Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha The MOVIE 1st

[00-Raiser]

Makes more sense this way, since Raising Heart is a machine and thus would have pre set modes already. Imagining her own modes would work for a more traditional magic girl show but Nanoha leans more to the tech side of things. Raising Heart as a device is meant to be a long range weapon, so of course it has default settings to that effect.

And we know Yuuno couldn't use it probably because he isn't suited for such settings, and he had difficulty adapting to Earth's mana. Nanoha, as an Earth native, wouldn't have that issue. She did better than him initially in part because of her natural magic capacity, and also due to Raising Heart's 'auto pilot' that handled a lot of the work for her.

I've told you this before, Nanya, but you have no right to say the movie was horrible until you actually sit through the whole thing.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

I don't get it. Even if they let Yuuno do this, Nanoha would still be the *ahem* "LESS Intelligent and LESS Imaginative than she really is", wouldn't she?

Yes, but at least they would have been established as existing.

If it's going to be pre-loaded already, at least SHOW it existing BEFORE!

Nostalgia Critic: Explain, movie, EXPLAIN!

[00-Raiser]

There's nothing that needs explaining. Raising Heart is a weapon built with two modes. What's so hard to grasp about that? That the second mode is preloaded doesn't need explaining.

[Tiresias]

Well actually both of them will end up as plot holes anyway.
-If RH was at a blank slate, free to be configured by its user, then the question will be "why the heck didn't Yuuno set it to be more suitable for his style?"
-If RH already has all the modes prepared, then the question will be "why the heck didn't Yuuno bring something more suitable for his style?"

In the end, it's just the writers attempt to retcon the whole thing by making it more consistent with later seasons, which showed us that weapons modding requires technical expertise and not just something that can be done just by 'imagining' them . A bit clumsy I admit, but at least now they're trying to be consistent

[Nanya01]

Okay, lemme break it down.

1: Yuuno says he has difficulty adapting to Earth's mana?

BULL! I call BULL on this!

Magic is MAGIC!

If that was the case then the Wolkenritter, in A's, couldn't get magic pages from the beasts.

Yet, they did.

So, that sounds like a BS reason why Yuuno's not very good.

Besides, if THAT was the case, then why didn't Fate or Arf have ANY trouble with the magic on Earth?

2: The stuff's preloaded, so all that would be needed was to just activate it to get the modes and spells right?

Then, why didn't Yuuno do it? Unless he couldn't activate it.

Which doesn't seem LIKELY since, you know, HE TOLD NANOHA HOW TO ACTIVATE IT!

So, there's TWO, TWO BIG GLARING CANON-DEFYING PLOT HOLES RIGHT THERE!!

And that's in the first few minutes!

[klare]

Originally Posted by Demi.

You see her in Fate's dream sequence in A's, in case you forgot.

i must have totally forgotten about that part in A's...

Originally Posted by Nanya01

I FINALLY figured it out!

WHY the movie was both horrible and annoying.

It's Raising Heart itself!...

the movie is like a fast-forward version of the series, it cannot explain everything in detail

i feel Nanoha is quite intelligent in the movie as she is shown to be able to solve a few things with her own ideas, considering she is from Earth (suppose to be not so advance)

[Akiyoshi]

I think they do this for two reasons:

- because of time sonstraints and...
- to nod at the more "mecha-aspects" of the series

During S1 and A's we were fooled into thinking Nanoha and Co. were all powerfull mages/knights destined to fight for the world's sake, came StrikerS and we found that they're tons of people like them and they aren't those destined warriors but instead a task force regulated by an institution focused on resolving "incidents" and we are also explained about the limits of magic the function of the devices and the dangers of trying to do the awesome things we watched in S1 and A's xDU(which is a quite jarring excuse to don't let the characters be so hot blooded again in order to allow the newcomers a chance to shine xDU). The MOVIE 1st give a more complete glimpse at what realy is behind Mid-Childas Magitech so it's natural that Rasising Heart came up less mystical and more techy in the movie(kudos to Nanoha for still being able to pull off her awesome hot blood stuff with her equally awesome high energy attitude xD).

MOVIE 1st have it's little details but i still find it very entertaining and the characters end up well played, hope MOVIE 2nd have the same quality.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by klare

i feel Nanoha is quite intelligent in the movie as she is shown to be able to solve a few things with her own ideas, considering she is from Earth (suppose to be not so advance)

Actually, some of us interpreted several scenes otherwise, but hey, they're just personal opinions...

Originally Posted by motaku96

Raising Heart thinks nanoha is an idiot. Earlier in the movie, RH tells Nanoha that they need more than strength and speed to win a fight, they need tactics. But when Nanoha is fighting Fate, Nanoha says they're using all the wisdom and tactics that they have, "all we have to do is hit her with all we've got, right?" RH hesitates....."All right, Master." I lol'd.

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Yes, I got that vibe too. Reminded me of EDI, even.

[Kaijo]

The problem is that we are going at the movie from the perspective of people who know the series inside and out. This is fine for movies that are made off of series, like say a One Piece movie or a Detective Conan movie. Those movies are made assuming the audience already has prior knowledge.

But the Movie 1st was billed as an AU, a redoing of how everything began, thus it needs to stand on its own. When a movie like this leaves out critical info, then it shoehorns itself into a difficult spot; it's not exactly for new people, because it assumes the audience knows the series well. And for the series regulars, it needs to offer something new (which it kinda does with fight scenes and fate backstory).

As far as the "Nanoha being less imaginative" thing goes, Nanya's point makes sense. In the series, it was Nanoha's imagination that came up with the initial staff and barrier jacket, and later the buster mode. Here, it seems like those modes are built in, so yes, Nanoha wasn't using her imagination as much (same for spells, which Nanoha of the series came up with mostly on her own).

And if so, why wasn't Yuuno using RH in staff mode? Given that Nanoha sealed the jewel seeds in staff mode much more easily than Yuuno did in the small jewel mode, it begs the question of why he didn't. True, maybe he wasn't compatible with it as much, maybe he couldn't use it that way, maybe Earth's magic field wasn't quite suited to him, etc. But these are all things that should be explained, otherwise they leave the newer viewers scratching their head and going "Huh?"

These are all valid criticisms of the movie; we need to step back out of our experience and approach the movie from the perspective of someone new to it.

Personally, I thought it would have been better to see Yuuno using the staff at first (possibly looking a bit different), and then having a short conversation between Nanoha and Yuuno later, with him admitting that he wasn't that compatible with RH, but it was a device he found in a dig and thus the only one available to him at the time. He couldn't wait to get another, because he needed to go after the seeds.

It's just part of the overall issue with this movie that it doesn't cover things it needs to, and does cover things it doesn't need to. Fate's backstory, while nice, isn't needed. The series did fine explaining Fate. But I think we all know why we did get lots of Fate backstory.

[MeoTwister5]

I still think that the movie was made almost purposely to be pretty much Fate's movie rather than Nanoha's, considering how it focused to much more on her as opposed to Nanoha. Sure Nanoha is the main character but much of the characterization the whole movie and screentime at the latter half went to Fate, so in the end if felt like the same story, only focusing on someone else.

In that way I almost expect the A's movie to be primarily on the Wolkenritter and Hayate.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

I still think that the movie was made almost purposely to be pretty much Fate's movie rather than Nanoha's, considering how it focused to much more on her as opposed to Nanoha. Sure Nanoha is the main character but much of the characterization the whole movie and screentime at the latter half went to Fate, so in the end if felt like the same story, only focusing on someone else.

You hit the nail on the head. It was deliberate pandering to Fate fans, at the expense of Nanoha, Arisa, Suzuka, and everyone else. Including needed explanations. It could have been a good way to introduce people to the series, as an alternate to S1, but it failed in that regard. I've said time and time again that Fate's backstory should have been released as a set of OAV's instead. That would have made sense. Possibly from the perspective of 19 year old Fate looking back, perhaps telling this story to a child she was in the midst of saving, or had saved. That would have been interesting.

But hey, they made money, and I suppose that's all that matters.

In that way I almost expect the A's movie to be primarily on the Wolkenritter and Hayate.

Possibly, but it's going to be real hard. If they take the same track they did with this one, then a lot of necessary stuff is going to be cut, leaving newer viewers once again going, "huh?"

People are going to continually leave your fandom, so you need a way to draw new people in. These movies could have been that, but I'm betting the second movie doesn't do as well (people turned off the first one, and the Fate fans won't be as into it due to less Fate time), and we won't get anymore movies.

Then again, the 2nd movie could still focus more on Fate, possibly somehow bumping Suzuka off and instead have Fate befriend Hayate. Tune in for Magical Girl Lyrical Fate the Movie 2nd A's, to see how it all turns out!

[Akiyoshi]

I don't have any problems with Fate ahving an expanded backstory, also as Raiser points out this expanded material also counts as Precia's backstory as well giving much more deep to her character beyond "that horrible woman who whips Fate-chan" that were her main character trait up until the Movie came out. Fate's screentime was so big that even i was able to notice it but i didn't have complains because Nanoha was still able to show her GARness and main character traits despite RH's new "mecha" features and reduces screentime. Also, visually the movie is fantastic.

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

In that way I almost expect the A's movie to be primarily on the Wolkenritter and Hayate.

I'll support that xD!

*suddenly it turns out we get the expanded backstory of Gil Grahan adn the Lieze Twins instead o_o*

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

I don't have any problems with Fate ahving an expanded backstory, also as Raiser points out this expanded material also counts as Precia's backstory as well giving much more deep to her character beyond "that horrible woman who whips Fate-chan" that were her main character trait up until the Movie came out. Fate's screentime was so big that even i was able to notice it but i didn't have complains because Nanoha was still able to show her GARness and main character traits despite RH's new "mecha" features and reduces screentime. Also, visually the movie is fantastic.

Like I said, you're coming at it from the perspective of someone who already understands things, so you don't see what's missing: mainly, what turned Nanoha into the person she was. I've had a few people go, "Wait, Nanoha is way too mature and accepting of everything. Is she for real?" It's not until they watch the first season that they understand what made her that way.

As for Precia, there's a difference between Fate backstory and Precia backstory. And also, all we needed was a bit extra to explain Precia. Perhaps right after she expels the Enforcers and disowns Fate, she can explain a bit with flashbacks about how the Hydra project she was on was sped up without her consent or advice and it killed Alicia. And about how Alicia was the center of her world.

Doesn't need to be much. As I said, Fate herself was explained and developed well enough in the series. I don't begrudge Precia getting a bit extra backstory development, but the overwhelming nature of what we did get meant the cutting of stuff that was more vital to make the movie whole.

No Arisa, Suzuka, or Takamachi family... you know, the things that made Nanoha who she is, and why she was willing to continually reach out to Fate in the first place. And no added Yuuno or RH explanations, which would have been nice and filled in some holes.

None of this stuff needed to be much, but it needed to be there.

[MeoTwister5]

Compared to 1st, A's movie has more to lose and less to gain considering most (including me) consider it the best of the three series (and at times I refuse to acknowledge that the last half of StrikerS exists), so it may be that they should take less liberties with A's than they did with 1st.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

*suddenly it turns out we get the expanded backstory of Gil Grahan adn the Lieze Twins instead o_o*

Hey if they make the backstory like this then I might be interested...not too time consuming of course...I felt that the incident that cost the life of Harlouwn Sr and an entire ship full of crew was not given enough attention. Ironic, considering it's what triggered all the fiasco on earth later...

[Akiyoshi]

I agree with most of your points Kaijo, the MOVIE as a stand alone film lacks much vital info and material about the main story and leaves some characters in the shadow(like Nanoha's family which even remain UNNAMED during the film xDU) but to be fair, most part of the character have their main character traits well exposed despite the small screentime(Arisa and Suzuka get enough scenes to catch her personalities from what i'm able to see, they even let the "Arisa's preocupation" sub-plot get into the movie).

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Then again, the 2nd movie could still focus more on Fate, possibly somehow bumping Suzuka off and instead have Fate befriend Hayate. Tune in for Magical Girl Lyrical Fate the Movie 2nd A's, to see how it all turns out!

Fate has her backstory waaaaaay well explained in MOVIE 1st so didn't think it was the case, but that didn't save the MOVIE form a posible similar destiny because the Wolkenritter have ...VITA! xD(you know, the character who gets nearly all the focus everytime Wolkenritter-related matierial sees the daylight). I like her, very much but i hope the movie gives a more shared focus between the four knights and Hayate.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Then again, the 2nd movie could still focus more on Fate, possibly somehow bumping Suzuka off and instead have Fate befriend Hayate. Tune in for Magical Girl Lyrical Fate the Movie 2nd A's, to see how it all turns out!

Fate is a tragic character with a sad childhood story so I can accept if the drama revolves around her...but asskickingbefriending? Hah!

Besides, my main draw for this series was not the sad blond girl but the promise of super beams and explosions, and no amount of sword-chucks can compensate for that...

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

but that didn't save the MOVIE form a posible similar destiny because the Wolkenritter have ...VITA! xD(you know, the character who gets nearly all the focus everytime Wolkenritter-related matierial sees the daylight). I like her, very much but i hope the movie gives a more shared focus between the four knights and Hayate.

This reminds me of the 4koma doujin, where Nanoha sees Shamal and Zaffy and asked "who are you guys again?"

[Nanya01]

To be fair on that one...

Zafira and Shamal NEVER gave their names to Nanoha and Fate by that point.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

*suddenly it turns out we get the expanded backstory of Gil Grahan adn the Lieze Twins instead o_o*

I would actually watch that movie, in all honesty.

[Kaijo]

It would be good OAV material (like Fate's backstory would have been), post A's, where Hayate goes to visit him on Earth and asks him him for the full story. In order to explain, he goes into a flashback starting from when he rescued that Enforcer, learned magic, created the Lieze twins, and how they formed his viewpoint later on. The desire to protect the world from sadness, and finally losing Clyde and seeing Lindy cry at the funeral, finally made up his mind to end the book once and for all.