[Manga] Naruto Chapter 574 Discussion

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

if i were him i would have suspected that itachi worked with another. as powerful as itachi was, he could not take on all of the uchiha at once and sasuke should have realized this.

He did :/

Originally Posted by ronin myael

the guy killed his own brother! the brother who did nothing but to protect him. he hated him for the wrong reasons for a very long time.

Um, actually I think its pretty clear that Itachi deliberately set himself up to be killed. He helped killed his clan, replayed the slaughter of their parents in Sasuke's mind, taunted him years after making him believe him to be evil, goading him to come after him and even walked into the fight weakend by a disease. It sounds to me like Itachi felt guilty and wanted to die because of his last assignment. It really must have been an incredible burden for him to carry. I wouldn't blame Sasuke for hating Itachi for the wrong reasons especially considering Itachi did everything he could to hide the truth from him.

but there was no regret in sasuke even after he found out the truth.

Yet his facial expressions implied quite the contrary when learning the truth :/

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Which once again makes him less of a villain and Naruto's work much easier.

My point was that if Sasuke fights Naruto in his current state of the mind and no 3rd party interferes with the fight by revealing information about the Uchiha/Tobi/Itachi then it seems impossible for Naruto to do anything else than killing Sasuke. Of course it could be that Naruto makes some magic talk like in the case of Nagato, however in this case such a magic talk would be extremly lame, in case of Nagato it was somewhat ok, but not here. So either the lame Naruto-magic-talk or there's some other influence on Sasuke that helps Naruto's words and actions work on Sasuke. I prefer the latter, even if it means a brief meeting with Itachi,

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Unless Sasuke chooses to ignore Itachi for the 1,000th time and cry about hatred. Which would be bad writing.

and i say brief because any longer contact would obviously become something lame.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Kishimoto has worked hard to keep Sasuke from doing anything that could jeopardize his redemption. That is why he has become a very boring character. Even pulling a Nagato would be too much.

I think it wouldn't be too much, if everything bad is undone in the end, furthermore it's undone by Sasuke himself. This manga often explores the extreme of human behavior, and gets away with it. Take for example Gaara, who was a psycho child murderer, he killed the kids of his own village who would not play with him. Now he is one of the great heroes and the young ninja of his village love him, they completely forgot what happened in the past. The actions of his father and the older generation were blamed, he was redeemed.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

A Sasuke vs K12 fight actually has a greater possibility now because neither can kill each other.

I think it has much less chance if they cannot fight, because if they attack him then Sasuke not killing them seems a very stupid plot. They have orders to attack him, as an akatsuki member, he killed samurai guys who attacked him, he said he won't go around killing konoha ninja, but if they attack him he should fight back as a villain has to, that is kill them. So i think Kishimoto will avoid such stupid situations if it cannot be undone. And i think there are ways to undo deaths, for right now Tobi is cornered, what if he uses the chakra he gathered from kyuubi and 8-tails and the other 7 to make a small version of infinite tsukiyomi which affects only the battlefield. He would de that not only to capture Naruto but if Kabuto makes a move on Sasuke he would also do it to avoid Kabuto capturing Sasuke, in that case Sasuke and his opponents would be trapped in a genjutsu and all the killings Sasuke did could turn out to be illusions. So there you have Sasuke killing people like Hinata without any real consequences.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

I wouldn't blame Sasuke for hating Itachi for the wrong reasons especially considering Itachi did everything he could to hide the truth from him.

Sasuke hated Itachi for the right reasons, if anything he loves him again for wrong ones now.
I mean "he did nothing to protect him". Yeah sure, and beat him up, mindraped him twice, put him in a coma, killed their entire family, destroyed his life and planned to brain-wash him.
But it was all out of some kind of twisted love so apparently it's ok.

[gohanhd]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Sasuke hated Itachi for the right reasons, if anything he loves him again for wrong ones now.
I mean "he did nothing to protect him". Yeah sure, and beat him up, mindraped him twice, put him in a coma, killed their entire family, destroyed his life and planned to brain-wash him.
But it was all out of some kind of twisted love so apparently it's ok.

He did seal orochimaru from sasuke, by the way what do you mean by brain wash....(cant think of anything that comes to mind)

[GDB]

The crow, obviously.

[gohanhd]

Forgot about that, but that was just for if naruto could not stop him.

So what do you think Itachi should of done instead? (by the way ignor this if this is the wrong place for this)

[solidguy]

so no sasuke blasting kirins left, right and centre on the alliance? and here i was loking forward to tenten getting her comeuppance

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by gohanhd

Forgot about that, but that was just for if naruto could not stop him.

No, that was set on display of Itachi's eyes which he believed Sasuke would take in any cases. Itachi intended to cover all his bases and as soon as Naruto would see his eyes, Sasuke would be brainwashed into following Itachi's steps.

So what do you think Itachi should of done instead? (by the way ignor this if this is the wrong place for this)

There is really much to tell about this but regardless of the facts, the author obviously wants to portray Itachi as a tragic yet heroic figure instead of the twisted and half demented abuser I feel he ended up with.
My point is that I always find funny how many people thinks Sasuke should ignore everything that have been done to him and his own to live happily in lalaland just because Itachi wanted to -and yet usually the same people think no one should forgive and forget what Sasuke has done because... Well because he's a little shit.

Anyhow Sasuke is supposed to be a big mass of hatred but really Kishimoto's unwillingness to make him go all the way makes his wrath quite mild. The guy won't kill anyone from Konoha and since he can't tell Konoha ninja from other now that they all have the same headband he probably won't kill anyone period and all that just because he told Naruto he wouldn't whereas he had no reason whatsoever to do that and even less reason to keep his words.
Truth be told the whole new Sasuke persona is completely forced, the fact of the matter is that the author had backed himself in a corner with the character. He had made him too independant from Naruto's ideology and too successfull in walking his own path to the point where Naruto's obssession with saving him didn't make any sense since Sasuke didn't need saving and couldn't care less about Naruto either ways.

But Naruto is always right no matter what so what happen? Sasuke starts laughing maniacally and decide suddenly that killing Naruto takes priority over his revenge.
Why? Who cares why! I pray Thee, Savior Naruto, keep me in Thy love For Thou art all to me, and I am Thine!

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Hunter

But Naruto is always right no matter what so what happen? Sasuke starts laughing maniacally and decide suddenly that killing Naruto takes priority over his revenge.
Why? Who cares why! I pray Thee, Savior Naruto, keep me in Thy love For Thou art all to me, and I am Thine!

I like sasuke's character for the most part and I don't have a problem with his liking itachi again. it's true that what itachi did was twisted, but he was also twisted into thinking that way by the konoha elders.

that last part i quoted is one of my few problems with his character. i dont get why he would do that either. i actually forgot about it for a while because it's so dumb. i thought he was going to go after the elders which would have made much more sense. i guess him and naruto had that rivalry since they were young, but i think his new feelings about itachi and his clan should clearly take precedence over anything else. its just too convenient to have him not be in a position to kill konoha ninja.

my hope is that he does kill naruto by taking the kyuubi out. and then of course naruto would be revived somehow, but then sasuke can continue being bad and then hopefully do some more bad things. although since naruto would be revivied, it would be easier for everyone to forgive sasuke once all is said and done, especially if naruto forgives him which he would.

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

I like sasuke's character for the most part and I don't have a problem with his liking itachi again. it's true that what itachi did was twisted, but he was also twisted into thinking that way by the konoha elders.

that last part i quoted is one of my few problems with his character. i dont get why he would do that either. i actually forgot about it for a while because it's so dumb. i thought he was going to go after the elders which would have made much more sense. i guess him and naruto had that rivalry since they were young, but i think his new feelings about itachi and his clan should clearly take precedence over anything else. its just too convenient to have him not be in a position to kill konoha ninja.

my hope is that he does kill naruto by taking the kyuubi out. and then of course naruto would be revived somehow, but then sasuke can continue being bad and then hopefully do some more bad things. although since naruto would be revivied, it would be easier for everyone to forgive sasuke once all is said and done, especially if naruto forgives him which he would.

Sasuke still cared about Itachi even before he learned the truth about Itachi, you could see this when Sasuke was smiling a lot while fighting Itachi since before Sasuke rarely smiled.

If Naruto loses 9 tails then all that biju control training would seem a bit pointless but its possible Naruto will lose 9 tails.

Naruto dying for Sasuke is probably the most effective way to make Sasuke "good" and Naruto could be revived by kakashi if he learned Chiyo's jutsu.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Itachi intended to cover all his bases and as soon as Naruto would see his eyes, Sasuke would be brainwashed into following Itachi's steps.

The crow didn't activate until the moment Itachi began to attack Naruto with MS eyes, before that they were talking peacefully. It seems obvious that it was set to activate only if Sasuke attacks Naruto.

[milan kyuubi]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

It seems obvious that it was set to activate only if Sasuke attacks Naruto.

Actually it was meant to be activated the moment Naruto saw Itachi's ms (which now Sasuke has). It would have appeared the moment Naruto saw Sasuke's ems. Even if Sasuke wasn't attacking Naruto.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Actually it was meant to be activated the moment Naruto saw Itachi's ms (which now Sasuke has). It would have appeared the moment Naruto saw Sasuke's ems. Even if Sasuke wasn't attacking Naruto.

Didn't remember that explanation part. Sure, it could be that Naruto sees Sasuke's EMS for the first time when Sasuke attacks Tobi with it, at a time when Naruto and Sasuke are one team again, and while the crow comes out and hits Sasuke with it's genjutsu Tobi takes advantage of that moment and defeats both Naruto and Sasuke, thus Itachi causes the end of the world

[GDB]

But if Sasuke is attacking Tobi, I don't think "protect Konoha" would cause him to stop. If anything, it'd make him attack more.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by GDB

But if Sasuke is attacking Tobi, I don't think "protect Konoha" would cause him to stop. If anything, it'd make him attack more.

It would be like Sasuke gets hit in the head with a stone, then he thinks "I must protect Konoha! wait... i was just doing that right now... strange..." While Naruto gets taken by Tobi because he was busy vomiting out a crow.
Then the crow vomited out a Frog, then the frog inverse-summoned Naruto back. I guess that can also be a happy ending after all

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Utsune

The ORO data could be either (I'm gonna be stating the obvious here) things that we know already - eg. Sharin-Rinne relation - or something not yet known - new jutsu, Tobi's ID, ways to control the bijuu etc. I can't help but to think the fact that Suigetsu suggests they should take it to Sauce-K means that it has something do with him, and if that were the case then the information could be Sharingan/Uchiha clan-related. Then again, it could as well be a trap by ORO to revive himself as a of people are saying.

I'm not completely ruling out any of those ideas, but whatever it is Suigetsu was able to immediately piece together how important it was. Suitgetsu isn't dumb, but information like the Rinnegan-Sharingan relationship or Tobi's true identity should require some prior knowledge of concepts Suigetsu shouldn't have any real understanding about in order to piece together how'd they'd be useful in a war.

I'm leaning more towards a powerful jutsu, or maybe the location of some lost artifact (we know Oro was already searching for some like the Yata no Kagami and the Totsuka Tsurugi, maybe he actually discovered others). It might even be a trap like someone suggested (though that seems like a long shot to me). My biggest question would be if this data is real--then does Kabuto know about it? It must be BIG if Oro kept it secret from even Kabuto.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I think it wouldn't be too much, if everything bad is undone in the end, furthermore it's undone by Sasuke himself. This manga often explores the extreme of human behavior, and gets away with it. Take for example Gaara, who was a psycho child murderer, he killed the kids of his own village who would not play with him. Now he is one of the great heroes and the young ninja of his village love him, they completely forgot what happened in the past. The actions of his father and the older generation were blamed, he was redeemed.

It's easier to buy Gaara's turnaround. He was unstable largely due to the Shukaku, who was feeding on his subconscious. He definitely was sadistic but a lot of times, it was like Gaara was in a state of delusion and/or confusion when he attacked, trying to please his "mother" and such.

Gaara's rage was more or less a case of demon possession. It's a lot easier to believe that someone like that can get a good bonk on the head and suddenly snap out of it. While his demon wasn't literally exorcised, it was pretty clear that the root of Gaara's problem was not realizing he didn't have to give in to his bijuu. Once he discovered that fighting Naruto he was basically "cleansed" I guess you could say.

No doubt Sasuke has issues too, but he's not struggling with a demon in his head. His actions are insane, but they're deliberate and thought out. He chose the path he's on weighing each decision. Unlike Gaara who just needed someone to show him another way, Sasuke rejected all understanding or support. He's not like Pain, who believed he worked for a greater good. Sasuke's out to serve his own personal justice, damned if it's right or wrong. It's hard for me to imagine exactly how someone like that realistically has a sudden change of heart. Frankly, the only way it would believable for me is if the change was very gradual. For awhile it looked like Kishi was taking this approach before he decide to make Sasuke the antichrist. I guess if he meets Itachi it could plant the seeds for a change, but still I wouldn't be satisfied if nothing else happened between that and when he finally confronts Naruto.

I think it has much less chance if they cannot fight, because if they attack him then Sasuke not killing them seems a very stupid plot. They have orders to attack him, as an akatsuki member, he killed samurai guys who attacked him, he said he won't go around killing konoha ninja, but if they attack him he should fight back as a villain has to, that is kill them.

If Kishi can have Pein slaughtering no-names left and right yet somehow manage not to lethally harm Hinata, he can have Sasuke spare the Konoha kids. With Susanoo he's powerful enough to easily defeat or avoid them without killing them. I mean, with that he could just walk by them if he wanted. What would they do? That doesn't work, a quick genjutsu and they're all catatonic. He's going to continue to rack up a huge body count of Zetsu's but I'd be surprised if he buries even one alliance nin.

[james0246]

Chapter 575 thread has been opened. Please move all relevant discussions to the new thread.