AnimeSuki Forums

orion · 2008-05-01, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

I'm also interested by the changing of the sea colour, the man-shaped outline, the fact that the Adam/lilth (i forget) seems to be resting in a different place, the fact he woke up on something that seems like the moon, but with a red SCAR across it.

Actually, Lilith is hanging out in her usual spot being the LCL supplier and unfortunately wiggling away. I was truly sympathetic towards Lilith this time.

Adam hasn't been shown yet in this version.

And the new Angel on the moon was called the Third Angel with Operation Yashima's Angel demoted to #6 instead of being #5 from the TV series. Also Angels 3 and 4 from the TV series became Angels 4 and 5 in this movie. So it looks like with have an extra angel and new numbers.

cors8 · 2008-05-01, 22:17

I recall the mask of the original Lilith to be quite different from the mask of the current one hanging in Terminal Dogma.

The one on the moon reminds me of the original though.

Kobukson · 2008-05-02, 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by cors8

I recall the mask of the original Lilith to be quite different from the mask of the current one hanging in Terminal Dogma.

The one on the moon reminds me of the original though.

The Lilith in the movie did have a different mask and the "Angel" seen on the moon does appear to have a mask quite similar to the Lilith TV version. Here's a comparison: http://www.teddy-o-ted.com/movies/re...angelion-10/8/

I hope they have a good reason for doing it since I prefer the 7 Eyes of God mask on Lilith.

Blaat · 2008-05-02, 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by orion

And the new Angel on the moon was called the Third Angel with Operation Yashima's Angel demoted to #6 instead of being #5 from the TV series. Also Angels 3 and 4 from the TV series became Angels 4 and 5 in this movie. So it looks like with have an extra angel and new numbers.

I wouldn't be surprised if they removed one of the Angels (personally I'm thinking of the giant spider one) so that the numbering fits at the end.

Renegade334 · 2008-05-02, 04:06

Yoshiyuki Sadamoto was even more radical in the manga, though, as he weeded out several 'minor' Angels such as Matariel, Sandalphon and Ireul as they probably didn't provide much development to his own vision of Eva. Considering what Gendo said during Operation Yashima, I think GAINAX is going to follow the same path.

If we gather all (new and old) Angels in a list, we'll have:

Spoiler:

orion · 2008-05-02, 07:43

But...

Spoiler for Angels list:

Renegade334 · 2008-05-02, 07:49

I doubt Gendo bothered to include it in his 'still-eight-more-to-go' count. If anything, he knows he can't win against humanity, whereas the other Angels can still be beaten by an Eva. Besides, I also don't think he'd refer to his peers as 'Angels', so I deliberately left it out of the above list.

JMvS · 2008-05-02, 08:06

I did notice the "8 remaining angels" mentionned by Gendo when the sixth showed up, but I tought it may be inclusive, making a total of 13 angels, or "apostles", which seems to me a much more "intersting" number, regarding the judeo-christian inspiration of the show.

So would 13 Shito instead of 14 be likely?

Iriliane · 2008-05-02, 12:53

Spoiler for Angel list and Major spoilers for the original series.:

Xellos-_^ · 2008-05-02, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Yoshiyuki Sadamoto was even more radical in the manga, though, as he weeded out several 'minor' Angels such as Matariel, Sandalphon and Ireul as they probably didn't provide much development to his own vision of Eva. Considering what Gendo said during Operation Yashima, I think GAINAX is going to follow the same path.

If we gather all (new and old) Angels in a list, we'll have:

Spoiler:

I rather they keep Leliel, as the scene of Shinji breaking out of Leliel was one of my most favorite scenes eve in Eva.

JMvS · 2008-05-02, 16:33

Spoiler for about angels:

Xellos-_^ · 2008-05-02, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMvS

Spoiler for about angels:

Spoiler:

ZODDGUTS · 2008-05-02, 23:45

Just finished watching the movie really enjoyed it though it lacked any big impact for me, most likely because I already seen the TV series so I already knew what was going to happen in the movie except some of the changes they made especially the awesome ending with a certain character.

SuperKnuckles · 2008-05-03, 04:16

I'm surprised that after watching it whole, it still leaves an impression on me. But then again, Evangelion was (and still is) a pretty unique beast with the wild abandon of emotions it trudges out (in good and bad ways).

The visuals, as expected (I still begrudge the lack of TRUE High Def. DVDs? Those almost feel quaint to me) is quite amazing and the new technologies allowed the director to go even crazier with the show of force and armaments. It certainly is better than watching the cel-shaded eyesore they were at times.

But in a way, I wonder: Why didn't they just remake the actual anime series then put on the new endings if they wanted?

JMvS · 2008-05-03, 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

But in a way, I wonder: Why didn't they just remake the actual anime series then put on the new endings if they wanted?

I think that's because theater movies allow much more freedom:
-you don't get burdened by the logistical hell a weekly broadcast can become for a serie.
-movies do not need to follow the rules of anime series: cliffhangers every 20 min, brigth colors, 1 figth per 20 min as a minima: much more freedom in timing and arts.
-I suppose also the theatrical release is something more profitable than a TV broadcast or a direct OVA release.

That's more or less what an anime director said during an interview at a convention I went recently: he had worked on both the serie and the movie of Cowboy Bebop and was asked what were the differences regarding his work.

SuperKnuckles · 2008-05-03, 08:16

In a way I can agree with that assessment, but we ARE talking about Evangelion. I'm sure they'll have all the time in the world to remake the entire series if that was the choice. The budget obviously won't be much of an issue, neither would the DVD sales thereafter. Even the western anime market would be a huge boon to them too, as it always has been.

I do think the whole 20 minute format had the Anno going hither and dither in the normal series, especially near the end when it looked like things were sometimes needlessly stretched out at times or just aimless to end an episode at (such as the excessive and indulgent LARGE FONTS FOR NO REASON FOR ENTIRE MINUTES thing they did) . I still think a whole series being remade would've been better if for the epic scale of it instead of leaving only one new movie's edition, but I know it's a bit of wishful thinking. I would think higher of Anno to direct the new episodes a bit better with a second chance.

Yet, like you say, from all the little interviews and inquiries, it almost seems like Anno isn't as confident in himself as I might be of him.

JMvS · 2008-05-03, 08:38

Considering an artistical point of view, I still think that the opportunity to realize a serie of theatrical movie is something far superior to the remaking of a broadcasted serie.

-theatrical release itself carries I think more prestige, and generates revenues along with advertisment.
-movie format doesn't suffer from the restriction of broadcast serie: colors, format, "angel of the week", etc..
-movie can avoid overstretched arcs and fillers needed to fill 26 episodes.
-a movie ensure a continuous quality, as due to how broadcasted series are made, even well funded ones can suffer a few low quality scenes due to outsourcing + deadlines.

SuperKnuckles · 2008-05-03, 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMvS

Considering an artistical point of view, I still think that the opportunity to realize a serie of theatrical movie is something far superior to the remaking of a broadcasted serie.

-theatrical release itself carries I think more prestige, and generates revenues along with advertisment.
-movie format doesn't suffer from the restriction of broadcast serie: colors, format, "angel of the week", etc..
-movie can avoid overstretched arcs and fillers needed to fill 26 episodes.
-a movie ensure a continuous quality, as due to how broadcasted series are made, even well funded ones can suffer a few low quality scenes due to outsourcing + deadlines.

For one, I'm sure the revenues for DVD series would be ridiculously high since they charge so much for each and Eva DVDs almost always top the lists in Japan (not to forget, in the US too).

As for the color restriction, I agree with that. But I did think the movie felt a bit too dark for realism's (typical movie style) sakes. I didn't think that was necessary to the point some scenes were literally pitch black. I can understand the creative decision, but I can't agree to it personally. There is a reason why the broadcast color 'restrictions' are there.

As for the quality, I'm sure Gainax can put up with the typical '2 cour and a half' type of length like some anime does by going 33-34 eps depending on the new material. Also, Gainax doesn't exactly strike me as a company that really suffers from deadlines at all. That and I don' t consider outsourcing a credible reason to blame for bad animation as long as there's enough oversight, which Gainax is actually pretty popular for.

d-one · 2008-05-03, 09:34

well, this evangelion mostly created by Anno's own studio, Studio Khara. And they still look for more animators if I don't mistake.

ichobi · 2008-05-03, 09:37

I think in a way of making a movie, if will leave us another kind of impact ( as you said you got one ). I'm sure they can do a series, but this is probably just another way of storytelling. And since it's not clear wether it's a sequel, prequel, retold.. whatever, making a certain series would surely limit many creativity that can be put on + time restriction of course. In other word, they can't refine movie as they wish. I don't know how to say it, if you know what i mean. And movie in sequence make a better business I assume since we all know that there will be massive lines of queue waiting for limited DVD, it would sold out real quick. And that's good money and it happen.

Those money fund the next movies.
Waiting produces expectation, very high one at that because it's EVA.

Just my take.

Funny people mentioned speculation in EVA and graduate thesis. I choked, you certainly can have a PHD in Eva with the depth it provided. I recall those time when google was still somewhere inside Yahoo search page and people build site in HTML and table, I was RESEARCHING Eva, in every aspect I can. This is one thing that make EVA so legendary. it triggers.

After all, this is the series that provoked me to get a degree in Anime Study in Japan (I'm still regret I couldn't do that.)

2008-05-02, 04:06	Link #665
Renegade334 Sleepy Lurker Graphic Designer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nun'yabiznehz Age: 38	Yoshiyuki Sadamoto was even more radical in the manga, though, as he weeded out several 'minor' Angels such as Matariel, Sandalphon and Ireul as they probably didn't provide much development to his own vision of Eva. Considering what Gendo said during Operation Yashima, I think GAINAX is going to follow the same path. If we gather all (new and old) Angels in a list, we'll have: Spoiler: #1 - Pseudo-Lilith. #2 - Pseudo-Adam. #3 - Unknown. #4 - Sachiel. #5 - Shamshel #6 - Ramiel ---> At this point, Gendo states that 'We must use any means to destroy the last 8 Angels' Which means that Angel #14 should be the last one, Humanity set aside? The rest: #7 - Gaghiel #8 - Israfel #9 - Sandalphon (expendable) #10 - Matariel (expendable) #11 - Sahaquiel #12 - Ireul (expendable) #13 - Leliel (expendable) #14 - Bardiel #15 - Zeruel #16 - Arael #17 - Armisael #18 - Tabris I wrote some of them off, although they did have a part to play: - Sandalphon: a little deredere moment for Asuka. - Matariel: nothing much except show that Kaji is spying on NERV and the Eva pilots now act as a complete team. - Ireul: introduces the innards and concept of the three-noded MAGI System. - Leliel: shows some Shinji backbone plus some berserk Eva. Now, I'm not sure about Leliel as the preview for 2.0 shows Misato slapping Ritsuko, which takes place during the Leliel episode (although IIRC it was in the middle of the night, whereas the new footage shows it in broad daylight). If Leliel's back on the list, then another Angel must go out. In this case I'd write off Sahaquiel, whose role is more less as important to the plot as the others (although it'd have been nice to show Gendo congratulating his son for the first time). __________________ << -- Click to enter my (dead) GFX thread. Last edited by Renegade334; 2008-05-02 at 04:27.

2008-05-02, 07:43	Link #666
orion Waiting for more taiyuki! Join Date: Jan 2004	But... Spoiler for Angels list: What about Lilim? If you don't knock off humanity then what's the point? __________________

2008-05-02, 07:49	Link #667
Renegade334 Sleepy Lurker Graphic Designer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nun'yabiznehz Age: 38	I doubt Gendo bothered to include it in his 'still-eight-more-to-go' count. If anything, he knows he can't win against humanity, whereas the other Angels can still be beaten by an Eva. Besides, I also don't think he'd refer to his peers as 'Angels', so I deliberately left it out of the above list. __________________ << -- Click to enter my (dead) GFX thread.

2008-05-02, 12:53	Link #669
Iriliane Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada	Spoiler for Angel list and Major spoilers for the original series.: To be honest, when it comes to Gahiel and Israfael we only need one. Since both of them exist to show Shinji and Asuka working together Gaghiel can easily be dropped without much trouble. Tabris seems to have been moved up to Angel #7 and we can't forget that Rei is an Angel too. Also, it isn't entirely impossible that we won't see new angels in 2.0 to replace some of the old ones. If Anno wants to move the plot in a new direction then switching out Arael and Armisael would be a good way to do it. Since one mindrapes Asuka and the other kills Rei II.

2008-05-02, 16:33	Link #671
JMvS Rawrrr! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: CH aka Chocaholic Heaven Age: 40	Spoiler for about angels: isn't Rei to some extent a part of Lilith? (It's been a long time since I watched the serie and EoE)

2008-05-01, 22:17	Link #662
cors8 Kuu-chan is hungry Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC	I recall the mask of the original Lilith to be quite different from the mask of the current one hanging in Terminal Dogma. The one on the moon reminds me of the original though.

2008-05-02, 08:06	Link #668
JMvS Rawrrr! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: CH aka Chocaholic Heaven Age: 40	I did notice the "8 remaining angels" mentionned by Gendo when the sixth showed up, but I tought it may be inclusive, making a total of 13 angels, or "apostles", which seems to me a much more "intersting" number, regarding the judeo-christian inspiration of the show. So would 13 Shito instead of 14 be likely?

2008-05-02, 23:45	Link #673
ZODDGUTS Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005	Just finished watching the movie really enjoyed it though it lacked any big impact for me, most likely because I already seen the TV series so I already knew what was going to happen in the movie except some of the changes they made especially the awesome ending with a certain character.

2008-05-03, 04:16	Link #674
SuperKnuckles Anime Hobbyist Join Date: Dec 2004	I'm surprised that after watching it whole, it still leaves an impression on me. But then again, Evangelion was (and still is) a pretty unique beast with the wild abandon of emotions it trudges out (in good and bad ways). The visuals, as expected (I still begrudge the lack of TRUE High Def. DVDs? Those almost feel quaint to me) is quite amazing and the new technologies allowed the director to go even crazier with the show of force and armaments. It certainly is better than watching the cel-shaded eyesore they were at times. But in a way, I wonder: Why didn't they just remake the actual anime series then put on the new endings if they wanted?

2008-05-03, 08:16	Link #676
SuperKnuckles Anime Hobbyist Join Date: Dec 2004	In a way I can agree with that assessment, but we ARE talking about Evangelion. I'm sure they'll have all the time in the world to remake the entire series if that was the choice. The budget obviously won't be much of an issue, neither would the DVD sales thereafter. Even the western anime market would be a huge boon to them too, as it always has been. I do think the whole 20 minute format had the Anno going hither and dither in the normal series, especially near the end when it looked like things were sometimes needlessly stretched out at times or just aimless to end an episode at (such as the excessive and indulgent LARGE FONTS FOR NO REASON FOR ENTIRE MINUTES thing they did) . I still think a whole series being remade would've been better if for the epic scale of it instead of leaving only one new movie's edition, but I know it's a bit of wishful thinking. I would think higher of Anno to direct the new episodes a bit better with a second chance. Yet, like you say, from all the little interviews and inquiries, it almost seems like Anno isn't as confident in himself as I might be of him.

2008-05-03, 08:38	Link #677
JMvS Rawrrr! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: CH aka Chocaholic Heaven Age: 40	Considering an artistical point of view, I still think that the opportunity to realize a serie of theatrical movie is something far superior to the remaking of a broadcasted serie. -theatrical release itself carries I think more prestige, and generates revenues along with advertisment. -movie format doesn't suffer from the restriction of broadcast serie: colors, format, "angel of the week", etc.. -movie can avoid overstretched arcs and fillers needed to fill 26 episodes. -a movie ensure a continuous quality, as due to how broadcasted series are made, even well funded ones can suffer a few low quality scenes due to outsourcing + deadlines.

2008-05-03, 09:34	Link #679
d-one Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007	well, this evangelion mostly created by Anno's own studio, Studio Khara. And they still look for more animators if I don't mistake.

2008-05-03, 09:37	Link #680
ichobi Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	I think in a way of making a movie, if will leave us another kind of impact ( as you said you got one ). I'm sure they can do a series, but this is probably just another way of storytelling. And since it's not clear wether it's a sequel, prequel, retold.. whatever, making a certain series would surely limit many creativity that can be put on + time restriction of course. In other word, they can't refine movie as they wish. I don't know how to say it, if you know what i mean. And movie in sequence make a better business I assume since we all know that there will be massive lines of queue waiting for limited DVD, it would sold out real quick. And that's good money and it happen. Those money fund the next movies. Waiting produces expectation, very high one at that because it's EVA. Just my take. Funny people mentioned speculation in EVA and graduate thesis. I choked, you certainly can have a PHD in Eva with the depth it provided. I recall those time when google was still somewhere inside Yahoo search page and people build site in HTML and table, I was RESEARCHING Eva, in every aspect I can. This is one thing that make EVA so legendary. it triggers. After all, this is the series that provoked me to get a degree in Anime Study in Japan (I'm still regret I couldn't do that.)