Left 4 Dead

[SageGaiGar]

Originally Posted by -Sho-

You'll wait a long time like us who pre-ordered the game XD

It did finally work. Melee is fun *but* having no pistol is very bad. Magnum was nice.

I'll probably wait on this til it's on sale. Not really worth $45.

[Mueti]

Originally Posted by Aershelelou

I'm not too excited about Left 4 Dead 2. However, I did like the first one. I'm not a big fan of shooters, but I like how the gameplay is. The graphics, the missions, everything. It's just very different. Typical, mediocre things like Halo are boring to me c.c

I don't think the good FPSs vs bad FPSs percentage is a lot different from other genres. I also never understood how Halo got so big, I only played the first one and I don't think it's an exaggeration when I call it one of the worst shooters I've ever played.


The gore-system in L4D2 is great, seeing guts and limbs spray all over the place makes kills very satisfying. My only complaint after playing the demo is that the auto-shotgun still seems as overpowered as in the first game. Though the overall lesser abundance of ammunition does tone down the careless spraying a bit.

[Lonewolf]

Just played the demo of l4d2 i like it but its just more of the same. I don't know why this wasn't a patch or expansion. The melee weapons were by far the coolest part nothing like hacking limbs and heads off with a machete. Also the damage system is awesome I like that a lot. Probably wont buy when it first comes out I think I'll wait a few months for it to go down in price. All in All still fun just wish there was a little more to it. Can't spend $40-$50 bucks for just a few new modes,couple new weapons, and enemies. Ya the auto-shotgun is still as power full as ever and the limited ammo does add a little to the difficulty.All ways fun as hell though.

[-Sho-]

Ow , i forget to talking about the long awaited custom map : Dead before Dawn .

Well , i won't do a long speech about it . I'll be fast .
Dunno you , but me i was dissapointed .
Yeah , they did a great works for the details specially the trade center .
But , too many bugs , too many crashs and infected are stupids . They have low chance to take you .
The puzzle are so so .
Files size = 1.1 GO without versus maps and last map . Yeah , no last map .
I played the map , 5-6 times then get bored .
Well , 6+ months for that .....

Recently i played "Suicid Blitz" This map is way better than this . Its like an official map though . The train's part is great ! And the last with the arena

[MidnightViper88]

My brother downloaded the demo on his X-Box 360 with The Parish and I just got done playing through it...

And I fucking love it

For starters, the weapons add a bit more to the gameplay...As a firearm enthusiast, I couldn't help but notice they added in longer reload animations; The slide locks back on an empty P220 pistol and the bolt is cycled through on the G3 sniper rifle...That really makes reloading even more critical during downtimes and more of a nuisance during infected attacks...The addition of the new weapons also brings a different balance...The G3 is tighter on the accuracy when moving compared to the old Mini-14 hunting rifle and the 30-round mag is also a great bonus...Getting to play both the M1014 tactical shotgun and SPAS-12 combat shotgun in the same sitting, I couldn't tell much of a difference, though apparently the SPAS-12 has a greater effective range and tighter grouping...The silenced MAC-10 SMG is a different animal than the Uzi SMG; It doesn't attract the infected as easily but also has a reduced effective range...I need to play it again to see how the chrome shotgun and the SCAR-L combat rifle are like, since I didn't play the shotgun and I didn't come across the SCAR-L...I picked up a bile bomb, but didn't play it; I wish I had, since I picked it up right before coming up on a Tank battle...Melee weapons are also fun for the gore and one-kill wonder, but sacrifices the comfort of a distance kill...

And the infected...Well, the infected are still, as Bill once described them, "bastards"...This time, even more...I actually think the infected make the fight a bit more challenging...The common infected are a lot more aggressive, making a run for the survivors in a more responsive manner at first sight, though I'm not sure if that had to do with the daylight setting of The Parish...Either way, the uncommon infected, especially the riot infected with the ballistic armor, make things really annoying...Oh, the riot infected? Bulletproof front makes for persistence, and that gets annoying when they won't die so easily and you're already surrounded by the horde...Yeah, running and gunning isn't going to work with them...

But the special infected is what makes it all the more challenging...The director really instills paranoia by sending at least two special infected at the same time at any time, even on normal, something that was almost left up to advanced and expert...And the new special infected really changed my gameplay style...Whereas I could go Rambo-mode and play the first game like a Counter-Strike match with no fear of the old special infected, the new special infected make for more annoyance...The Jockey only becomes a problem if it latches onto you, because that's when it can steer you away from teammates or even steer you into other infected...The Spitter can be a bitch if you don't pay attention, since I almost killed myself in a pool of it's acid when I wasn't aware I was doing so until 2 seconds later when I was almost close to going into the red on health...And the Charger is scary fast; If you have some distance, it's not a problem, but up-close, it charges faster than any survivor can run leaving little reaction time, and it becomes a problem to kill since it has more health than both the Hunter and Smoker combined...All three either reinforces the idea of teamwork or forces the team to break up depending on what happens...Maybe once I get used to their actions they won't be such a problem, but it's always a problem when the infected have new methods for which to decimate the survivors...

The Wandering Witch actually doesn't see like much of a problem at all...It provides the opportunity to actually walk around her, since she can't just block an important path anymore, and walking past an already walking Witch isn't that bad since it takes more to piss her off than before...I still wouldn't like the possible surprises the Wandering Witch could make when it comes up on a blind spot...Since I was playing offline single player, the team was still stupid when it comes to reacting with a Witch...A Wandering Witch walked up right to the survivors, and they just stood there as it got quickly pissed and attacked Nick...Stupid survivors...

Speaking of survivors, it's not substantive at all, but I miss the old survivors...Bill was cool because he was an old Vietnam vet, Louis acted black, Zoey was hot, and Francis was an ass...I don't feel that same sort of connection with any of the new survivors, though maybe I also just need some growing on with this too...

But in other non-substantive stuff, the new looks for the old infected are more grotesque, especially the Smoker, ESPECIALLY the Smoker...Talk about disgusting, and cool...

Maps? New maps, but just as interesting with the maps, are the fact that the triggered crescendos force you move to actually stop the horde attack...Fun, as if the new infected aren't already challenging...Now I have to push through them just to get somewhere...

I can't wait to play the full game...

[Mueti]

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

Speaking of survivors, it's not substantive at all, but I miss the old survivors...Bill was cool because he was an old Vietnam vet, Louis acted black, Zoey was hot, and Francis was an ass...I don't feel that same sort of connection with any of the new survivors, though maybe I also just need some growing on with this too...

I'm pretty sure that'll come with time once we got the full game. Remember that the connection to the old characters happened almost purely through the bits of dialog heard throughout the whole game. Chances are it'll be no different this time around...and I already like Coach more than Francis.

[Claies]

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

The Wandering Witch actually doesn't see like much of a problem at all...It provides the opportunity to actually walk around her, since she can't just block an important path anymore, and walking past an already walking Witch isn't that bad since it takes more to piss her off than before...I still wouldn't like the possible surprises the Wandering Witch could make when it comes up on a blind spot...Since I was playing offline single player, the team was still stupid when it comes to reacting with a Witch...A Wandering Witch walked up right to the survivors, and they just stood there as it got quickly pissed and attacked Nick...Stupid survivors...

I encountered a wandering Witch standing on the ramp to the trailer for The Parish Part 2, right before the alarmed bus station evac zone. We stared at her for about half a minute and she didn't walk away or anything. I was playing with a bunch of random people who don't talk, so they just went ahead and aggro'd it. It was a tight area, so I guess there isn't really an alternative. Someone is also bound to accidentally shoot her when the alarm madness begins.

By the way, the alarm fight was actually pretty hard. If you can't get all four people to stick together it gets really hairy as soon as somebody gets stuck.

I really like what they've done, though apparently I have some hitbox problems. Still not paying $50, though. It'll take a sale for me to bite this one.

[Lonewolf]

ya the alarm fight was tough the first time i played it, I try to now have a scar or ak running thru there seems to do better then the shottys there. The infected usually line up either running after someone or at u and the scar/ak make easy work of them. Also the magnum helps too cuz in can shoot thru 3 or 4 infected. Ya the smoker looks even better now. Ya they defiantly stack the special infected now makes things harder. I like the day time setting tho, cuz if I was actually in that situation I would move during the day bunk down at night. The Spitter or what ever its called with the acid is way to powerful I think need to tone down the dmg the acid does to u. One of them spit at the ground in front of me was only it 2,3 secs top at about 90 health and it killed me another time about the same health got caught for in it maybe in for a sec or two and i was in the red.


Also when it comes out and it only has 4 missions like the first one im going to be pissed and definitely wait till it goes on sale/price cut.

[-Sho-]

Yeah me too , the old characters will miss me .
Yeah , the smoker is stronger now and i think too that the spitter's acid is too powerfull .
Yeah , if you don't want to pay 50$ , wait for the special week-end , like Left4dead 1 when the price was 15$

Ow , i forget to say for the people who pre-order the game , actually they can pre-download the game and directly play when its out !
Me , its november 17th 9:00 PM . Well , maybe , because everytime they change the hour .

[2H-Dragon]

Originally Posted by Mueti

I don't think the good FPSs vs bad FPSs percentage is a lot different from other genres. I also never understood how Halo got so big, I only played the first one and I don't think it's an exaggeration when I call it one of the worst shooters I've ever played.

It's pretty simple how it got so big. Think about the console shooter before it. It was the first since goldeneye, that made shooters good again on consoles. With halo 2/3 you have 4 player splitscreen online. How many other shooters did that in the time(not to mention the regenerating shield and the 2 weapon limit)?

Sure if you are someone that doesn't have any friends and someone who thinks shooters should only be played on pc's, then yeah it probably is the worst you ever played. For the most of us it's the most fun we had in ages. A pickup and play shooter I could play with my casual gamer friends.

On L4D2. I'm getting the same vibes as everyone else. On one side it is fun, but is it worth the $50? Well it depends on how many of people I play with are going to buy it, though that's my philosophy for almost all online shooters.

[Mueti]

Originally Posted by 2H-Dragon

It's pretty simple how it got so big. Think about the console shooter before it. It was the first since goldeneye, that made shooters good again on consoles. With halo 2/3 you have 4 player splitscreen online. How many other shooters did that in the time(not to mention the regenerating shield and the 2 weapon limit)?

Sure if you are someone that doesn't have any friends and someone who thinks shooters should only be played on pc's, then yeah it probably is the worst you ever played. For the most of us it's the most fun we had in ages. A pickup and play shooter I could play with my casual gamer friends.

Yeah, since I believe that Halo is a bad shooter I obviously got no friends, just as everybody else who would agree with me. Geez, get over yourself.

[Lonewolf]

Oh Ya I played some more of the demo, ive noticed the game itself scales pretty well to hardware or I at least feel it does more then the first one, but this could be optimizing in the engine. Seems to run smooth on my laptop even when I throw a pipe bomb and bodys and limbs go flying in the air.

The more I play the demo i enjoy it a little more. The demo has got my interest up. I'm waiting for steam to do a sale after its released just to pick it up a little cheaper no sense in paying full price right now.

I'm looking forward to the custom maps that are going to follow. Maybe even some remakes of the original maps.

[2H-Dragon]

Originally Posted by Mueti

Yeah, since I believe that Halo is a bad shooter I obviously got no friends, just as everybody else who would agree with me. Geez, get over yourself.

Ah I forgot to add "friends to play with". Didn't mean it that way tbh. I was trying to point out that halo shines when playing with people.

Just curious in what way is Halo bad? You can call it generic or average at best.

I just don't like people hating on a series just because it sold millions.

[Mueti]

Ah, ok; that one missing word did make a difference.

Spoiler for off-topic:

Loads of games (most that aren't specifically designed for the singleplayer experience, one could argue) are at their best when played with friends, since forever basically. It's not like Halo broke any ground there.
I only played Halo's singleplayer though, and yes it was generic. Not terrible really at first but it bored the fuck out of me after only a few hours. Vehicles felt like shit, story wasn't worth mentioning and it felt like the generic hallways, outskirts and enemies kept repeating themselves, without presenting any new incentive to go on. Not to mention that I totally didn't like how the weapons handled.
I don't dislike it because it's a hugely popular FPS (HL2 is one of my favorites of the genre), I just genuinely thought it was very bad.

But enough of this, this is the L4d thread after all.

[Claies]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Oh Ya I played some more of the demo, ive noticed the game itself scales pretty well to hardware or I at least feel it does more then the first one, but this could be optimizing in the engine. Seems to run smooth on my laptop even when I throw a pipe bomb and bodys and limbs go flying in the air.

It's still the Source engine, so of course it scales well.

[Lonewolf]

It's still the Source engine, so of course it scales well.

Oh I know its the Source engine, I use the same settings for l4d as l4d2 and I'm getting higher fps plus it doesn't seem to get so bogged down when a lot of infected are on screen as much as the first one does, for me anyways.

[MidnightViper88]

Every time I play the demo for The Parish, something different always happens...That's why I love Left 4 Dead; Even a fuckin' demo doesn't get boring...

Case in point, every play-through has a first; My first death, at that, and a first-hand experience of how deadly the new special infected can be (And that doesn't include what happens when they gang-rape you 2+ special infected at a time)...

Have I mentioned before how challenging the new special infected can be, even by themselves? Yeah, it can get pretty frustrating when they can constantly break-up a tight group formation more often than before...There was a time where I underestimated the Spitter's effective range from afar, and it still managed to burn the group; Now I underestimate the Spitter's other purpose when it's acid can force a group to split up to avoid the acid burn, especially in tight close-quarter areas where the survivors could be literally divided by the body of acid, leaving either half open to an infected assault...The acid burns through health quicker than a horde assault, and you can't shove acid away from you like you can the horde...Same thing with the Jockey; Although you can resist the direction it steers you to a certain extent, it can still drive a survivor right into an infected trap, and ultimately also break a survivor away from the group...

Oh, wait, did I say something about dying? Yeah, that happened with a Charger...Even though I saw it coming for us and I had a sniper rifle, I still can't get over how fast the Charger can run...It doesn't leave much of a buffer reaction time, and before I knew it, it had me split off from the group and all to itself, with the horde joining in on the gang-rape, adding to my death pummel...I got owned in a surprisingly quick time, and it doesn't help that it's attacks are stronger than the Hunter and Smoker and it has the third-highest HP of the special infected...Twice, a Charger has also, while up on the makeshift rafter deactivating the alarm, managed to knock someone of the group off the rafter and down below, forcing the rest of the group to abandon higher ground and chase after the pathetic survivor and Charger...

That makes three special infected whose primary attacks can directly and physically break a group together, including the Smoker, Charger, and Jockey, while the Spitter can also possibly indirectly force a group into two as well, making four...

Anyone who still thinks the survivors are getting too much of a buffer with some of the new weapons aren't taking into account the new tactics the special infected have on their side either...The game focuses on teamwork; Voluntary lone wolves tend to die, while involuntary lone wolves are that much more open to death, and that can change a lot of game dynamics when the infected can now effectively break through a close-formation defense...Alertness is still going to be the key defense in all of this; If those new special infected can be killed before they get a chance to utilize their primary attacks, then there shouldn't be much to worry about that...After that, all hell can possibly break loose, and that's even with your new-found ammo and melee weapons...

Versus is going to get a lot more interesting...

[plmko]

The new infected are pretty crap, just played the demo on advanced and I got take down the charger single handedly with an AK. You just jump sideways when it charges and its pretty much dead.

[Tamad]

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

And the infected...Well, the infected are still, as Bill once described them, "bastards"...This time, even more...I actually think the infected make the fight a bit more challenging...The common infected are a lot more aggressive, making a run for the survivors in a more responsive manner at first sight, though I'm not sure if that had to do with the daylight setting of The Parish...Either way, the uncommon infected, especially the riot infected with the ballistic armor, make things really annoying...Oh, the riot infected? Bulletproof front makes for persistence, and that gets annoying when they won't die so easily and you're already surrounded by the horde...Yeah, running and gunning isn't going to work with them...

I don't know if it's my imagination or not, but I've also noticed that the infected seem much faster on their feet compared to their original counterparts. I do agree that they're way more responsive to the survivor's presence, and even if you're a considerable distance away, those speedy little buggers will catch up to you even at full health, and slow you down so even more zombies will be able to catch up to you and beat you down. Riot zombies are also quite annoying in very panicky situations, like during the cresendo event or when your getting swamped by Special Infected. The other uncommon infected (mudmen, clowns, and hazmat zombies) don't sound too bad compared to the pain the riot zombies have put me through, but I can't really judge them until I see how much of a nuisance they can be. With all those tweaks to the common infected, uncommon infected, special zombies, and the fact that there's melee fatigue in all modes now, I think Valve is just trying to get rid of the idea of "ramboing" all together. A real shame too, since I had lots of fun moments racing my friends through campaign stages in the original game.

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

But the special infected is what makes it all the more challenging...The director really instills paranoia by sending at least two special infected at the same time at any time, even on normal, something that was almost left up to advanced and expert...And the new special infected really changed my gameplay style...Whereas I could go Rambo-mode and play the first game like a Counter-Strike match with no fear of the old special infected, the new special infected make for more annoyance...The Jockey only becomes a problem if it latches onto you, because that's when it can steer you away from teammates or even steer you into other infected...The Spitter can be a bitch if you don't pay attention, since I almost killed myself in a pool of it's acid when I wasn't aware I was doing so until 2 seconds later when I was almost close to going into the red on health...And the Charger is scary fast; If you have some distance, it's not a problem, but up-close, it charges faster than any survivor can run leaving little reaction time, and it becomes a problem to kill since it has more health than both the Hunter and Smoker combined...All three either reinforces the idea of teamwork or forces the team to break up depending on what happens...Maybe once I get used to their actions they won't be such a problem, but it's always a problem when the infected have new methods for which to decimate the survivors...

The novelty and the fear that the new Special Infected brought kind of wore off after playing through the campaign too many times to count, but they're still quite dangerous depending on the situation compared to the original unit of special infected, and especially now that they're teamed up. Jockys tend to be my least favorite of the bunch now, and most of the time I don't even hear them sneaking up on me and the next thing you know they're on my head and ready to take me to a far away lparadise that I'd rather not be in. Spitters aren't too bad, they're only problematic when you stuck in a very condensed area (alleyways or just places that aren't very open in general), when you're already dealing with a horde, or when you have a buddy who's downed. Chargers are the least threataning of the bunch in my opinion, as they're incredibly obvious, and are quite easy to dodge, even in panicky situations.Granted, the A.I. director hasn't really thrown me any competent Chargers, but I can tell they would be deadly if they do hit their mark, especially in a very open area like the park. I'm already shuddering at the thought of what pain these new infected will bring once they're able to be controlled by human players, and least for the first couple of weeks.

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

The Wandering Witch actually doesn't see like much of a problem at all...It provides the opportunity to actually walk around her, since she can't just block an important path anymore, and walking past an already walking Witch isn't that bad since it takes more to piss her off than before...I still wouldn't like the possible surprises the Wandering Witch could make when it comes up on a blind spot...Since I was playing offline single player, the team was still stupid when it comes to reacting with a Witch...A Wandering Witch walked up right to the survivors, and they just stood there as it got quickly pissed and attacked Nick...Stupid survivors...

I actually find the Witch more troublesome now that she's moving around rather than just sitting in one place. First off, the warning period that you get before a Witch begins her assault seems incredibly shortened, so you have a much smaller reaction time to get out of there when you're near a witch before she attacks. Secondly, I find it tough to distinguish her between normal zombies during bad situation ,and far too many times I've accidentaly shot her because I thought she was a zombie when there's a horde pummeling me, when I'm running or dealing with special infected, or when I'm hopped up on Adrenaline. I also find her crying much scarier this time around.

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

Speaking of survivors, it's not substantive at all, but I miss the old survivors...Bill was cool because he was an old Vietnam vet, Louis acted black, Zoey was hot, and Francis was an ass...I don't feel that same sort of connection with any of the new survivors, though maybe I also just need some growing on with this too...

But in other non-substantive stuff, the new looks for the old infected are more grotesque, especially the Smoker, ESPECIALLY the Smoker...Talk about disgusting, and cool...

I find it funny that the new characters were designed to have more personality and background, and thus they're supposed to be more likeable; however, I still don't care about them at all, even with their little interactions with each other. I suppose I will get used to them over time, but I would really still rather have the option to play as the original cast rather than this new one. Perhaps it will be implemented as DLC in the future, but honestly the farthest I see them going is just character skins.

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

Anyone who still thinks the survivors are getting too much of a buffer with some of the new weapons aren't taking into account the new tactics the special infected have on their side either...The game focuses on teamwork; Voluntary lone wolves tend to die, while involuntary lone wolves are that much more open to death, and that can change a lot of game dynamics when the infected can now effectively break through a close-formation defense...Alertness is still going to be the key defense in all of this; If those new special infected can be killed before they get a chance to utilize their primary attacks, then there shouldn't be much to worry about that...After that, all hell can possibly break loose, and that's even with your new-found ammo and melee weapons...

At this point, I can say that the odds are definitely stacked against the Survivors so much more than it was before. The new special infected provide more ways to split you up and even take you down when you're in a group, and the melee weapons are great... but personally I find them to be there just for fun and wouldn't use a weapon as a replacement for a gun. I also like how some of the new items have negative repercussion on the survivors, such as the Boomer Bile summoning a new horde along with any infected roaming the area, meaning that the situation could hurt you more than help you depending on when you use it.

Originally Posted by plmko

The new infected are pretty crap, just played the demo on advanced and I got take down the charger single handedly with an AK. You just jump sideways when it charges and its pretty much dead.

Well all special infected are pretty crap when they're alone.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Bah the alarm isn't too bad. So long as you keep an eye out and move you'll be fine. By the time you get to the platform it's so easy. The melee weapons also make it easy when dealing with the common zombies. The pan is great as it has a wide hit arc and when swinging back you can still kill. Since they don't use bullets it's effective against hordes.