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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 47 | |||
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... | 5 | 16.67% | |
9 out of 10: Excellent... | 5 | 16.67% | |
8 out of 10: Very Good... | 5 | 16.67% | |
7 out of 10: Good... | 8 | 26.67% | |
6 out of 10: Average... | 5 | 16.67% | |
5 out of 10: Below Average... | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10: Poor... | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10: Bad... | 1 | 3.33% | |
2 out of 10: Very Bad... | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10: Torturous... | 1 | 3.33% | |
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-09-11, 11:00 | Link #81 | |
Praise the sun!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 34
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Quote:
The Vagans shown in Gen 1/2 has been ruthless fanatics, not a single one of them has been shown to care about the people on earth as a whole, at all, they all hated the earthlings. In Gen 3 we've been shown Deen and ... well, Lu. Waah waah people have it horrible back on Mars, sure. thats horrible and all, but its Ezelcants fault and people who ruled earth soon to be 200 years ago. Vagans have, and is still portrayed in a bad way, Deen and Lu isnt going to change the entire view people have on the Vagan as a whole. As you said yourself: you can't really judge an entire population by the actions of one guy. (Or his red haired younger sister who was dying) Of course you cant, but you can judge an entire population by what the majority of its population has done sofar, and thats been ruthless killing of civilians and war crimes that tops Zeon outside of colony drops. |
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2012-09-11, 11:18 | Link #82 |
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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For most the series the Vagans just blow shit up because they can, at random. Need to draw out the Gundam? Blow up the suburbs instead of attacking the military base...Need to take over Olivernotes? blow up the city, NOT the military base...
They just do random, stupid shit that makes no sense unless you look at them as generic, evil beings incapable of human emotions or reason. We shouldn't have to assume that most of them are like Zeheart pre-derailment, or Deen, and not like Ezelcant, Zanald, Decil, Yark Dole, etc. Compare Cima's backstory to the BS that Yark Dole spills in ep 15 and you see the difference in quality between somethng that's well written, and something that's half-assed.
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2012-09-11, 11:23 | Link #83 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Russia
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To be fair, majority of vagans have done no such things. So far only Gerra Zoi' forces and Zeheart with his idiotic attack on Olivernotes can be considered war criminals, a that's only small portion of vagan forces. Other Vagan soldiers are just typical military forces and no better/worse than their federation counterparts.
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2012-09-11, 11:25 | Link #84 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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2012-09-11, 11:32 | Link #85 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Just to be sure I don't get ostracised or anything, I will acknowledge that Vegans have committed a few war crimes. I do feel it is unfair to judge all of Vegan by just this. It's not like I was saying all Earthers deserve to die because the government condemned all of them to death either. My point is that the Vegans were in pain, and now the Earthers are feeling similar pain, and are fighting for their lives, and of course shooting down the soldiers who are attacking you isn't exactly criminal, or even 'wrong'. However, to say they, (and by "they", i mean "all Vegans") are EVIL, is blowing things out of proportion. They have a reason for fighting: Some of them want revenge, others want to make sure they (or at least their families) survive. If you're saying it's ok to wipe out all of the Vegans for "what they did", you cannot say that the reverse isn't true.
In the end, everyone is a human being, who fight for what they believe in. And Kio really is no different. He fights to make all humans survive. Kind of like Ezelcant, but in a less messed up way. |
2012-09-11, 11:38 | Link #86 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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2012-09-11, 11:39 | Link #87 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Russia
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As I said, majority of Vagan soldiers have never done anything like this. But anyway, I'm pretty sure if you let squadron of federation pilots in the Second Moon it could very well result in the massacre similar to Olivernotes. They don't even have to be bad people, just angry and confident that they are justified in their actions
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2012-09-11, 11:50 | Link #88 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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The truly bad point is we don't get a or many recurring characters on the Vagan side exploring their pain of their usual life, their motivation. Instead, we always (or most of the time) have the same line : you banned us so, we are going to make you pay ! Sure, there is the couple of poor kids in Kyo's arch but come on, near the end of the show ? thus, we have two distinct side : the good ones and the bad ones without any shades of grays. |
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2012-09-11, 12:10 | Link #90 | |||
Praise the sun!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 34
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Quote:
the only Vagan that has been shown to NOT hate earthlings is Lu, and she died around 5 minutes later. We can speculate if the Vagans in the colonies hate Earthlings or not, but we've been given no proof that they don't, they support Ezelcant in his holy war to reclaim Earth and their Eden, at the same time, i don't bring them up because it's speculation if they support the war there or not. Quote:
As i mentioned above, the only Vagan who has been portrayed in a good manner is Lu, and to a extent Deen, Fram isnt a good nice character, she was driven by revenge and now she is driven by her death flag lust towards Zeheart's approval. Zeheart has always been loyal to the Vagan, not even his friendship with Asemu and Romary changed that. Oh, Maybe Ezelcant's housekeeper, she seemed like a happy character. List of good Vagans: Lu Deen Housekeeper Quote:
That's why i compared the two, it has nothing to do with who had the most sympathetic characters. |
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2012-09-11, 12:45 | Link #91 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Russia
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2012-09-11, 12:57 | Link #93 | ||
Praise the sun!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 34
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Of course, i know the Vagan population is unaware of Ezelcant's true project Eden, but that doesn't change the fact that they follow & support his massacre of civilians in the Earth Sphere. |
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2012-09-11, 13:04 | Link #94 | |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Ok, all of the Earthlings are outright bastards because they hate Vegans! How is the former statment any different form the latter? |
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2012-09-11, 13:09 | Link #95 | |
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2012-09-11, 13:09 | Link #96 | |
Praise the sun!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 34
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No, because they support the massacre of other civilians, if anything, the Vagans, with their history, should understand that Civilians take the blame for their superiors fuckups.
There is one thing to hate someone, but wiping his entire family off the grid is another. See the difference? Quote:
outside colony drops outside colony drops as in: not counting colony drops The point i was trying to make, was that the Vagan's is the only other group in the Gundamverse that has been close to kill as much civilians as Zeon did without colony drops without giving a shit. (Disregarding Gundam X, but that's complete overkill, and that would be comparing things way off) |
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2012-09-11, 13:13 | Link #97 | |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Age: 39
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2012-09-11, 13:39 | Link #99 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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The Vagans blew up two colonies, and the Feds managed to evacuate the entire population of one, so in terms of Earth sphere losses, the Vagans only killed 1 colony worth of civilians + the attacks on Flit's home colony and other random, small scale attacks here and there + Olivernotes. Zeon on the other hand attacked Sides 1, 2, 4 and 5, which contained clusters of colonies, the numbers aren't exact but they destroyed several colonies, and murdered billions of people not counting those that died on Earth once they dropped colonies. Then there are the subsequent insurrections and colony drops in the years following the OYW carried out by Zeon loyalists. The vagans are bad, but they don't even come close to the Zeon. You need to get your facts straight.
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2012-09-11, 13:40 | Link #100 | |
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Last edited by overloard; 2012-09-11 at 13:59. |
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weekly episode discussion |
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