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Asehpe · 2016-01-07, 22:21

Ah, Sayaka, my dear Sayaka, of all the Mahō Shōjo the one that is the most like myself, and the one whose fate made me suffer the most (since I have myself also watched from the shadows as my love interest warmed up for another guy).

I think a lot of the 'hate' (probably an exaggerated word, but still) that Sayaka gets from her dis-admirers really boils down to matters of personality. What kinds of personalities can you tolerate in the people around yourself? What kind of personalities rub you the wrong way, get bad reactions from you?

Sayaka is, to me, the symbol of courage, she is The Knight with the Sword (just as Mami is The Angel with the Shotgun, and Kyōko The Flame with the Spear, Homura The Mystery with the Shield... and Madoka The Goddess with the Bow and Arrow). People talk a lot about her flaws, which indeed exist and affected her negatively, but they forget her pluses because said pluses 'rub them the wrong way', making them see Sayaka as one of those do-gooders who moralistically and judgmentally decide who is 'good' and who is 'bad', who should be fought against and who can be an ally or a friend. I don't think this is true -- she is in fact better than many a person I have met in real life when it comes to the 'jumping to conclusions about others' department.

Consider, by the way, Kyōko's attraction to Sayaka. Being, after all, a seasoned veteran with a rather harsh outlook on life, someone who should despise precisely this kind of holier-than-thou do-gooders who don't understand that the world is a food chain where you either eat or are eaten. Yet there goes Kyōko, expressing a feeling of awe and respect at how Sayaka just kept standing up and charging again every time she, Kyōko, would knock her down. Sayaka, with all her 'flaws', Sayaka who was so full of insecurities inside, Sayaka who didn't want to face the fact that she was, yes, hoping that her selfless wish for Kyōsuke's arm to heal would have a rather selfish effect on their romantic relationship... this Sayaka was inspirational to Kyōko.

Just imagine what would have happened if Sayaka had a more cruel, more practical approach to the Mahō Shōjo business, centered only on what she wanted -- like Homura, for instance. Kyōko would then simply have fought her (and won, since she was stronger and more experienced). The battle in Episodes 5-6 would simply have been repeated once or twice, until Kyōko finally offed Sayaka. Why shouldn't she? Mitakihara city was, after all, prime territory...

It was precisely the complexities inside Sayaka that appealed to Kyōko, the idealism that she, Kyōko, also once used to have ('I can't believe I forgot I used to love stories where love and good would triumph...'). If Kyōko the Social Darwinist can see the good in Sayaka, the admirable and, yes, noble side in her (I like the word 'noble', despite the quite good arguments that were raised against it in a previous message in this thread), why do so many people fail to see it and take it into account when judging her flaws and mistakes?

Another thing most people don't take into account is how Sayaka herself would seem to agree with her harsh critics -- her 'I was stupid... so stupid...' (words I will never hear again without thinking of Sayaka) suggests awareness of the mistakes she made. Perhaps this is another instance or her lack of feeling of self worth, but I see that as showing the realization that her plight is at least partially the result of choices and interpretations that she could have made differently. There is no reason to believe that "good and evil have to balance each other out" (the actual equation relating them -- assuming that there even is such an equation -- might be quite different), concluding from a couple of jerks that the world "isn't worth fighting for" is quite a conceptual jump, even thinking that her status as a lich was so bad that she couldn't possibly have a normal relationship with Kyōsuke (for all I know he might have a completely different opinion... but nobody bothered to ask him). Doesn't this show that there is more to Sayaka than her unjustified assumptions?

Sayaka is very dear to me, and will always remain so. If she isn't to you, that is OK -- there are some kinds of people that do make me feel angry, too. In my moments of greater fairness, however, I do wish them happiness, because I don't think that they are the way they are just in order to piss me off, nor do I think that the things in them that anger me are the only things worthy of notice in their personality. Like all humans, they are more complicated than that.

(On a final note -- I also don't understand the dislike that many people feel for Kyōsuke Kamijō or for Hitomi Shizuki. To me, Kyōsuke is not a jerk at all... Maybe I say this only because I also have a friend who was a musician but had to give it up after an accident, so I can see how much meaning this person's life has lost because of that fact; I can therefore empathize with Kyōsuke on a more personal level. But frankly, I don't think he did anything to deserve being called a jerk. He certainly was quite absorbed in his own personal tragedy, but having observed family members fighting with cancer, I can see this happening quite easily. Are you, Mr Critic, sure that you would be thinking of those around you if you found yourself in such a soul-shattering situation as Kyōsuke? Feeling horrible and not paying attention to others is not the noble thing to do in this situation -- I'm sure Madoka would never do that --, but it hardly qualifies as 'being a jerk'. Trauma is trauma, and Kyōsuke had quite a large serving of it; more so than the average 14-year-old boy. I wonder how many people would have behaved better in his place.

Hitomi Shizuki certainly brought a lot of grief to Sayaka, but I don't see her behavior as being 'bad' in any moral sense. She did what she thought was right: she gave Sayaka time to make her move. Frankly, most 14-year-old girls I know (in fact, most women I know, period) would not have done that: based on the claim that all is fair in love and war, they would have tried to get their love interest right away, not wait politely for a friend to make their move. You may quibble about whether or not 24 hours was 'enough time', but I repeat, most people I know would have given 0 hours... I end up thinking that Hitomi is a quite thoughtful, balanced and fair person. Of course, her 'girls can't love girls!' thing is a different matter...)

2016-01-07, 22:21	Link #381
Asehpe Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: The Netherlands	Ah, Sayaka, my dear Sayaka, of all the Mahō Shōjo the one that is the most like myself, and the one whose fate made me suffer the most (since I have myself also watched from the shadows as my love interest warmed up for another guy). I think a lot of the 'hate' (probably an exaggerated word, but still) that Sayaka gets from her dis-admirers really boils down to matters of personality. What kinds of personalities can you tolerate in the people around yourself? What kind of personalities rub you the wrong way, get bad reactions from you? Sayaka is, to me, the symbol of courage, she is The Knight with the Sword (just as Mami is The Angel with the Shotgun, and Kyōko The Flame with the Spear, Homura The Mystery with the Shield... and Madoka The Goddess with the Bow and Arrow). People talk a lot about her flaws, which indeed exist and affected her negatively, but they forget her pluses because said pluses 'rub them the wrong way', making them see Sayaka as one of those do-gooders who moralistically and judgmentally decide who is 'good' and who is 'bad', who should be fought against and who can be an ally or a friend. I don't think this is true -- she is in fact better than many a person I have met in real life when it comes to the 'jumping to conclusions about others' department. Consider, by the way, Kyōko's attraction to Sayaka. Being, after all, a seasoned veteran with a rather harsh outlook on life, someone who should despise precisely this kind of holier-than-thou do-gooders who don't understand that the world is a food chain where you either eat or are eaten. Yet there goes Kyōko, expressing a feeling of awe and respect at how Sayaka just kept standing up and charging again every time she, Kyōko, would knock her down. Sayaka, with all her 'flaws', Sayaka who was so full of insecurities inside, Sayaka who didn't want to face the fact that she was, yes, hoping that her selfless wish for Kyōsuke's arm to heal would have a rather selfish effect on their romantic relationship... this Sayaka was inspirational to Kyōko. Just imagine what would have happened if Sayaka had a more cruel, more practical approach to the Mahō Shōjo business, centered only on what she wanted -- like Homura, for instance. Kyōko would then simply have fought her (and won, since she was stronger and more experienced). The battle in Episodes 5-6 would simply have been repeated once or twice, until Kyōko finally offed Sayaka. Why shouldn't she? Mitakihara city was, after all, prime territory... It was precisely the complexities inside Sayaka that appealed to Kyōko, the idealism that she, Kyōko, also once used to have ('I can't believe I forgot I used to love stories where love and good would triumph...'). If Kyōko the Social Darwinist can see the good in Sayaka, the admirable and, yes, noble side in her (I like the word 'noble', despite the quite good arguments that were raised against it in a previous message in this thread), why do so many people fail to see it and take it into account when judging her flaws and mistakes? Another thing most people don't take into account is how Sayaka herself would seem to agree with her harsh critics -- her 'I was stupid... so stupid...' (words I will never hear again without thinking of Sayaka) suggests awareness of the mistakes she made. Perhaps this is another instance or her lack of feeling of self worth, but I see that as showing the realization that her plight is at least partially the result of choices and interpretations that she could have made differently. There is no reason to believe that "good and evil have to balance each other out" (the actual equation relating them -- assuming that there even is such an equation -- might be quite different), concluding from a couple of jerks that the world "isn't worth fighting for" is quite a conceptual jump, even thinking that her status as a lich was so bad that she couldn't possibly have a normal relationship with Kyōsuke (for all I know he might have a completely different opinion... but nobody bothered to ask him). Doesn't this show that there is more to Sayaka than her unjustified assumptions? Sayaka is very dear to me, and will always remain so. If she isn't to you, that is OK -- there are some kinds of people that do make me feel angry, too. In my moments of greater fairness, however, I do wish them happiness, because I don't think that they are the way they are just in order to piss me off, nor do I think that the things in them that anger me are the only things worthy of notice in their personality. Like all humans, they are more complicated than that. (On a final note -- I also don't understand the dislike that many people feel for Kyōsuke Kamijō or for Hitomi Shizuki. To me, Kyōsuke is not a jerk at all... Maybe I say this only because I also have a friend who was a musician but had to give it up after an accident, so I can see how much meaning this person's life has lost because of that fact; I can therefore empathize with Kyōsuke on a more personal level. But frankly, I don't think he did anything to deserve being called a jerk. He certainly was quite absorbed in his own personal tragedy, but having observed family members fighting with cancer, I can see this happening quite easily. Are you, Mr Critic, sure that you would be thinking of those around you if you found yourself in such a soul-shattering situation as Kyōsuke? Feeling horrible and not paying attention to others is not the noble thing to do in this situation -- I'm sure Madoka would never do that --, but it hardly qualifies as 'being a jerk'. Trauma is trauma, and Kyōsuke had quite a large serving of it; more so than the average 14-year-old boy. I wonder how many people would have behaved better in his place. Hitomi Shizuki certainly brought a lot of grief to Sayaka, but I don't see her behavior as being 'bad' in any moral sense. She did what she thought was right: she gave Sayaka time to make her move. Frankly, most 14-year-old girls I know (in fact, most women I know, period) would not have done that: based on the claim that all is fair in love and war, they would have tried to get their love interest right away, not wait politely for a friend to make their move. You may quibble about whether or not 24 hours was 'enough time', but I repeat, most people I know would have given 0 hours... I end up thinking that Hitomi is a quite thoughtful, balanced and fair person. Of course, her 'girls can't love girls!' thing is a different matter...)