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Old 2012-12-11, 04:10   Link #11401
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
People said that about the last two arcs as well.
Well clearly they weren't paying any attention because there were tons of things left unresolved, most notably Shiranui (both Hansode and Hanten) and Medaka's "other father" and Kamome who still hasn't really done anything (but might soon?). Which are both being addressed right now. The only thing left now is eyepatch girl's secret but I think she became a complete joke so maybe that's not relevant.
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Old 2012-12-11, 04:23   Link #11402
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Well clearly they weren't paying any attention because there were tons of things left unresolved, most notably Shiranui (both Hansode and Hanten) and Medaka's "other father" and Kamome who still hasn't really done anything (but might soon?). Which are both being addressed right now. The only thing left now is eyepatch girl's secret but I think she became a complete joke so maybe that's not relevant.
Medaka's other "mothers" and possibly new siblings could make for pretty awesome plot arcs.

What about Zen's father? I wonder who the lolicon bastard is.

Most things Kumagawa related are likely gonna be handled in LNs.
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Old 2012-12-11, 04:47   Link #11403
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Haha. I agree that a lot of the plot's final threads are wrapping up, but one Kumagawa issue I do expect to see addressed in the manga is his promise to beat Medaka before his graduation. Given that Medaka has also promised to become the head of the Kurokami group, it could likely be that this (in-manga) year will be Medaka's last year as well. In such a case, I think at least one more arc could be possible, focusing on the end of Hakoniwa's school year.
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Old 2012-12-11, 05:52   Link #11404
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I think zenkichis father can exactly like kumagawa since his mother is like shiranui , i wonder if his mother was double of medakas mother .
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Old 2012-12-11, 05:57   Link #11405
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Originally Posted by kenjtr View Post
I think zenkichis father can exactly like kumagawa since his mother is like shiranui , i wonder if his mother was double of medakas mother .
OMG 2 characters are loli types...THEY MUST BE RELATED!!! >_>
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Old 2012-12-11, 06:17   Link #11406
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Well, Shiranui x Zenikichi is a popular pairing for a reason.
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Old 2012-12-11, 06:42   Link #11407
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Shipping Kumagawa and Medaka is like shipping Goku and Piccolo.
Still better than Zenkichi X Medaka ship. Emukae is the best girl for Zenkichi and guess what? He decided to sink that ship, and jump to other, unstable ships.
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Old 2012-12-11, 07:03   Link #11408
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I find this thread very amusing.
That would no be so weird before Jet Black Bride arc.
But in this Arc closed question Medaka x Zen.

Good that Zen can not read this.
He was amazed to read that he has to choose another girl.
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Old 2012-12-11, 08:18   Link #11409
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Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
Well, Shiranui x Zenikichi is a popular pairing for a reason.
Actually, KumagawaXZenkichi is way more popular in the grand scheme of things, to us it just seems like it isn't.
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Old 2012-12-11, 08:54   Link #11410
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Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
A bit skeptical of the Kumagawa X Medaka shipping...guess I just prefer them as one of the many forms of shadow archetypes in the series, rather than the pivotal relationship of the series. But to each their own...

Personally, I agree, in that Kumagawa and Medaka representing the two extremes, but I don't know if Kumagawa represents human nature to Medaka's excelling monster. There are definitely those in life who have suffered greatly, and there are those who have excelled beyond belief. In these aspects turned up to eleven. Zenkichi and some of the other normal characters represent a balance, and the malleability of human nature. No, most of us might not excel in the way we want, but neither should we label ourselves losers of society before we've even begun. Or when we finish. But again, there's gray areas to the positions characters have been placed in as well as an active resistance to their categorization.

Perhaps the characters we hate the most are also because they're so human to us. It's definitely a wide net. Or they'll all human in some aspects, and the scale is just waiting to shift.


That's well said.

Honestly, people who say Kumagawa is the most human character are completely misunderstanding. He's one of the most in-human characters in the series. He's a complete exaggeration of the loser archetype. He takes it far and beyond anyone I've ever seen.

So much so that he still loses when he has an ability that trespasses into God's territory. And wants to conquer the unconquerable. That by no way means he's anywhere near bad, but he's not everything.

It's kinda annoying when people miss that stuff, the character who best represents human nature in this manga is Zenkichi - not Kumagawa and much less his polar exaggeration: Medaka. The want to live your own life, the want to be free from what one considers fate, the want to have power, the want for your girl liking you due to your own merits, your best friend lying to you, and many others are the human issues being talked about in Medaka Box, and they do so through Zenkichi's story. The whole point of the True Flask Plan was to create a perfect human was it not? Well, what if that "human" isn't a "monster" like Medaka or Iihiko, but what if the whole point of the arc was to create a human who could understand human's hearts to the entiriety? The "perfect" human - unimpeded by fate and overcoming his doubts. That's what a Zero is, the way I see it. "The perfect human". Certainly seems to be a trait Zenkichi possesed at the election.

And this brings up why I hate Zenkich x Medaka's romance. He's obssesed with her beyond any and all speculation - even death! What kind of normal guy, at 16 years old, loves a girl in that fashion? It's a complete contradiction to his character.

But whatevs, just a crazy opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noobita
Emukae is the best girl for Zenkichi
True enough.

Which makes me so sad that Nishio dropped it so uncerimoniously.

The only other good option would've been Shiranui, but Nishio'll never have Zenkichi dating a loli.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosu
Actually, KumagawaXZenkichi is way more popular in the grand scheme of things, to us it just seems like it isn't
Even truthfuller!
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Old 2012-12-11, 09:12   Link #11411
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I also find zenkichis love to medaka unnatural since it totally conflicts with his character , no human would like someone like medaka but zenkichi loves her so much he wants to be a girl to understand her more . Actually these words of zenkichi made me loose intrest in him while i really liked him in the past , i hope one day we can learn why zenkichi loves medaka that much .
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Old 2012-12-11, 10:04   Link #11412
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kenjtr makes a point about that. How does Zen love Medaka so much? It's almost like they aren't his and seems artificial
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Old 2012-12-11, 12:36   Link #11413
Ilidsor
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Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post


It's kinda annoying when people miss that stuff, the character who best represents human nature in this manga is Zenkichi - not Kumagawa and much less his polar exaggeration: Medaka. The want to live your own life, the want to be free from what one considers fate, the want to have power, the want for your girl liking you due to your own merits, your best friend lying to you, and many others are the human issues being talked about in Medaka Box, and they do so through Zenkichi's story. The whole point of the True Flask Plan was to create a perfect human was it not? Well, what if that "human" isn't a "monster" like Medaka or Iihiko, but what if the whole point of the arc was to create a human who could understand human's hearts to the entiriety? The "perfect" human - unimpeded by fate and overcoming his doubts. That's what a Zero is, the way I see it. "The perfect human". Certainly seems to be a trait Zenkichi possesed at the election.

And this brings up why I hate Zenkich x Medaka's romance. He's obssesed with her beyond any and all speculation - even death! What kind of normal guy, at 16 years old, loves a girl in that fashion? It's a complete contradiction to his character.

But whatevs, just a crazy opinion.
I think he loves her simply because they've been through so much together. What's more human than falling in love with somebody after sharing years of experiences? Even if that person isn't suited for you at first glance.

And I don't think Zen is supposed to represent the normal human, I think he's supposed to represent the effect an abnormal being like Medaka would have on a normal human after a long period of time. He's never been entirely normal, no regular person would study for years to learn to disarm any kind of weapon while they are a student. But that's the effect that being around Medaka for so long has had on him, he sees things differently than normal people even if he was born completely normal. Humans adapt, that's how we've survived for so long. Zen has done the same thing by adapting to Medaka

His relationship with Medaka is an off-shoot of that, he's been exposed to Medaka's unconditional love for everybody (well that she had at the start of the story anyways) for so long that to him following Medaka around and doing so much for her just seems completely normal.

That's what I think anyways.

By the way I don't think I've ever posted here before so nice to meet you all.
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Old 2012-12-11, 13:00   Link #11414
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Credit to Zeromcd of MangaHelpers

Jump Issue #3 early info
- Medaka Box is in last place
- Retsu!! Date-senpai is 9th from the bottom
If the system is -7, it would be chapter 168 where Zenkichi and Kumogawa is revived. I believed one of the best moments in that chapter had Ajimu blasting away the Kumogawa's loser star in Kumogawa's mind. Can't believe that chapter of all chapter finished last.I even thought this would have escaped Bottom 5.
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Old 2012-12-11, 13:26   Link #11415
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Never really understood how its been bottom 5 for most of its lifetime, maybe it has something to do with what they said in bakuman that kids will not read or vote for series with heavy amount of dialogue...maybe...nobody knows
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Old 2012-12-11, 13:42   Link #11416
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Originally Posted by Ilidsor View Post
I think he loves her simply because they've been through so much together. What's more human than falling in love with somebody after sharing years of experiences? Even if that person isn't suited for you at first glance.
Because that's not human at all. Not even one single bit. These everlasting love types are something you only see happening all the time in Shounen Manga, real life is much more complicated than that. And Zenkichi is supposed to represent us, and he does a good job, except when it comes to his romantic relationships.

Nishio's even teasing us with Doctor Tsurubami, who is basically a Zenkichi who does take his relationships in a human fashion. And left his "love" because she was exactly like Medaka.

Meanwhile, Medaka's relationships to Zenkichi made them both conjure up some of the most fantasical shit you'd ever see someone talking. Like "I'll always be by your side", or "I'll love you beyond death". That's some de-facto cliche manga bullshit love story stuff.

And Zen's supposed to be normal...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilidsor View Post
And I don't think Zen is supposed to represent the normal human


You sure about that?

Just because he's a normal guy who reacts to monsters, dosen't mean he's become one. Far from the truth. That's the entire reason for a Zero:

"Zenkichi is right in that regard. He's not a Plus or a Minus; but a Zero."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilidsor View Post
I think he's supposed to represent the effect an abnormal being like Medaka would have on a normal human after a long period of time. He's never been entirely normal, no regular person would study for years to learn to disarm any kind of weapon while they are a student. But that's the effect that being around Medaka for so long has had on him, he sees things differently than normal people even if he was born completely normal. Humans adapt, that's how we've survived for so long. Zen has done the same thing by adapting to Medaka
I really don't understand why you direct this paragraph at me when you're not contradicting me at all with it...

Yeah, all you said did make sense, but it dosen't mean that he suddenly stopped thinking like a normal human in everything simply because he thinks crazily about his relationship to Medaka. He never stopped being human. He's there to represent our reactions to all the Abnormal and Minus stuff, which showed greatly in the Flask Plan Arc, like you said, it's his thematic value, and one that shined when he gave his speech to the viewers at the election, when he created Devil Style and when he told Medaka to have some free-will of her own.

He dosen't see things differently than normal, Lol. He's just determined enough to act on his own unique viewpoints. Which aren't anywhere near abnormal ones.

But he is, admittedly, a loony when it comes to romantic relationships.

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Old 2012-12-11, 13:57   Link #11417
Clarste
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I don't think Zen's normal, at least not anymore. Even ignoring Medaka's influence and all that, the whole concept of "Zero" is hardly normal in the first place. While obviously no one in real life has either Medaka's abnormal luck or Kumagawa's negative fate, we also don't live our lives completely free of coincidence. Where we were born, who we meet, what happens to us outside our control... these are all very human things. Zen's desire to live a life completely free from outside influence, where everything he gets is exactly proportional to the effort he puts in... that's abnormal. That's an ideal just as far removed from reality as Medaka or Kumagawa. Plus, Minus, and Zero are all unrealistic extremes.

Honestly, I'd say Akune is the most "human" character, but he's not really important anymore. He's a guy with realistic talent who's heavily influenced by who he hangs out with. He thinks he knows what he wants, but what he wants changes over time. He has no tragic past that shaped him completely, he's just pulled along by life combined with his own actions.
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Old 2012-12-11, 14:13   Link #11418
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In essence, there'd be nothing more "human" than a Zero in Medaka Box. That's the whole point, that it's not a Plus, nor is it a Minus, it's something else. Someone who disperses the veil of the unreal manga world with somethign like Devil Style. An unsung hero of a main character that despises what the conventional main character stands for. Whole reason that Zenkichi gave-up on the privileges of being a main character was that he wouldn't become what he was trying to change. Recall the "he dosen't have anything" line? That's the point exactly! He dosen't have any special skills, talent or unworldly ability, he just has his unique mind-set and personality(which is why he's so weak)!

The desire to have a life constructed by your efforts rather than how it is in the world of Medaka Box(the whole manga stuff) is far from an abnormal desire. We all feel it. We all wonder about if we have any choices to make, if our fates aren't already pre-ordained, if we actually have free-will.

Think about it more carefully. Zenkichi basically took the fate-run universe of the manga and said that he wanted things to feel more real than fabricated in there. He didn't want to defeat Medaka due to luck or fate. How is that anything but the more human of emotions? To want your efforts to pay out?

Granted, the fact he did all that partly so his girl would notice(partly because he wanted to live his own life, which he has failed to do so far) him is beyond ridiculous, but we've already established that Zenkichi's relationship with Medaka is fantasical.

Also, you're confusing boring for normal. They aren't synonyms. And half of what you said happened to Zenkichi in a higher degree.

Re-read Zenkichi's actions during the election polling. Can you really say that anyone is more human than that in this manga? he doubts himself at the last second and is able to accurately read the hearts of his fellow students, knowing what they truly want. A result that would've been wrongly changed by fate if not for Devil Style. Thankfully, free-will shines out in the end!
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Old 2012-12-11, 14:21   Link #11419
[HearT]
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Originally Posted by Sarun View Post
If the system is -7, it would be chapter 168 where Zenkichi and Kumogawa is revived. I believed one of the best moments in that chapter had Ajimu blasting away the Kumogawa's loser star in Kumogawa's mind. Can't believe that chapter of all chapter finished last.I even thought this would have escaped Bottom 5.
I think it was actually the chapter where Medaka visits her father that was ranked this week..
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Old 2012-12-11, 14:23   Link #11420
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Also, there's no way that introspective dream chapter would've ended last...
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