Ore no Imouto - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[velvet]

Originally Posted by Key Board

This episode seriously offends the bakuman fan in me

I'm not really a fan of bakuman, but knowing the struggle for a story to be adapted into an anime, this episode bothered me a lot.
That aside, Kuroneko dazzled me pretty good this episode. I know it took a considerable strength to accept and admit the ugliness within you (the jealousy, the relief people get seeing others got hurt), and to the point of making even Kyousuke realized it.
The first half was a really turn off for me, for the aforementioned reason, but some have said that these arc is ended(?), hopefully it continued to be charming in the rest of its episodes. As for me, I'm hoping for more Kuroneko now thanks to this little discovery.

[Dist]

Kirino was soooo annoying in this episode... Was quite painful to watch actually. Fortunately Kuroneko was there and saved some of the episode.

[MeoTwister5]

It's almost strangely fitting that the most rational and in-control character in the entire series aside from the parents would sum up the entire problem with Kirino, and the show itself in particular, in one straight-faced yet passionate monologue.

Too many questions, not enough answers.

This was a perfect time for reality to finally bite Kirino in the ass and give her some perspective on her actions and intentions, which makes it suck that Kyousuke had to bail her out once again. On the other hand, it gave Kuroneko the perfect opportunity to sum everything up which I really, really hope would finally get tackled with the final life counseling event, which I assume is the final arc of the show. Kirino really needs to get jacked down from her high horse and made to see life and reality from the eyes of others. I was thinking that I should have been offended that things are going her way given the way she acts but hey, c'est la vie.

I do really hope that Kyousuke takes to heart what she said in the meeting to make him think just why he really does what he does, and to ask himself why Kirino is the way she is. If this episode succeeded in anything more than annoying me with Kirino and Kyousuke, it's that it verbalized most of everything I've been asking myself when this show started. Kuroneko was probably the first one to actively wonder why in the hell Kirino is the way she is, and maybe now Kyousuke will be forced to ask the same questions himself. As the representative extension of the viewer, Kyousuke's participation in the matter will hopefully allow us to learn and understand the way Kirino's mind works.

Returning to Kyousuke... my respect and sympathies for him almost became outright pity and "WTF dude!". The ultimate shame of grovelling and begging on her sisters behalf is something I'd expect one to do only in the most extreme and most life-threatening of cases short of killing and suicide. He's racking up the karma points for ridiculous ways and ridiculous reasons, and he'd better cash in the chips when the time comes. I'd be completely pissed if he doesn't.

Also slightly off-topic, but the amount of spoiler tagged LN posts in this thread just to even clarify most of anything in this show at this point only further reinforces my belief that the show is failing at bridging the gap between reader and viewer, again putting anime-only viewers at a disadvantage that makes discussions on the show pretty one sided when someone can just come out and whip out an LN spoiler to reinforce their point. One of the reasons I don't really feel like talking about the show sometimes anymore if I'm just going to feel like I'm posting things in ignorance.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

I was hoping the episode won't end up this way but it did.

The problem I have with this episode is that the episode is bill as an original work but it ends up as a "wannabe" (yes it's a pun from the LN)

Since the arc is closed and other has already mentioned original conflic in LN, here's a more detailed summary on what was supposed to happen based on LN for all who are intrested for comparison:

Spoiler for Detailed summery for the LN event to be compare with Anime:

It starts the same as the first half of last episode where Kirino and Kuroneko had fight concerning their respective works and views on Meruru. A month after, Kirino mentions to Kyosuko that she was approach by an editor and that her cell-novel "Mei-Sora" will be getting published if it received 1 million view points.(it currently sits at roughly 350,000) Because of this good news, Kirino demands Kyosuke to accompany her on gathering materials for the rest of her novel and its planned sequel "Mei-Sora 2"

The Christmas "date" went on as the second-half of last episode except in a bit more detail and the author also shown as few plot points on what "Mei-sora" is like (an obviously messed-up plot in contrast of the real life work "Koi-Sora" that the title parody on) The only major difference is that the anime made the much debated water-bucket scene more ambiguous as if Kirino was try to get Kyosuke's attention while he was walking away complaining about the date and her novel. In the novel, Kyosuke only complains through inner-dialogues but still went along with Kirino. He was also looking at Kirino directly as she dumped the water on herself. LN also make it obvious that it was done solely because Kirino wasted to experience what her main character has went through. Unlike anime, she refused Kyosuke's coat and commented that she want to feel what it would be like a like more which shows Kyosuke her dedication to her own work that anime failed to capture.

During New Years break, Ayase mentioned to Kyosuke that Kirino is working too hard lately on everything and has beginning to show signs of fatigue and symptoms of minor cold. She ask Kyosuke to pay attention to her condition. It was too late, by the time school starts, Kirino is having a really bad flu and is getting worse. As Kyosuke bringing food to her room one time, he noticed Kirino was acting weird. After a bit of pressing Kirino mentioned that her novel is slotted to be published and the author "Rino" in billed as a rising star. Kyosuke was excited but was also confused as Kirino does not look happy at all.

Kirino explained that Rino is not her pen name and she had not heard from the editor since the initial contact. She tried to get to the bottom of it by using the business card she was given but she can't get into contact with the editor and receives no response from the voicemails that she left. Even worse, she gave her(the editor) the password for her online account and now she can't access it to retrieve her draft because the password has been changed. Kyosuke was furious, but Kirino calms him down and DOWNPLAYS whole incident.

She told Kyosuke that she priority right is to get her health back and get back to her track team and modeling job. As for what happened, writing novel was just for fun and was nothing serious and it also meant that her novel was that good that someone was welling to steal from her. She can always write a better one later when she feels like it. However, Kyosuke knew that Kirino was just putting up a front and was actually hurting inside so he decides to act.

He call Saori and Kuroneko (who entered an arcade tournament during the break and is now the representative for the Chiba Prefecture with a badge to show for it) to discuss what happened. Despise Kuroneko's shock she is welling to help, but they can't find a way to get in contact with the publishing company. A few days later Saori, mysteriously got them a meeting with one of its editors using the excuse they have a work that they want to show to an editing staff.

As result, Kuroneko brought her own novel with Kyosuke pose as her brother to meet with the LN editor. They're plan was to use Kuroneko's work as a front so they can find the editor that was on the card Kirino was given. During the meeting, Kuroneko's work was harshly critiqued and rejected with Kuroneko shown emotionally shaken and broke down in tear. Kyosuke was furious about the whole thing because he knew how hard both Kuroneko and Kirino work on their stuff. After Kuroneko calmed down and she calmed Kyosuke down she noted that she would not give up and got the editor to agrees to critique her future works. The editor then hands her his card. As Kyosuke try to get into discussion about "Mei-Sora" they noticed that the name on the card was the as the one that Kirino was given except that Kirino mentioned that the editor was a "she". Kyosuke and Kuroneko realized that "Rino" must posed as her real editor and stole the work. They presented their case and showed the business card that was given to Kirino. The editor revealed that the name on the card is indeed him and that cell-novel division is the same as light-novel division.

A few days after, the editor arranged a meeting between "Rino", aka Fate (real name Iori Fate Sena) and Kuro-Kyo (BTW, Fate hates her real name because she sounded like an teen-anime character while Kuroneko can't suppress her excitement after learning the fact) . Kuro-Kyo presented their case but Fate asks for evidence and noted that she have the original draft as well as the access to the account and openly shown displeasure to her editor about arranging this meeting. The editor said that this situation require delicate hadling. Kyosuke shows Fate the notes and materials that Kirino collected but Fate counter back that those note were fake and was only made after they read the novel. Kyosuke countered back with pictures taken during Christmas "date" showing that at time the novel is not yet published nor was it finished online at time.

Fate then countered back that it must be a coincident and its not a concrete proof. Kyosuke than state that one of reason that Fate is here to date is to discuss Mei-Sora sequel so so he shows the editor that he has the drafts for the "Mei-Sora 2" and asks the editor to review it along this Fate's draft and believe that the real draft will not lose to the fake one.

The editor read both drafts and declare that Kirino's draft is the real one. He noted that while Fate tried to use similar wording, grammar and construction, there are still some subtle different. In addition Fate's draft lacks the originality and spontaneous surprises that the original had while Kirino's draft have both of these components.

Fate still denies. Kuroneko then snaps and given the lecture/rant that was in the second half of this episode minus the anime part. Kyosuke realized that Fate isn't a bad person and she was just like aspiring writer. So he follows Kuroneko's rant by saying that he loves people like Kuroneko and Fate who, despise failures, keeps on chasing their dream and then he falls on his knees (aka the anime) and beg Fate sympathize with Kirino and and tell the truth. Fate than finally told the truth than start to lament that Kuroneko is very similar to her back than but over time she lost her self-confidence but is now ready to start over. She finally noted that she now understand why the conversations in Mei-Sora is in such a broken language, it was because they're based on the way Kyosuke and KuroNeko talks and asks why they are welling to go that far for their sister (they didn't explain that Kuro-Kyo are not real siblings so by extension Fate thought Kirino is their sister) despiste they both souneded like they didn't like her. Kuroneko responded that because "she didn't have many friends"

In the end, Fate confess she stole Kirino's work because her idea is very interesting but noted that the if it was a few years ago, she would have wanted to kill Kirino for her immature writing skill (aka, Kuroneko's critiques from earlier). Fate contacted Kirino and explain the situation and along with the editor they visited Kirino after she recovers from her flu and apologized to her. Kirino forgives them and they them decided to keep it behind the scene and keep the pen name "Rino". Mei-Sora become big hit and Mei-Sora 2 is slotted to be published as well. After Kirino told Kyosuke what happens after, she got mad again similar to anime but it was because she can't get over the fact that it seems everything was already taken care of by itself while she was sick and she didn't get to do anything.

Half-month after, Kirino mentioned that she won't write anymore books because it was taken way her time to do other more important stuff. Kyosuke comes back asking if it is was because it was taking away her time to play eroge, to which Kirino agrees. Kyosuke lament the fact that some people work their whole life trying to get their work published and Kirino easily gets it and then simply gives it away and wonders what Kuroneko would feel after she heard the news. Meanwhile both Kuroneko and Saori come to their house to play. Kuroneko brought stacks of reviews with her about Mei-Sora. Kirino starts to read them and than realize they are entirely consist of negative reviews. As Kirino and Kuroneko fights again, Kirino noticed that the address of the web review site are the same and looks familiar and it turns out to be Kuroneko's personal website....

Saori then diffused the tension by asking what they should do and suggest that they should play the game they played when they first met: Answering the question "What's your most awkward moment lately?" and the winner would decide what they should do next. Kuroneko said that it's when Kyosuke told her he likes her. [back at the meeting] Kirino is furious and another fight assure with Saori fuming the fire. Saori then say her recent moment was when she went on an arranged date by her parents in her otaku getup. [Again, Saori is only 15, just like Kuroneko]. Finally, Kirino won the contest because the eroge that she bought recently "SM Anaki" which she thought was an imouto game, ends up to be an eroge about muscular gay men. After Kuroneko and Saori left, Kirino mentioned that the next life counselling will be the last one.

Spoiler for Responding to what Undertaker revealed:

... Those are some pretty massive changes. I mean, these aren't some minor alterations or plot substitutions that end up having more or less the same effect.

By going with this apparently anime original plot instead of what you revealed above, AIC has made Kirino and Kyousuke look much worse than they did in the light novel.

From the sounds of it, Kirino comes off much better in the original LN story that the anime here decided to utterly change.

Kyousuke coming to his sister's aid to prevent her creative work from being stolen from her makes a whole heck of a lot more sense than Kyousuke just trying to help his sister get an anime adaptation more to her liking.

In the light novel, Kyousuke is genuinely heroic here.

In this anime, he's an awful enabler.

The difference is huge.

I'm flabbergasted at what the anime producers could possibly be thinking here. Why would they make changes like this that so obviously make the two leading characters much less sympathetic, and cast much more in a negative light?

Really big mistake by the anime producers.

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by keroro gunsou

Now,I decided to read LN reading your post. I have not read LN & manga of this series. But i felt this anime didnt scribe enough about each character,didnt develop each characters depth. I shoul read LN...

you should, it's a really good read. I wasn't too hot on it when I went back to Taiwan earlier this year simply because of its title, but they were promoting the series pretty heavily and lots people in the store were saying this series is great so I bought the first 4.

After I came back to U.S. and read them I was completely hooked, and went online and bought the next 2. Too bad the official Chinese translation doesn't come out that quick so I read the fansubs for volume 7 online but I will buy it once Chinese version is out.

Other than the last 2 episodes, the series were pretty well adapted, but there are a lot of setting and character related issue/development for a plot that was pretty well constructed compare to LN.

This is one of those series that really got shafted by the constraint of it's length. similar to Toradora which had some pacing issue towards the end, and would benefit be having and extra 5-6 episodes. With Oreimo being a 1-cour series, there is not enough length to conver the original material. The natural breaking point is volume 5 and I believe the perfect length for it would be 15-17 episodes. but that's not enough for a 2-cour. The pacing issue gets more and more apparent after volume 3 where the lack of character setting is starting to really shows itself.

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Also slightly off-topic, but the amount of spoiler tagged LN posts in this thread just to even clarify most of anything in this show at this point only further reinforces my belief that the show is failing at bridging the gap between reader and viewer, again putting anime-only viewers at a disadvantage that makes discussions on the show pretty one sided when someone can just come out and whip out an LN spoiler to reinforce their point. One of the reasons I don't really feel like talking about the show sometimes anymore if I'm just going to feel like I'm posting things in ignorance.

I'm feeling your pain, I would love to talk about the anime only, but this adaption is not letting me do so because the question that most anime viewers had are right in the novel. What went wrong was the basic characterization and setting were taken off due to the length of the show. It would be different if this series was like say Asobi ni Iku Yo where there are not much development with the plot and the format is more episodic where its easy to grasp the character's personality and feelings.

In stead of the anime filling in the blanks of LN, the LN is filling in the blanks for the anime. At this point it is really hard to see what the animation team is trying to accomplish here. It almost like Kuroneko's fan-fiction that requires 200+ of reference to understand the reason behind each character's action at this point.

The series were fine with the first 4 episodes, yeah there are still lack of info to tie everything together, but it was controlled at acceptable level and then episode 5-8 just destroys it. I rather they rip apart everything and did what Full Metal Alchemist (1st series) and Bamboo Blade did and re-work the whole damn thing instead of them doing what they are doing right now. They can still get back to what LN is and end at its natual point, but it'll be abrupt and ends as a series with good begging and ending but shitty middle.

I'm flabbergasted at what the anime producers could possibly be thinking here. Why would they make changes like this that so obviously make the two leading characters much less sympathetic, and cast much more in a negative light?

My guess is tsundere and emo-girls sells but they mess it up by having too much "tusn" and not enough "dere" as I remember someone mention it in this forum before. Then they try to get some sympathy votes back only Kirino is not the type of girl to you'll give sympathy votes for and anime team had already did away all the reasons Kirino should get sympathy with.

[ion475]

This is one of those series that really got shafted by the constraint of it's length. similar to Toradora which had some pacing issue towards the end, and would benefit be having and extra 5-6 episodes. With Oreimo being a 1-cour series, there is not enough length to conver the original material. The natural breaking point is volume 5 and I believe the perfect length for it would be 15-17 episodes. but that's not enough for a 2-cour. The pacing issue gets more and more apparent after volume 3 where the lack of character setting is starting to really shows itself.

Volume 4 is a more natural breaking point anyway (Fushimi said that himself as Volume 4 being "end of 1st half"). So naturally, being a 12 episodes anime, adapting up to volume 4 makes the most logical sense.

Makes me wonder why they keep rushing stuff last few episodes, then suddenly throw out half-original stuff this episode that makes no sense. As I said already, they could have take out (or modify) Kuroneko's speech if that's make the episode more logical, but no, they want to be faithful to the LN, and decided to throw that in anyway. Then, you can see Saori being nothing more than a background character, of course, she doesn't even appear in this part (other than those meeting in restaurant), and serve no purpose anyway...

Although one fact is certain - it's hard to like Kirino even if you read the LN. But then, by volume 3, Kirino is already showing much more dere. Anime = turn Kirino from Tsun 7 Dere 3 into Tsun 9.5 Dere 0.5, talk about inverse development of a character...

The series were fine with the first 4 episode, yeah there are still lack or info to tie everything together, but it was controlled at acceptable level than episode 5-8 just destroys it. I rather they rip apart everything and did what Full Metal Alchemist (1st series) and Bamboo Blade did and re-work the whole damn thing instead of them doing what they are doing right now.

[off topic]This series not so much...Angel Beats, on the other hand...definitely need a remake[/off topic]

Base on the title, next episode seem to jump directly to the end of volume 4 as expected, as volume 4 does not have a central plot.

Next episode is another original episode I believe. Unless they mix in a part of the Drama CD original (The Ayase part...).

[Fnights]

Mmmmm, so so, a bit boring episode, kuroneko save the day.
Overall 5/10.

[Kopi]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

I was hoping the episode won't end up this way but it did.

The problem I have with this episode is that the episode is bill as an original work but it ends up as a "wannabe" (yes it's a pun from the LN)

I don't have problem with original works. What I do have problem is that instead of rewrite the dialogues and scenes for Kyosuke and Kuroneko for the confrontation, they decided to keep the respective scenes and majority of dialogs and adds Saori into mix. As result, the confrontation looks awkward and illogical.

The scenes espicially looks bad for Kyosuke. In LN, and so far in the anime, whenever Kyosuke goes and defend Kirino or arguing for her, he always has facts and somewhat logical argument with him. But in this episode, his begging scene makes him looks like a drama queen that is all emotional and zero common sense. The reason why this happens is percislt because they changed everything else in this episode but somehow decided to keep the begging theme and Kuroneko's lecture. While Kuroneko's line still fit somewhat (though still awkward) Kyosuke's action is just baffling without the original content and it actually destroys a bit of his identity and character.

And while I don't like Kirino (even in LN). I have to say her character got further destroyed in this episode and being shown as an drama queen brat and all her good points were taken away.


Since the arc is closed and other has already mentioned original conflic in LN, here's a more detailed summary on what was supposed to happen based on LN for all who are intrested for comparison:

Spoiler for Detailed summery for the LN event to be compare with Anime:

It starts the same as the first half of last episode where Kirino and Kuroneko had fight concerning their respective works and views on Meruru. A month after, Kirino mentions to Kyosuko that she was approach by an editor and that her cell-novel "Mei-Sora" will be getting published if it received 1 million view points.(it currently sits at roughly 350,000) Because of this good news, Kirino demands Kyosuke to accompany her on gathering materials for the rest of her novel and its planned sequel "Mei-Sora 2"

The Christmas "date" went on as the second-half of last episode except in a bit more detail and the author also shown as few plot points on what "Mei-sora" is like (an obviously messed-up plot in contrast of the real life work "Koi-Sora" that the title parody on) The only major difference is that the anime made the much debated water-bucket scene more ambiguous as if Kirino was try to get Kyosuke's attention while he was walking away complaining about the date and her novel. In the novel, Kyosuke only complains through inner-dialogues but still went along with Kirino. He was also looking at Kirino directly as she dumped the water on herself. LN also make it obvious that it was done solely because Kirino wasted to experience what her main character has went through. Unlike anime, she refused Kyosuke's coat and commented that she want to feel what it would be like a like more which shows Kyosuke her dedication to her own work that anime failed to capture.

During New Years break, Ayase mentioned to Kyosuke that Kirino is working too hard lately on everything and has beginning to show signs of fatigue and symptoms of minor cold. She ask Kyosuke to pay attention to her condition. It was too late, by the time school starts, Kirino is having a really bad flu and is getting worse. As Kyosuke bringing food to her room one time, he noticed Kirino was acting weird. After a bit of pressing Kirino mentioned that her novel is slotted to be published and the author "Rino" in billed as a rising star. Kyosuke was excited but was also confused as Kirino does not look happy at all.

Kirino explained that Rino is not her pen name and she had not heard from the editor since the initial contact. She tried to get to the bottom of it by using the business card she was given but she can't get into contact with the editor and receives no response from the voicemails that she left. Even worse, she gave her(the editor) the password for her online account and now she can't access it to retrieve her draft because the password has been changed. Kyosuke was furious, but Kirino calms him down and DOWNPLAYS whole incident.

She told Kyosuke that she priority right is to get her health back and get back to her track team and modeling job. As for what happened, writing novel was just for fun and was nothing serious and it also meant that her novel was that good that someone was welling to steal from her. She can always write a better one later when she feels like it. However, Kyosuke knew that Kirino was just putting up a front and was actually hurting inside so he decides to act.

He call Saori and Kuroneko (who entered an arcade tournament during the break and is now the representative for the Chiba Prefecture with a badge to show for it) to discuss what happened. Despise Kuroneko's shock she is welling to help, but they can't find a way to get in contact with the publishing company. A few days later Saori, mysteriously got them a meeting with one of its editors using the excuse they have a work that they want to show to an editing staff.

As result, Kuroneko brought her own novel with Kyosuke pose as her brother to meet with the LN editor. They're plan was to use Kuroneko's work as a front so they can find the editor that was on the card Kirino was given. During the meeting, Kuroneko's work was harshly critiqued and rejected with Kuroneko shown emotionally shaken and broke down in tear. Kyosuke was furious about the whole thing because he knew how hard both Kuroneko and Kirino work on their stuff. After Kuroneko calmed down and she calmed Kyosuke down she noted that she would not give up and got the editor to agrees to critique her future works. The editor then hands her his card. As Kyosuke try to get into discussion about "Mei-Sora" they noticed that the name on the card is the same as the one that Kirino was given except that Kirino mentioned that the editor was a "she". Kyosuke and Kuroneko realized that "Rino" must posed as her real editor and stole the work. They presented their case and showed the business card that was given to Kirino. The editor revealed that the name on the card is indeed him and that cell-novel division is the same as light-novel division.

A few days after, the editor arranged a meeting between "Rino", aka Fate (real name Iori Fate Sena) and Kuro-Kyo (BTW, Fate hates her real name because she sounded like an teen-anime character while Kuroneko can't suppress her excitement after learning the fact) . Kuro-Kyo presented their case but Fate asks for evidences and noted that she have the original drafts as well as the access to the account and openly shown displeasure to her editor about arranging this meeting. The editor said that this situation require delicate hadling. Kyosuke shows Fate the notes and materials that Kirino collected but Fate counter back that those note were fake and was only made after they read the novel. Kyosuke countered back with pictures taken during Christmas "date" showing that at time the novel is not yet published nor was it finished online at time.

Fate then countered back that it must be a coincident and it's not a concrete proof. Kyosuke than state that one of the reason that Fate was here to date is to discuss Mei-Sora's sequel so he shows the editor the drafts for the "Mei-Sora 2" and asks the editor to review it along with Fate's draft and cited that the real draft will not lose to the fake one.

The editor read both drafts and declare that Kirino's draft is the real one. He noted that while Fate tried to use similar wording, grammar and construction, there are still some subtle differences. In addition, Fate's draft lacks the originality and spontaneous surprises that the original had while Kirino's draft have both of these components.

Fate still denies. Kuroneko then snaps and given the lecture/rant that was in the second half of this episode minus the anime part. Kyosuke realized that Fate isn't a bad person and she was just like other aspiring writers except she was at her breaking point. So he follows Kuroneko's rant by saying that he loves people like Kuroneko and Fate who, despise failures, keeps on chasing their dream and then he falls on his knees (aka the anime) and beg Fate to sympathize with Kirino and and tell the truth. Fate then finally told the truth and start to lament that Kuroneko is very similar to her back then but over time she has lost her self-confidence but is now ready to start over. She finally noted that she now understand why the conversations in Mei-Sora is in such a broken language, it was because they're based on the way Kyosuke and KuroNeko talks and asks why they are welling to go that far for their sister (they didn't explain that Kuro-Kyo are not real siblings so by extension Fate thought Kirino is their sister) despiste they both souneded like they didn't like her. Kuroneko responded that because "she didn't have many friends"

In the end, Fate confess she stole Kirino's work because her idea is very interesting but noted that the if it was a few years ago, she would have wanted to kill Kirino for her immature writing skill (aka, Kuroneko's critiques from earlier). Fate contacted Kirino and explain the situation and along with the editor they visited Kirino after she recovers from her flu and apologized to her. Kirino forgives them and then they decided to keep it behind the scene and keep the pen name "Rino". Mei-Sora become big hit and Mei-Sora 2 is slotted to be published as well. After Kirino told Kyosuke what happens after, she got mad again similar to anime but it was because she can't get over the fact that it seems everything was already taken care of by itself while she was sick and she didn't get to do anything.

Half-month after, Kirino mentioned that she won't write anymore books because it was taken way her time to do other more important stuff. Kyosuke comes back asking if it is was because it was taking away her time to play eroge, to which Kirino agrees. Kyosuke lament the fact that some people work their whole life trying to get their work published and Kirino easily gets it and then simply gives it away and wonders what Kuroneko would feel after she heard the news. Meanwhile both Kuroneko and Saori come to their house to play. Kuroneko brought stacks of reviews with her about Mei-Sora. Kirino starts to read them and than realize they are entirely consist of negative reviews. As Kirino and Kuroneko fights again, Kirino noticed that the address of the web review site are the same and looks familiar and it turns out to be Kuroneko's personal website....

Saori then diffused the tension by asking what they should do and suggest that they should play the game they played when they first met: Answering the question "What's your most awkward moment lately?" and the winner would decide what they should do next. Kuroneko said that it's when Kyosuke told her he likes her. [back at the meeting] Kirino is furious and another fight assure with Saori fuming the fire. Saori then say her recent moment was when she went on an arranged date by her parents in her otaku getup. [Again, Saori is only 15, just like Kuroneko]. Finally, Kirino won the contest because the eroge that she bought recently "SM Anaki" which she thought was an imouto game, ends up to be an eroge about muscular gay men. After Kuroneko and Saori left, Kirino mentioned that the next life counselling will be the last one.

Base on the title, next episode seem to jump directly to the end of volume 4 as expected, as volume 4 does not have a central plot.

As an anime only viewer, I found this episode as good as the previous ones.. nothing wrong.. till I saw this .. what gives.. this has better development..
and this

Spoiler for quote:

As result, Kuroneko brought her own novel with Kyosuke pose as her brother to meet with the LN editor. They're plan was to use Kuroneko's work as a front so they can find the editor that was on the card Kirino was given. During the meeting, Kuroneko's work was harshly critiqued and rejected with Kuroneko shown emotionally shaken and broke down in tear. Kyosuke was furious about the whole thing because he knew how hard both Kuroneko and Kirino work on their stuff.

A side of Kuroneko that we anime only viewer won't get to see.. gone

[Seihai]

7/10
I'm not too negatively biased towards any character so I don't dislike Kirino, but I'd say the most striking part for me was when Kyousuke said that he hated Kirino a lot in his mind. Still, I should hope that all Kirino needs is a good old setting straight to throw her back on the -dere path, 'cause what Kyousuke does is only support her tsun which is great and all but I felt he tried to play the idiot this episode, which he did.

And whow, pretty diversive rating for supposedly being the best anime this season for many.

[Triple_R]

I would strongly encourage every anime-only viewer (like myself) to read what Undertaker revealed under the spoiler section in his post here, from earlier on in this thread.

I don't think it's too spoilerrific of what is to come, and it also shows where this anime is really diverging quite a bit from the source material, and that's greatly impacting how many of us (including myself) are viewing Kirino and Kyousuke.

With such incredible irony, this might be one of the worst cases of an anime butchering its source material that I've ever seen.

[ion475]

And whow, pretty diversive rating for supposedly being the best anime this season for many.

The rating can probably be divided into 3 groups:
1. Those that have read the LN - give much lower rating (5-7, and obviously the 1's and 2's) for obvious reason.
2. Those that have only watch the anime and don't seems to see what's wrong with the episode (8-10)
3. Those who always rate every episode with a 6 or 7 but keep watching the series for some reason.

Given that group 1, who usually rate the episodes 8-10 (This is the first episode that I didn't rate 9 or 10, for obvious reason), now rate it down to 5-7, you got the diversive rating.

[DragoonKain3]

Not too keen on this episode (three guesses as to why lol), but goddamn, I love Kuroneko. Especially the way Hanazawa delivers her lines. Not quite mai waifu status, but darn close to it. <3

LOL@ the LN events. What is talked about this episode is highly ironic indeed.

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by ion475

Volume 4 is a more natural breaking point anyway (Fushimi said that himself as Volume 4 being "end of 1st half"). So naturally, being a 12 episodes anime, adapting up to volume 4 makes the most logical sense.

Makes me wonder why they keep rushing stuff last few episodes, then suddenly throw out half-original stuff this episode that makes no sense. As I said already, they could have take out (or modify) Kuroneko's speech if that's make the episode more logical, but no, they want to be faithful to the LN, and decided to throw that in anyway. Then, you can see Saori being nothing more than a background character, of course, she doesn't even appear in this part (other than those meeting in restaurant), and serve no purpose anyway...

Although one fact is certain - it's hard to like Kirino even if you read the LN. But then, by volume 3, Kirino is already showing much more dere. Anime = turn Kirino from Tsun 7 Dere 3 into Tsun 9.5 Dere 0.5, talk about inverse development of a character...



[off topic]This series not so much...Angel Beats, on the other hand...definitely need a remake[/off topic]




Next episode is another original episode I believe. Unless they mix in a part of the Drama CD original (The Ayase part...).

Really V4? I have to double check on that because the I think the seires would be really weird ending at v4 unless the production of season 2 set in stone.

But totally agree with you, the best tsundere (imo) are alway 3 tsun, 7 dere or 4:6. Haruhi of being 6:4 is already pushing the boundary. Kirino been a 7:3 in novel is already unlikeable and she did have the any "super-dere" scene or unique traits to balance it out a bit like Hitagi Senjōgahara. It's the setting that Kyosuke is her brother and the fact that there seems to be some reason behind her tsun that saves her, but Anime is not making her sympathetic by jacking up her tsun and taking away her dere.


As for Angel Beat, I do want to see a re-make, but that series doesn't have much original material to speak on and with Key involved what we see is what we get a nice little sad story that you can't help to wish for a better ending.


As for the next episode, I guess I'm focusing too much on the Eroge part of the title.

Originally Posted by ion475

The rating can probably be divided into 3 groups:
1. Those that have read the LN - give much lower rating (5-7, and obviously the 1's and 2's) for obvious reason.
2. Those that have only watch the anime and don't seems to see what's wrong with the episode (8-10)
3. Those who always rate every episode with a 6 or 7 but keep watching the series for some reason.

Given that group 1, who usually rate the episodes 8-10 (This is the first episode that I didn't rate 9 or 10, for obvious reason), now rate it down to 5-7, you got the diversive rating.

I'm one of the people downgrade from an 8 to a 6. I was expecting an original episode that will have similar effect to the stuff it replaced but instead I got a wannabe that is a shell of itself that don't really make any sense.


I can bypass last episode's date part and write it off as necessary evil and still give it a 8 but not this one I just can't rationalize this episode even when I try to block away all the LN stuff, it only make things worse.

Again, I have nothing against original material but I hate when it ends up being just a shadow of itself. If they are going to keep the scenes at the end, why change the rest and ends up taking away the impact of the scene and destroys the character process. Even talk strictly anime, Kyosuke is acting unlike himself compare to past couple episode, and there is no dere in Kirino anymore and they cut away more Kuroneko goodness and while she still shines in the episode, her words still felt a bit awkward.....

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Not too keen on this episode (three guesses as to why lol), but goddamn, I love Kuroneko. Especially the way Hanazawa delivers her lines. Not quite mai waifu status, but darn close to it. <3

LOL@ the LN events. What is talked about this episode is highly ironic indeed.

I'm actually beginning to think that way too, this episode succeed on showing what not-to-do with anime adaption...

[Haak]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

LOL@ the LN events. What is talked about this episode is highly ironic indeed.

The poetic irony is just too much for me. XD

[Eater of All]

This is the reason I'm glad that I'm an anime-only watcher; it saves me alot of RAEG when the adaptation goes haywire, while I can always go for the source material later for maximum enjoyment. It lets me see the story in the episode for what it is instead of what it isn't.

And in this case, I can see that the part where Kirino, a middle-schooler, gets an anime for a shitty self-insert fanfic is pretty ridiculous, but I thought it was also that sheer ridiculousness that made the message of jealousy Kuroneko was conveying much more pronounced. The thing is, most stories tend to circle around the outside where it's all butterflies and flowers; this one though actually delved into the darker aspects which bind people to people, in this case by having Kyousuke/Kuroneko admiting their envy of Kirino, a child clearly loved by God. The juxtaposition between Kyousuke's envy for Kirino and his caring for his sister is a topic I hope will get revisited sometime down the road again.

But yeah on the other hand, having Kirino's friends and her brother be nukes that can blow away problems with a single button is starting to get irritating and detrimental for the story. Sometimes I wonder if something is motivating Kyousuke other than that simple "because I'm her brother" sentiment. His babying her almost borders on the edge of obsession... almost as if he's trying to repay some kind of debt.

[Mr. Anime]

well one thing was made transparent, the fact that many original storys (be it manga or light novel) are often botched when they are made into an anime. ALL THX TO THE GUYS WHO PRODUCED SPICE AND WOLF, that was a good job. i thought oreimo was pretty decent at the start, but now its easy to see all the holes in the story which leads to a heavy decrease of enjoyment.

[frubam]

Kuroneko was(and is) awesome, Kyosuke being such a sandbag for his sister is really pissin' me off, and Kirino is a bitch, esp what she did at the end. I hope when Kirino falls, she falls HARD, like, close to suicide levels.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Haak

The poetic irony is just too much for me. XD

I'm convinced that a central purpose of this episode was to troll the light novel readers. It's not like the author didn't know perfectly well how significantly this episode was deviating from the source material when he wrote it (it's the same writer who did the script for all the other episodes too!), which is why it's actually an episode about deviating from the source material. And just look at how furious the novel readers in this thread have gotten about it, and how serious they are that the novels are being pillaged by the anime writer! I'm totally flabbergasted that people haven't seen through the rather obvious game that's being played! Like, really, you don't get the joke?

In before someone says "I get the joke but don't find it funny". That's even worse.

Anime is serious business.

[ion475]

But totally agree with you, the best tsundere (imo) are alway 3 tsun, 7 dere or 4:6. Haruhi of being 6:4 is already pushing the boundary. Kirino been a 7:3 in novel is already unlikeable and she did have the any "super-dere" scene or unique traits to balance it out a bit like Hitagi Senjōgahara. It's the setting that Kyosuke is her brother and the fact that there seems to be some reason behind her tsun that saves her, but Anime is not making her sympathetic by jacking up her tsun and taking away her dere.

And to think back I complained about Ayana voicing Kirino is not tsun enough way back when 1st episode air, guess not...

It's not like 9:1 tsun:dere ratio doesn't work for me. Right now Kirino is not even a tsundere anymore, more like tsun without the dere. Well, good adaptation (Even though Kirino do have her dere moment in LN) for early part. Is it annoying? Yes. But then you have Kyousuke being a tsundere himself and not admitting that his reason for keep helping Kirino is more than "she's my sister", more like he's a siscon...

Really V4? I have to double check on that because the I think the seires would be really weird ending at v4 unless the production of season 2 set in stone.

There's not much real "breaking" point in the series. Even though Vol. 4 maybe a good break point, it still has somewhat of a cliffhanger (towards Vol. 5) ending. Vol. 5 just doesn't feel like a good point to split the series. Although, if there's season 2 and it start at Vol. 5, at least they can finally have "Ore no Kuroneko ga Konna ni Kawaii Wake ga Nai" as episode title...

And yeah, as I mentioned way back in first page, it's almost an irony / self-parody on the staff that create this episode...

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by Mr. Anime

well one thing was made transparent, the fact that many original storys (be it manga or light novel) are often botched when they are made into an anime. ALL THX TO THE GUYS WHO PRODUCED SPICE AND WOLF, that was a good job. i thought oreimo was pretty decent at the start, but now its easy to see all the holes in the story which leads to a heavy decrease of enjoyment.

I agree, Spice and wolf was anime adaption done right, its short and sweet and didn't cut away stuff that would be detrimental to the character. To Aru series that done pretty well so far as well as for as anime adaption goes.

Too bad, I really had high hope for this one and love the series so far until really, this episode.

To be clear, I have no problem with the episode been about anime adaption part, what I had problem was that they virtually kept Kuroneko's rant and Kyosuke's begging in tact. which to me felt really awkward even without LN influence.

Like Eater of All said, yeah, the anime want to make Kirino the child love by God, I get that, but its getting too far to a point where its impossible to like her, and now they are dragging Kyosuke along for the ride. The excuse of "I'm her brother" just doesn't convince me anymore and it makes me have to re-read LN just to make me believe in their characters again and I don't want to do that.

I really wanted to enjoy this sereis on its own with having to go back to LN to fill in critical information that would filled the gap.

I just can't help but wonder how they can show any character progression with 4 more episodes?

BTW, V3 is my least favorite book and I only skip through it and didn't really read it. Which was the one reason I can't wait to watch this episodeb before. But after watching it, it just makes no sense to me and I fail to connect this episode to the prior episodes and can't figure out why the character acts they way they did that had me go back and actually read the volume through and post that summary...



As for what relentlessflame is saying, I have to agree that the only purpose I can think of for thsi episode is exactly that. I'll still watch through this series but I'm hoping for FMA (1st series), Bamboo Blade, Dragonball GT type of result where I can say it was not source material, but it was a damn good series in its own right.

I'm now can't wait for ep 9 after reading about its synopsis, sound like another original work and it better turns out better than this one.