functions (such as police) are covered by the nearest town, Okinomiya. Same for all the other villages listed in that dam resistence declaration TIP. Overall though, both Hinamizawa and Okinomiya counts as a municipality of Shishibone.

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by Macnown

mm one question,
how come oishi didn't tell keichi that Mion had a twin sister? aswel as a brother
don't tell me the brother turned in to a girl??? mazaka

Why would Oishi need to tell that Mion had a twin sister if it's not related to the investigation, moreso if it doesn't add anything positive? And I don't know where you got the idea of a brother...

[Mr. Guy]

Is it just me or...

Spoiler for Episode 5 + stuff from 4(theory):

Does it seem like Mion/Shion may actually be Yakuza? Both of them seem to talk in a very... superior manner at certain times. Mion during the scene where she talks about Oishi and Shion when she's dealing with the three punks. Mion's scene in particular reeks of organized crime because of her mention of giving mercy to a cop. Who the hell would do that besides mobsters? Both of them seem to have an inflated sense of superiority that allows them to speak down to others. Something one would expect from children of organized crime.

Thoguh I don't quite understand why the town's people help out Shion. It's possible that they're all just nice people, but it seems a little far for everyone to get to enraged over three punks. The only thing that maybe could be the reason is that they recognize that she's the child of Yakuza and help her out of respect/fear? It seems a little odd for the children to be going along with that though. One would also think that if a Yakuza family was that widely known, Oishi would have told K1 about it.

It's frequently mentioned in the TIPS thread that Mion has certain issues with her family. Not entirely sure if the Yakuza is family oriented, but the mob over here in Boston sure is. Maybe she lives away from her parents because of some internal strife within the group? Possibly also the reason she lives away from Shion.

Though I've probably thought about it all waaaayyy too much. I blame watching A History of Violence last night + a book I'm reading on the Bulger brothers

Suddenly becoming a big fan of Shion with a growing like of Mion. She may not have quite the psycho charm of Rena, but something must be loose in the head if she can laugh during that opening scene...

[orion]

Yeah, I didn't have to reacquaint myself with my meal! (I watched this episode on an empty stomach. )

Spoiler:

Cosmic reset!

What a way to go! No "down the road" for Rika!

So Mion knew about Keiichi's talking to Oishi because she subs at Angel Mort where they had their conversation or Shion called her up and let her know (Lil' sis watching big sis' back.)

I still can't believe that they don't talk to each other or see each other much. They work in the same town and Mion had an exact copy of part of Shion's wardrobe. That could mean that Shion does drop by from time to time or that Mion is jealous of Shion and copies her secretly. But Shion's comments that Mion has enemies is worrisome. Maybe that's why she's packing a pistol.

Poor Keiichi. Must be tough being the object of affection of twins!

Also...

Spoiler:

Another case of siblings being separated. This time one inside of the village and the other outside of the village. Does this mean that Shion won't get affected?

[Scribble]

Originally Posted by Mr. Guy

Is it just me or...(speculation)

The fact that Mion has a gun in previous episode supports what you're saying, I guess!

EDIT:

So let me get this straight: Kei and gang going to the shop to play cards in episode 5 happened because a different route was taken in the story? Or could this have occured in Onikakushi-hen, but we didn't see it?

[SvenTheSweeper]

I watched it in the morning instead of 11pm, since I didn’t want to be awake at night thinking about the show->I like my sleep. Even the first scene with Rika was not as disturbing as I thought it would be.

I gave episode five a 9, I would have given a 10 if they gave me more Shion and Mion screen time. I enjoy how the dynamics are playing out between the sisters and Keiichi. I feel joy for him (i.e. “Lucky dude, you got cute girls who like you.”) and anguish (i.e. “Bummer dude, you got girls with skeletons is their closets”) at the same time.

Otherwise, I enjoyed the mostly light-hearted slice-of-life break from what went on in ep.3-4.

Spoiler for US Presisdent:

Who would have thought that Ronald Reagan gets a mention in this episode.

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Spoiler:

Actually, it's not a murder, it's a suicide, and it's not an attempt, it succeeded.

Ok, my episode 5 comments with highlights. Only read if you have already seen episode 5, or don't mind being spoiled:

Spoiler for episode 5:

First of all, the opening:

First reaction: （； Д ） ゜ ゜
Second reaction: omfg is it that scene!?
Third reaction: that was totally unexpected (even for a game-player like me).
Fourth reaction: Meakashi crossover? This scene is going to trouble the first-time watchers to no ends.
Fifth reaction: Holy shit that was scary (even for a game-player like me). ((( ；゜Д゜)))ｶﾞｸｶﾞｸﾌﾞﾙﾌﾞﾙ

Personally, I want to applaud studio deen for the idea of putting these "end game" scenes up front, they really help to "jump start" the viewer's interest right off the bat. Rather than having a peaceful first episode (of a new chapter), these scenes really help the viewers (first-timers and game-vets alike) to snap to attention right from the beginning.

Spoiler for What Rika did:

Damn, the way Rika did herself in with that knife, that’s hardcore. I'm worried about what's going to happen to Mion by the time we get to that scene with her freaky laughing. Looks like another Oyashiro-Mode Mion.

Spoiler for screenshot of gags, and a sad Mion.:

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

-------------------------
Now then, into the episode,

"Tomida-kun, you're Satoko moe, right?" "And Okamura-kun, you're Rika moe, right?"
-------------------------


But still,

Mion kawaiiyo Mion~ ^^;

But still,

Shion kawaiiyo Shion~ ^^

But still,

Mion kawaiiyo Mion~ ^^;


...



Overall, I loved this episode, and I think all Mion/Shion lovers would love it too. ^^

Agreed.

The twins are cute and do so while evoking a range of emotions. Shion is hot in her meido outfit. She also shows some vulnerabilty with Keiichi. I like Mion looks so endearingly sad, and also being flustered with Keiichi.

Keiichi bribing Tomida-kun and Okamura-kun with Satoko and Rika, he's become a smooth player.

Like a breakfast cereal fortified and packed with vitamins and minerals, this episode with fortified and packed with moe and relationship intrigue.


------------------------------------

Can you imagine Mion's fictional whipping scene as a Punishment Game between sisters? How funny.


Clichéd, but fun shtick of punching the lecher.




I love the irony of Keiichi's humorous presumption about the food not being poisoned, and Rena's analogy of fixing Mion like a TV.

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Spoiler:

-------------------------

Sonozaki Shion's true nature, ladies and gentlemen (important).

Sonozaki Mion's true nature, ladies and gentlemen (important).

-------------------------

Spoiler for A tongue-in-cheek, question based on the above spoiler tab:

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Wait... Is it just me or did they raise Keiichi's hentai-level for the anime? ^^;

-------------------------

Keiichi’s true nature? Ladies and gentlemen..... important?...who knows!?

This where he must be keeping his rise in hentai-levels.


Courier^3 Hentai Inside Bag Black

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by SvenTheSweeper

Spoiler for A tongue-in-cheek, question based on the above spoiler tab:

-------------------------

Keiichi’s true nature? Ladies and gentlemen..... important?...who knows!?

This where he must be keeping his rise in hentai-levels.


Courier^3 Hentai Inside Bag Black

You have no idea. Keiichi's not only the "Magician of Words", his alternate identity, K, raises his moe knowledge skills to a godly level, allowing the use of his KOOL marble reality: bombarding his opponent with speeches about the Art of Moe at machine-gun speed until the said opponent breaks down into a sobbing mess from K's MANLINESS. K's not alone in his endeavors either, his "soul brothers", Cloud, Iri, and Tommy are all true MEN constantly striving for their ideals in the world of moe! (Who are they? Just like how "K" came from Keiichi, you should realize who these men are if you looked in Higurashi's character list).

No, I'm not making this up. Here's an example of Keiichi's reality marble:

Spoiler:

(I blew my coffee out around the part where the Venus statue and Mona Lisa were apparently moe products left behind by our ancestors)
(Notice near the end, even nouns like XBOX360 and PS3 came up. Yes, K's reality marble even breaks the barrier of time! )
Usual reaction from the girls,

Rena: "Keiichi-kun and _____-kun looks like they're having a lot of fun, but Rena can't follow what they're talking about at all--..."
Mion: "You don't have to follow them, just don't!"

If you're lucky, you'll get your first glimpse of "K" in Tatarigoroshi. ^^;

[Lemonhead]

Spoiler for opening scene:

Mion's laughing in the opening scene looked more like a "someone just stabbed themself to death in front of me, am i going crazy?" laugh, then a "ha ha die, i'm evil!" laugh. =p

-edit sorry didn't think it was spolierish, fixed now.

[aliensporebomb]

Putting Lemonheads' thoughts in a spoiler in case none of you saw it.

Originally Posted by Lemonhead

Spoiler:

Mion's laughing in the opening scene looked more like a "someone just stabbed themself to death in front of me, am i going crazy?" laugh, then a "ha ha die, i'm evil!" laugh. =p

I also had that thought and it's certainly possible but I also had a thought:

Spoiler:

Mafia / Syndicate / Yakuza style behavior. "You need to gain your honor back
by destroying yourself in front of me" type antics. Creepy.

We'll find out, maybe. Very disturbing show this is turning out to be.

My opinions:

Shion was taken aback by Keiichi's behavior in Angel Mort and probably rarely
ever experiences that kind of behavior from a customer or non-family member
due to her family influence in town hence her unexpected shyness.

Given what we saw with the townsfolk who quickly backed Shion up
when Keiichi was threatened by the street toughs I suspect if anyone
behaved that way towards her and if she didn't like it they probably
would find themselves wearing cement shoes in the river, dead as a
doornail.

Remember, this is the main family in town who prevented the dam
from coming in and destroying their homes/livelihoods. This inspires
big loyalty.

Anyway, I doubt we will see this surprised behavior from her again.

Later, you can really see what her true role is:
Shion = opportunist

"Oh yeah, I made the bento" - quick response.

She sees a good thing, realizing what her sister has been talking
to her about and has ideas of her own. Sisterly rivalries no doubt.

It's obvious Mion made a bento for Keiichi and gave it to him posing as Shion:
by doing this she was able to protect her identity and feelings a bit in case he
was not receptive.

Another reason she posed as Shion perhaps is that pretending to be
her more confident sister might let her get away with behavior she
might otherwise not attempt, sort of a self protection move.

Mion = likes Keiichi but isn't sure how to proceed, his presentation
of the doll to another girl maybe curdled her feelings inside a little bit.

I think deep down she wishes he'd notice her in a way she needs to
be noticed and he's still very much a boy and her behavior towards
him really is encouraging that boy banter response.

If Shion escalates her attentions to Keiichi then Mion's response could
range from interesting to really interesting. Jealousy indeed.

Next episode should be very interesting indeed.

[SvenTheSweeper]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

You have no idea. Keiichi's not only the "Magician of Words", his alternate identity, K, raises his moe knowledge skills to a godly level, allowing the use of his KOOL marble reality: bombarding his opponent with speeches about the Art of Moe at machine-gun speed until the said opponent breaks down into a sobbing mess from K's MANLINESS. K's not alone in his endeavors either, his "soul brothers", Cloud, Iri, and Tommy are all true MEN constantly striving for their ideals in the world of moe! (Who are they? Just like how "K" came from Keiichi, you should realize who these men are if you looked in Higurashi's character list).

No, I'm not making this up. Here's an example of Keiichi's reality marble:

Spoiler:

(I blew my coffee out around the part where the Venus statue and Mona Lisa were apparently moe products left behind by our ancestors)
(Notice near the end, even nouns like XBOX360 and PS3 came up. Yes, K's reality marble even breaks the barrier of time! )
Usual reaction from the girls,

Rena: "Keiichi-kun and _____-kun looks like they're having a lot of fun, but Rena can't follow what they're talking about at all--..."
Mion: "You don't have to follow them, just don't!"

If you're lucky, you'll get your first glimpse of "K" in Tatarigoroshi. ^^;

So K:

Spoiler:

uses it on girls? To what effect? I've come across the reality marble in one of the AS Threads, I assume it's in game thread.

[choia]

Question: is there any significance to the gun Mion carries? Will this arc explain the gun?

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by choia

Question: is there any significance to the gun Mion carries? Will this arc explain the gun?

Just to end this speculation - no. There is no significance to the gun. Besides, I never even thought about it in the first place. Since guns are illegal in Japan, I just assumed it was a water pistol or something. Besides, I wouldn't be that surprised to see Mion suddenly squirting the club members in their faces in their club activities.

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by aliensporebomb

Spoiler:

Mafia / Syndicate / Yakuza style behavior. "You need to gain your honor back
by destroying yourself in front of me" type antics. Creepy.

We'll find out, maybe. Very disturbing show this is turning out to be.

My opinions:

Shion was taken aback by Keiichi's behavior in Angel Mort and probably rarely
ever experiences that kind of behavior from a customer or non-family member
due to her family influence in town hence her unexpected shyness.

Given what we saw with the townsfolk who quickly backed Shion up
when Keiichi was threatened by the street toughs I suspect if anyone
behaved that way towards her and if she didn't like it they probably
would find themselves wearing cement shoes in the river, dead as a
doornail.

Remember, this is the main family in town who prevented the dam
from coming in and destroying their homes/livelihoods. This inspires
big loyalty.

Anyway, I doubt we will see this surprised behavior from her again.

Later, you can really see what her true role is:
Shion = opportunist

"Oh yeah, I made the bento" - quick response.

She sees a good thing, realizing what her sister has been talking
to her about and has ideas of her own. Sisterly rivalries no doubt.

It's obvious Mion made a bento for Keiichi and gave it to him posing as Shion:
by doing this she was able to protect her identity and feelings a bit in case he
was not receptive.

Another reason she posed as Shion perhaps is that pretending to be
her more confident sister might let her get away with behavior she
might otherwise not attempt, sort of a self protection move.

Mion = likes Keiichi but isn't sure how to proceed, his presentation
of the doll to another girl maybe curdled her feelings inside a little bit.

I think deep down she wishes he'd notice her in a way she needs to
be noticed and he's still very much a boy and her behavior towards
him really is encouraging that boy banter response.

If Shion escalates her attentions to Keiichi then Mion's response could
range from interesting to really interesting. Jealousy indeed.

Next episode should be very interesting indeed.

I can't answer to everything in there, but at least I can tell you what will be explained eventually:
1. Mion's shocked reactions whenever she sees Shion
2. Shion's reason for not living together with Mion
3. Shion's familiar attitude towards Keiichi right from the beginning
4. Shion's attitude/personality in general
5. The reason why nobody has ever head of Shion before
6. The reason for that sorrowful look Shion had on her face just before the break in this episode
7. The reason for Mion's depression
8...

Actually, you know what? I'm sure all the questions raised in this thread will be explained eventually + answers to things you probably never even thought about. Watanagashi-hen is very rich in contents (much more so than Onikakushi), and the mystery will only get deeper and deeper. It's probably one of the most involved chapters in the game (much more than it appears to be). Your best bet is to focus on the Sonozaki twins, and gather as much as you can about their personalities and their circumstances (as much as you can tell) from within this chapter.

Hopefully the anime doesn't cut out TOO much from the game, or else things might start getting... hard to figure out.

Remember those general tips:
1. Don't believe everything you see, and
2. What you have learned about a character's personality applies across ALL chapters (hint: this works both ways, something you know from a previous chapter may help you determine something in this chapter. Similarly, something you newly learned in this chapter may help you determine something from a past chapter as well)

Originally Posted by SvenTheSweeper

So K:

Spoiler:

uses it on girls? To what effect? I've come across the reality marble in one of the AS Threads, I assume it's in game thread.

No, K tends to only get knocked out if he tries it on girls, especially Rena. Rena can easily drop him (or anyone else, for that matter, even Iri in "Maid in Heaven" mode) like a brick.

Spoiler for off topic about Rena's fighting skill:

Speaking of which, the anime went through the entire Onikakushi-hen without showing Renapan or RFI (Rena Flash Impact) at all, what a pity. (Renapan refers to Rena's faster-than-lightning jabs. To this day, Keiichi still hasn't found a way to avoid Rena's punches (nobody has, for that matter))

You can play the Renapan minigame (which was featured in the game) here:
http://higurashi-cd.com/renapan/index.html
- pick your resolution
- press the top button to start the game
- basically, click on Rena's fist just before it hits you (when the fist becomes as large as the box) to dodge it
- after advancing far enough, Rena's RFI mode might activate. Click on the "flash" appearing in one of the corners of the screen to dodge the invisible fist
- if you get knocked out, click the second button to retry, first to return to menu, third to see ranking, forth to submit score

Originally Posted by choia

Question: is there any significance to the gun Mion carries? Will this arc explain the gun?

No, I don't think there's any meaning to the gun at all.

As far as I know, it's a model gun, not real. That and models guns are one of Mion's hobbies (and no, I don't think that has any significance either).

Edit: ah kj beat me to it.